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Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516:1716:2243]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Fledermaus said:
And why do you keep quoting George Mason?

Hmmmm?

Do you not understand the concept of " whole"?

I consider myself part of the whole that the phrase "Whole people " refers to.

You don't?
Click to expand...

Because it is obvious, to everyone but the fantastical right wing; the whole People are the Militia. Well regulated Militia of the whole People are necessary to the security of a free State.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Crimefree said:
Which you have just proven is not the people. The militia is ONLY all able bodied people.
Click to expand...

nothing but diversion?

all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.

the right of the People who are well regulated militia, to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed by all of the other ones.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Crimefree said:
You don't know that for sure and I'll net you have not checked Sumerian tablets on the subject.
Click to expand...

Yes - I know that for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_and_legal_rights

The concept of natural law is closely related to the concept of natural rights. During the Age of Enlightenment, the concept of natural laws was used to challenge the divine right of kings, and became an alternative justification for the establishment of a social contract, positive law, and government – and thus legal rights – in the form of classical republicanism.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

danielpalos said:
socialism starts with a social Contract.

our form of federal government recognizes the concept of natural rights.
Click to expand...

We also recognize God. Statements of belief in a belief are still just beliefs.
 
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

danielpalos said:
do a google search yourself, or stop using dictionary definitions of socialism.
Click to expand...


At this point I know you were just trying to get the last word to salvage your pride. Go ahead and have it , but I know and you know that I won.

You must provide actual legal evidence that "the people" refers only to the militia. As the right is given to the people, not the militia, and you are claiming different...burden of proof is on you to find precedent. You can't.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

danielpalos said:
Because it is obvious, to everyone but the fantastical right wing; the whole People are the Militia. Well regulated Militia of the whole People are necessary to the security of a free State.
Click to expand...

If the "whole people" are the militia, then the "whole people" shall own military weapons.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

danielpalos said:
Whenever he claims socialism about any degree of democratic control of the means of production. Socialism starts with a Social Contract.
Click to expand...

Ummm

Social Contract =/= Socialism.

The concept of Social Contract predates the concept of socialism.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

haymarket said:
rights and abilities are two different things.

A right is a protected behavior that one may exercise with the protection of government. An ability is a mere function of an organism which they are able to do because they can physically do it. As an example: we have the ABILITY to speak. The right to speak and not suffer any consequences from the government for what you say is a RIGHT.
Click to expand...

while that is your opinion..i have already posted my link many times and it says this about rights ,[rights are exercised] which are unwritten law.


Unwritten Law - Dictionary definition of Unwritten Law | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

UNWRITTEN LAW


Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

Most laws in America are written. The u.s. code, the code of federal regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

prac·tice
ˈpraktəs/Submit
noun
1.
the actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method as opposed to theories about such application or use.
"the principles and practice of teaching"
synonyms: application, exercise, use, operation, implementation, execution More


tra·di·tion
trəˈdiSH(ə)n/
noun
the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way.
"every shade of color is fixed by tradition and governed by religious laws"
synonyms: historical convention, unwritten law, mores; More
a long-established custom or belief that has been passed on in this way.
plural noun: traditions
"Japan's unique cultural traditions"
synonyms: custom, practice, convention, ritual, observance, way, usage, habit, institution; formalpraxis

cus·tom
ˈkəstəm/Submit
noun
1.
a traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time.
"the old English custom of dancing around the maypole"
synonyms: tradition, practice, usage, observance, way, convention, formality, ceremony, ritual; More

us·age
ˈyo͞osij,ˈyo͞ozij/Submit
noun
the action of using something or the fact of being used.
"a survey of water usage"
synonyms: use, utilization, operation, manipulation, running, handling
"the usage of equipment"
the way in which a word or phrase is normally and correctly used.
plural noun: usages
synonyms: phraseology, parlance, idiom, way of speaking/writing, mode of expression, style; idiolect
"the intricacies of English usage"
habitual or customary practice, especially as creating a right, obligation, or standard.
synonyms: custom, practice, habit, tradition, convention, rule, observance; More
 
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Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Master PO said:
while that is your opinion..i have already posted my link many times and it says this about rights ,[rights are exercised] which are unwritten law.


Unwritten Law - Dictionary definition of Unwritten Law | Encyclopedia.com: FREE online dictionary

UNWRITTEN LAW


Unwritten rules, principles, and norms that have the effect and force of law though they have not been formally enacted by the government.

