Why Gun Control Doesn't Work

[Hamish Howl]

do you take issue with a poster whose main "debating" involves uncaptioned pictures of people he wants us to infer are victims?

This entire thread is a toolbox.

It's a box. And it's full of tools.

 

[TurtleDude]

This entire thread is a toolbox.

It's a box. And it's full of tools.

power tools or manual?

 

[Rich2018]

power tools or manual?

Power tools: Almost as sexy as guns.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

If gun control doesnt work......why do we have any gun laws at all?

It keeps the honest citizens under control.

 

[Rich2018]

It keeps the honest citizens under control.

And what is the benefit of that ?

Are you saying that gun control prevents "honest citizens" from voting for other parties ?

 

[Linuxcooldude]

And what is the benefit of that ?

Higher crime.

 

[zsu2357]

And what is the benefit of that ?

Are you saying that gun control prevents "honest citizens" from voting for other parties ?

It just helps ensure that "honest citizens" say yes sir or no sir depending on what they are told to do.

 

[vegas giants]

It keeps the honest citizens under control.

So we should abandon all gun control?

 

[Rich2018]

Higher crime.

Sorry you misread, I said BENEFIT.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Sorry you misread, I said BENEFIT.

It's a benefit to the liberals, as that's who they are protecting rather than the average citizen.

 

[Rich2018]

It's a benefit to the liberals, as that's who they are protecting rather than the average citizen.

How is high crime of benefit to liberals ?

Low crime would mean less resources directed to law enforcement and therefore more resources would be available for social programs

Are you actually saying that high crime is some kind of vote winner ?

Try to think before posting.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

How is high crime of benefit to liberals ?

Low crime would mean less resources directed to law enforcement and therefore more resources would be available for social programs

Are you actually saying that high crime is some kind of vote winner ?

Try to think before posting.

You should ask the Democrats. Such as Harris who was for providing bail for BLM rioters.

 

[Rich2018]

You should ask the Democrats. Such as Harris who was for providing bail for BLM rioters.

I'm asking you and you can't answer

You merely parrot a laughably unsound diatribe against the Democrat party.

 

[Fledermaus]

Power tools: Almost as sexy as guns.

You don't need power tools. Manual is all you need.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

If gun control doesnt work you should be able to name me countries with lax gun control that have low gun deaths and low crime. By lax I mean laws you would like to have here if any.
I'll wait.

Switzerland before the EU forced them to adopt gun control.

BTW, gun deaths are irrelevant. It is overall homicide rates that count.

 

[Rich2018]

Switzerland before the EU forced them to adopt gun control.

BTW, gun deaths are irrelevant. It is overall homicide rates that count.

No, with regard to gun control, itself gun related homicides (circa 10k pa) and non-fatal, gun related injuries (circa 80k pa).

 

[Toggle Almendro]

No, with regard to gun control, itself gun related homicides (circa 10k pa) and non-fatal, gun related injuries (circa 80k pa).

That's silly. Having murder victims be killed with some other kind of weapon is a pointless achievement.

That's not what gun control is about. Gun control is about violating people's civil liberties, nothing more.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

In 1997, the Prime Minister appointed the Australian Institute of Criminology to monitor the effects of the gun buyback. The institute has published a number of papers reporting trends and statistics around gun ownership and gun crime.[41noted that the level of legal gun ownership in NSW increased in recent years, and that the 1996 legislation had little to no effect on violence.

Later stats showed that the 1996 gun law did have one impact on violence.

The 1996 gun law kicked off a massive years-long crime spree where Australia's armed and unarmed robbery rates were doubled.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Countries likes Australia prove gun control works.

It works at abolishing freedom, which is what it is designed to do.

Gun control doesn't do much else.

I would say more gun control, or at least more impactful and direct policy and legislative objectives, does decrease gun crime. Australia is a proven success in this area.

Having murder victims be killed with a different kind of weapon does nothing to save their lives.

A proven success at doing something with no meaning? So what?

That is not what the evidence suggests whatsoever.

Indeed. The evidence says that the 1996 gun law did have one effect.

It kicked off a massive years-long crime spree where Australia's rate of armed and unarmed robbery were doubled.

Copying and pasting the comments of one person in 2005 is hardly enough to support this sweeping claim that the gun control measures were largely ineffective. The more recent studies and evidence suggests otherwise.

More recent studies are bogus. Australia changed how they count crime in 2005, and subsequent stats are not comparable to stats from the 1990s.

The study found no impact on HOMICIDES not GUN HOMICIDES.

In other words, Australia gained zero benefits from losing their freedom. They gave up their freedom for nothing.

Having murder victims be killed with a different kind of weapon does nothing to save their lives.

Interesting how you think gun control is supposed to stop all crime.

That is because the only plausible benefit of gun control would be to save lives.

Zero reduction in the homicide rate means zero lives saved.

The only thing that Australia achieved was the loss of their freedom for no reason.

Once again this studies scope is huge. I am talking about the impact on gun related homicide and suicide rates not all homicide and suicide rates.
I have said it over and over again....I think it is unwise to think gun control stops all forms of violence. No, gun control limits gun violence.

