Why get married?

[Jerry]

Right. And married or not, you cannot determine their actual level of commitment or lack thereof.

There are people who get married and don't really mean it, but they're just liars. There are people who say that they are as commited as a marriade couple, but if that were true then they would be married, so they're liars. If you aren't married, you're not as committed as a married couple.

Is "spiritual marriage" recognized by the law?

You're still confused I see.

Yes, it is. One can just as easily commit to a person without a marriage contract as they can with it. And one can just as easily not commit when they sign the contract.

No it's not. You're legal marital commitment is nonexistent without a license.
A purley religious commitment requires that religious authority to recognize it.

Then why did you use the statement "as observed" or evidenced by others?

Because I didn't expect you to have such a deep level of incomprehension of the most basic concepts.

As does any actually commited relationship, with or without the pomp and circumstance. (minus the societal impact since neither have that)

Right. So you agree with me then. Any relationship, be it marriage or something else, affects and concerns more than just the people directly in the relationship.

I can "declare" my intentions without signing a contract. I don't need my partner to sign a piece of paper to know that he loves me.

I already made that clear (see references to "deep spiritual commitment/connection"). Good to see you still trying to catch up. Maybe one day you'll get it.

 

[Jerry]

Let's look at the difference between a couple who is married and a couple who are in a committed non-married relationship. Both can have rings. Both can have joint bank accounts. Both can live together. Both can have children together. Most things seem pretty identical. So why is a married relationship seen as more of a commitment than a non-married committed relationship. The reason that no one has mentioned, yet. Consequences and money. If you are married, getting a divorce requires lawyers, money, splitting assets, and other things that splitting up from a committed non-married relationship does not require. This is why people, often, wait much longer to get married than to just 'commit' to a relationship. This is why the commitment is stronger. The consequences of losing that relationship is larger.

I was trying to stay away from the money issue because it cheapens the conversation. Oh well.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I was trying to stay away from the money issue because it cheapens the conversation. Oh well.

Sorry. Can't avoid the reality of it. Money and consequences impact commitment.

 

[Jerry]

Sorry. Can't avoid the reality of it. Money and consequences impact commitment.

Along that line, though, when you marry you are telling your spouse that they automatically get to make medical decisions on your behalf and automatically get all your crap if you die.

Not so with boy/girlfriends.

Hay ladies, say your pregnant and get in a bad car accident, you trust your boyfriend to have the say over rather the doc gets to abort or not if the question was put to him to decide? If you do trust your boyfriend that much, then marry his azz so the hospitable doesn't call your mommy instead of him (next-of-kin status).

Now that's ****ing trust right there.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Along that line, though, when you marry you are telling your spouse that they automatically get to make medical decisions on your behalf and automatically get all your crap if you die.

Not so with boy/girlfriends.

Hay ladies, say your pregnant and get in a bad car accident, you trust your boyfriend to have the say over rather the doc gets to abort or not if the question was put to him to decide? If you do trust your boyfriend that much, then marry his azz so the hospitable doesn't call your mommy instead of him (next-of-kin status).

Now that's ****ing trust right there.

To some extent it really does come down to 'the bottom line'. The level of trust needed in money and legal matters in a marriage, far outweigh those needed in a non-married committed relationship.

As much as emotion may play into it, practicality tips the hand.

 

[rivrrat]

If you aren't married, you're not as committed as a married couple.

Incorrect. I most certainly can be.

No it's not. You're legal marital commitment is nonexistent without a license.

The legal aspect, yes. But not the actual commitment between the two individuals.

I already made that clear (see references to "deep spiritual commitment/connection"). Good to see you still trying to catch up. Maybe one day you'll get it.

And one can have that without a piece of paper "declaring" it.

 

[rivrrat]

If a couple were fully committed and legally able to marry why wouldn't they? I just don't get it. I know there are circumstances where not getting married is financially beneficial but outside of those circumstances I just don't get why people wouldn't marry if they were sincerely committed to one another.