Most laws in America are written. The u.s. code, the code of federal regulations, and the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure are three examples of written laws that are frequently cited in federal court. Each state has a similar body of written laws. By contrast, unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.

prac·tice
ˈpraktəs/Submit
noun
1.
the actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method as opposed to theories about such application or use.
"the principles and practice of teaching"
synonyms: application, exercise, use, operation, implementation, execution More


tra·di·tion
trəˈdiSH(ə)n/
noun
the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way.
"every shade of color is fixed by tradition and governed by religious laws"
synonyms: historical convention, unwritten law, mores; More
a long-established custom or belief that has been passed on in this way.
plural noun: traditions
"Japan's unique cultural traditions"
synonyms: custom, practice, convention, ritual, observance, way, usage, habit, institution; formalpraxis

cus·tom
ˈkəstəm/Submit
noun
1.
a traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time.
"the old English custom of dancing around the maypole"
synonyms: tradition, practice, usage, observance, way, convention, formality, ceremony, ritual; More

us·age
ˈyo͞osij,ˈyo͞ozij/Submit
noun
the action of using something or the fact of being used.
"a survey of water usage"
synonyms: use, utilization, operation, manipulation, running, handling
"the usage of equipment"
the way in which a word or phrase is normally and correctly used.
plural noun: usages
synonyms: phraseology, parlance, idiom, way of speaking/writing, mode of expression, style; idiolect
"the intricacies of English usage"
habitual or customary practice, especially as creating a right, obligation, or standard.
synonyms: custom, practice, habit, tradition, convention, rule, observance; More
Click to expand...

Not one thing there impacts anything I have said about natural rights being a theory and belief.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

haymarket said:
Not one thing there impacts anything I have said about natural rights being a theory and belief.
Click to expand...

you did not even look at it, and you know why?........... because you just didn't want to read it.



unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.



prac·tice
ˈpraktəs/Submit
noun
1.
the actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method as opposed to theories about such application or use.
"the principles and practice of teaching"
synonyms: application, exercise, use, operation, implementation, execution More

rights are exercised

you :failpail:
 
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Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Master PO said:
unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.
Click to expand...

Well it's a good thing we still have due process. You know, there's a section in the link you posted about what the various forms unwritten law takes:
In the United States, unwritten law takes on a variety of forms. In constitutional law the Supreme Court has ruled that the due process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution protects the right to privacy even though the word privacy is not mentioned in the written text of the Constitution. In commercial law the uniform commercial code permits merchants to resolve legal disputes by introducing evidence of unwritten customs, practices, and usages that others in the same trade generally follow. The entire body of common law, comprising cases decided by judges on matters relating to torts and contracts, among other things, is said to reflect unwritten standards that have evolved over time. In each case, however, once a court, legislature, or other government body formally adopts a standard, principle, or maxim in writing, it ceases to be an unwritten law.
Click to expand...

I know that some of the unwritten law which we're talking about involves Supreme Court rulings. But what about the second part about commercial law, "usages that others in the same trade generally follow." That law pertains to exchanges that take place within a particular trade, not in the environment surrounding that trade. Therefore, if an environmental law is passed which prohibits the use of a certain type of boat, it is not a valid legal defense to simply say "well, I've always used this boat, and everyone uses this boat, so it's our law, which makes it the law."

Unwritten rules which are commonly understood by everyone, or for which there exist precedent are good candidates for law. On the other hand, cosa nostra is not a good candidate for unwritten law.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Celebrity said:
Well it's a good thing we still have due process. You know, there's a section in the link you posted about what the various forms unwritten law takes:


I know that some of the unwritten law which we're talking about involves Supreme Court rulings. But what about the second part about commercial law, "usages that others in the same trade generally follow." That law pertains to exchanges that take place within a particular trade, not in the environment surrounding that trade. Therefore, if an environmental law is passed which prohibits the use of a certain type of boat, it is not a valid legal defense to simply say "well, I've always used this boat, and everyone uses this boat, so it's our law, which makes it the law."

Unwritten rules which are commonly understood by everyone, or for which there exist precedent are good candidates for law. On the other hand, cosa nostra is not a good candidate for unwritten law.
Click to expand...

the only point that was never made is that rights are unwritten law.....privileges = civil rights/legal rights which has not been spoken about here are written law and created by government.

what government creates it has control, power over, unwritten law government does not create and no power over.

the paragraph above which dealt with my posting was ......., stating that right to privacy is not part of the text of the constitution and is unwritten law, yet the USSC recognizes the right to privacy exists as a right of the people without government, because the right was not created by the congress.

the other dealing with Montana, was simply the supreme court of Montana, stating in the case R.C.M. 1947, § 93-1001-11, defines unwritten law as follows: "Unwritten law is the law not promulgated and recorded, as mentioned in section 93-1001-8, but which is, nevertheless, observed and administered in the courts of the country.

which was the only point being made, it has nothing to do with the details of the estate.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Master PO said:
you did not even look at it, and you know why?........... because you just didn't want to read it.



unwritten law consists of those customs, traditions, practices, usages, and other maxims of human conduct that the government has recognized and enforced.



prac·tice
ˈpraktəs/Submit
noun
1.
the actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method as opposed to theories about such application or use.
"the principles and practice of teaching"
synonyms: application, exercise, use, operation, implementation, execution More

rights are exercised

you :failpail:
Click to expand...