In other words, gun control achieves nothing at all (beyond the loss of freedom).

Having people be killed "with a different kind of weapon" instead of "with a gun" does nothing to save their lives.

What I am saying, and many Americans like to deny this, is gun control does work.

It works if your goal is to abolish freedom. It doesn't do much else.

I guess it also works at increasing crime rates, as evidenced by the massive crime spree that Australia suffered from after 1996.

The US can take lessons from different parts of Australia's legislative and policy framework for guns.
A good start is looking at Australia's rules around gun ownership and the rules around purchases, training and costs.

Thanks but no thanks. America is not looking for a model on how to abolish freedom in our country.

Putin might be interested though.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Would you say your more concerned about your gun rights than the horrific healthcare system?

Yes. Because people are trying to violate my rights.

is nearly as outdated as the bible.

Freedom will never be outdated.

I wonder who wants to push this right now and into the future.....

The people of America want it. We like being free.

the people who own america....the gun industry.

Nonsense.

And every pro-gun supporter has bitten onto this and is getting played.

People who love freedom are not being played when they support freedom.

The cultural indoctrination of protection and self-defence is unfounded

No it isn't.

and this obsession with guns in every element of ones life, with little care about healthcare, the impact on children, the state of some cities in the US is concerning.

Why does it bother you that we are free?

I don't like when Americans think they understand gun laws in Australia and how they came to be.

Well, we do understand it.

They were not pushed on people, people wanted and supported it.

I hear many serfs tell me that they are happy with their lack of freedom.

Invariably they express quite a lot of bitterness at those of us who are still free.

Yes. Created, as in when the amendment was created. Enhanced, as in enhanced protections under the 2nd amendment over the past centuries. Adapted, as in the courts have adapted the meaning of amendment.

The Second Amendment did not create the right to keep and bear arms. It merely protects a preexisting right from infringement.

Enhanced, as in enhanced protections under the 2nd amendment over the past centuries. Adapted, as in the courts have adapted the meaning of amendment.

Upholding and enforcing the Constitution is not enhancing or adapting it.

The industries of America (big tech, firearms, big pharma) 'own' America. They direct policy, decisions and legislation within the USA.

Hardly.

Do you not think the gun industry want people to buy more guns?

Yes. But they don't care nearly enough about what kind of guns we buy.

Or at least they used to. After we bankrupted one of them they now pay lip service to us.

Do you not think the gun industry has excessive influence (like big tech and big pharma) over the American population and in essence makes the legislative and policy decisions?

No. They have no say in legislative and policy decisions at all.

The NRA controls that.

The right to bear arms has been enhanced through changes to policies, common law and statue law. For example; the DC handgun legislation was deemed unconstitutional in 2008.

Upholding and enforcing the Constitution is hardly enhancing it.

The interpretations of Supreme Court judges shows how the reading of the 2nd Amendment is adapted and changed.

Upholding and enforcing the Constitution is hardly adapting or changing it.

No. I just don't believe the right to bear arms should be enhanced any more.

We are not going to give up our freedom here in America.

I can already see the damage it has done.

Our freedom does not do any damage.

thank you for pointing out the us has a health and gun problem.

We do not have a gun problem.

 

[The Mark]

If gun control doesnt work......why do we have any gun laws at all?

This doesn't necessarily apply to gun laws, but why the HELL do you think the only laws made are those that work?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Copying and pasting the comments of one person in 2005 is hardly enough to support this sweeping claim that the gun control measures were largely ineffective. The more recent studies and evidence suggests otherwise.

More recent studies are bogus. Australia changed how they count crime in 2005, and subsequent stats are not comparable to stats from the 1990s.

It's been ten years since I last looked into Australian stats and my memory was faulty. The change in crime reporting did not impact homicide reporting. So the studies in question are not bogus -- or at least, not for the reason of the change in crime reporting.

That said, effectiveness at getting murder victims to be killed with a different kind of weapon isn't all that useful. The victim ends up just as dead no matter what kind of weapon is used to kill him. The only real achievement of gun control is the abolishment of freedom.

 

[Marrybore]

Watching that video, you can see how these gun grabbing pricks are replacing the term gun control with gun safety. They don't want more gun control laws, instead they want more gun safety legislation. They can't win in an honest debate, so they have to lie about what they really want.

How is making reference to "gun safety legislation" "lying"? You might as well accuse the "pro-life" movement of lying because of what they call themselves. Regardless of what you think of pro-lifers, the official motivation at least for the movement is not to oppress women as some might claim but rather to protect "innocent life".
I don't think "gun safety" is any more euphemistic or disingenuous than "pro-life" - in fact it might even be less so, considering it's a pretty straightforward term, rather than a "we're the good guys who oppose murder" name. Gun safety is literally what these advocates want to achieve.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Gun safety is literally what these advocates want to achieve.

But it isn't. Their agenda has nothing to do with any sort of safety.

These people just enjoy violating people's civil liberties, and that is the only reason why they pursue gun control.

 

[Marrybore]

But it isn't. Their agenda has nothing to do with any sort of safety.

These people just enjoy violating people's civil liberties, and that is the only reason why they pursue gun control.

Why would you assume this?