Nothing you said there has anything to do with my observations that natural rights are a theory which has served its purpose and is now old hat.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

haymarket said:
Nothing you said there has anything to do with my observations that natural rights are a theory which has served its purpose and is now old hat.
Click to expand...

thats true based on your observations, however my links counters your links, by saying thats its not theory, and i have the dictionary, law, history, the federal government/state governments on my side...who's on yours?
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Master PO said:
which was the only point being made, it has nothing to do with the details of the estate.
Click to expand...
It's not necessary to cite that Supreme Court opinion in order to define what unwritten law is.

In fact, I prefer your interpretation that rights are unwritten law. It's vaguely substantiated by Spoya, just like the interpretation of the Second Amendment by Scalia.

Scalia was kind of like a layman, really, he didn't belong on the Supreme Court if he was going to make such bigoted and ridiculous assertions. Other justices could have abstained or not joined the dissenting opinion in Heller. They didn't, because the Second Amendment is written law, not unwritten law, and it doesn't deal with God given rights.

Furthermore, unwritten law according to the definition you mentioned from Spoya could include adultery. The Bible says it's a sin, so therefore it is customarily illegal in heavily religious communities. Even though Montana is demographically more of a God forsaken patch of wilderness, cheating is still commonly regarded as bad. So, it should be illegal right? :lol:

You see, rights are only half of what unwritten law means. Unwritten law could also prohibit liberty. But I prefer your unsubstantiated point that was just made, because it sounds more cordial.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Celebrity said:
It's not necessary to cite that Supreme Court opinion in order to define what unwritten law is.

In fact, I prefer your interpretation that rights are unwritten law. It's vaguely substantiated by Spoya, just like the interpretation of the Second Amendment by Scalia.

Scalia was kind of like a layman, really, he didn't belong on the Supreme Court if he was going to make such bigoted and ridiculous assertions. Other justices could have abstained or not joined the dissenting opinion in Heller. They didn't, because the Second Amendment is written law, not unwritten law, and it doesn't deal with God given rights.

Furthermore, unwritten law according to the definition you mentioned from Spoya could include adultery. The Bible says it's a sin, so therefore it is customarily illegal in heavily religious communities. Even though Montana is demographically more of a God forsaken patch of wilderness, cheating is still commonly regarded as bad. So, it should be illegal right? :lol:

You see, rights are only half of what unwritten law means. Unwritten law could also prohibit liberty. But I prefer your unsubstantiated point that was just made, because it sounds more cordial.
Click to expand...


i cited the Montana court, because of its interpretation per a certain number of its code........and thats all., why do you keep going deeper into Montana?

the second amendment does not grant a right, it only recognizes rights, it is a restriction on federal power, as are all the amendments.

this has nothing to do with Montana and how it would treat adultery, ...i don't know why you cannot just understand what there code is saying, and nothing else, which is Montana's interpretation of that unwritten law is.


this all there is to it R.C.M. 1947, § 93-1001-11, defines unwritten law as follows: "Unwritten law is the law not promulgated and recorded, as mentioned in section 93-1001-8, but which is, nevertheless, observed and administered in the courts of the country.

unwritten law does into prohibit liberty.
 
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Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Master PO said:
thats true based on your observations, however my links counters your links, by saying thats its not theory, and i have the dictionary, law, history, the federal government/state governments on my side...who's on yours?
Click to expand...

Your links cannot counter reality. Natural rights are a theory that some have adopted as a belief. There is no counter to that reality.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

haymarket said:
Your links cannot counter reality. Natural rights are a theory that some have adopted as a belief. There is no counter to that reality.
Click to expand...

Approach a lion and find out if self-defence is a theory. Please we all want to know.

And crap is no counter to reality.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Crimefree said:
Approach a lion and find out if self-defence is a theory. Please we all want to know.

And crap is no counter to reality.
Click to expand...

But reality is a great counter to your crap. And here is more of it.

Self defense when attacked is an ability shared by almost all living organisms. It is not a right unless written into law and protected by ones government.

Like many others in these discussions, you confuse an ABILTY with a RIGHT. They are two different things.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516]

Unwritten laws are what evolved as requirements for peaceful existence as groups. They seek to offer protection to one and all of the group from the aberrants of society. They go back to our earliest civilisations and are not written because there was no writing. In every case these laws seek to protect the individual from harm by others be they monarchy, despot or "criminal".

Only those with some agenda deny the existence of our very first laws of subsistence as groups.

It is beyond idiotic to seek origins or these laws in monarchy or religion as they would have developed at village level. No animal including man needs a law to defend them-self. It is recognised by all life forms. Why do we have people who would deny this for the sake of removing those rights? The aberrants of society those laws seek to protects us from.
 
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