I don't get why I SHOULD. Why should I get married? People don't need a piece of paper to "declare" a commitment. The ONLY reason to get married is financial. That's it. And if one has no financial need to get married, why should they?

And, as I've mentioned before... there shouldn't be any financial benefits anyway. The government should stay out of personal relationships.

 

[rivrrat]

Consequences and money. If you are married, getting a divorce requires lawyers, money, splitting assets, and other things that splitting up from a committed non-married relationship does not require. This is why people, often, wait much longer to get married than to just 'commit' to a relationship. This is why the commitment is stronger. The consequences of losing that relationship is larger.

Pre-nup nips that in the bud. Not having anything TO split up nips that in the bud too.

Of course it's much more of a hassle and headache to divorce, but that has nothing to do with the level of love and commitment between two individuals.

Along that line, though, when you marry you are telling your spouse that they automatically get to make medical decisions on your behalf and automatically get all your crap if you die.

Not so with boy/girlfriends.

Hay ladies, say your pregnant and get in a bad car accident, you trust your boyfriend to have the say over rather the doc gets to abort or not if the question was put to him to decide? If you do trust your boyfriend that much, then marry his azz so the hospitable doesn't call your mommy instead of him (next-of-kin status).

Now that's ****ing trust right there.

Actually, I'd want my parents to make those decisions. Not my spouse. Ever. Even if I did get married, I'd have paperwork drawn up to that effect. They are who is listed on my living will, and that won't change until they die.

 

[americanwoman]

Well marriage still means something to a great deal of people and so for them it changes it alot. I know in my family boyfriends and girlfriends are just that and nothing more. As a family we don't exactly commit until a marriage takes place but once someone marries into the family they are considered a full fledge member of our giant dysfunctional group.
.

I agree with this and didn't really understand it until I myself got married. Before I got married I was with my man for about 6 1/2 years and considered myself part of the family. But once we got married I wasn't just a part, I'm now in it.

I used to think marriage wasn't worth it for me, but after nervously taking the step, it gave me a complete turn around. I realized maybe I had seen couples fall apart around me, but I didn't have to be that way. I could take my own vows and I on my own could make it work.

I will say though I have always had respect for married couples and would never, ever even think of hooking up with a married man. Infidelity and deception ruined my parents marriage, and seeing how hurt my mom was, it was something I knew I could never do to a family. Because that's what marriage makes it, a family.

Hay ladies, say your pregnant and get in a bad car accident, you trust your boyfriend to have the say over rather the doc gets to abort or not if the question was put to him to decide? If you do trust your boyfriend that much, then marry his azz so the hospitable doesn't call your mommy instead of him (next-of-kin status).

Now that's ****ing trust right there.

That's a great point you bring up. I would trust my man with my life and my baby's life--- that's probably why I did decide to marry him

 

[missypea]

I don't get why I SHOULD. Why should I get married?

I don't think the reasons for marrying have anything to do with “should” so I agree with you.

People don't need a piece of paper to "declare" a commitment.

Gotta agree again. A piece of paper has nothing to do with the commitment you bring to a relationship.

The ONLY reason to get married is financial. That's it.

I have to disagree with this one. I think finances have pushed people to the alter just as many times as it has detered people.

Consequences and money. If you are married, getting a divorce requires lawyers, money, splitting assets, and other things that splitting up from a committed non-married relationship does not require. This is why people, often, wait much longer to get married than to just 'commit' to a relationship. This is why the commitment is stronger. The consequences of losing that relationship is larger.

Yes, I agree with that too.

 

[Jerry]

Incorrect. I most certainly can be.

If you are as committed as a married couple and committed in the same way, that's marriage, even if not legally.

The legal aspect, yes. But not the actual commitment between the two individuals.

I totally understand.

My mother in-law is married to my father in-law, but not legally. They don't legally marry because they're on state assistance for all their various medical issues, and (they ran the numbers) would be disqualified from everything if they did legally marry.

Funny....I just realized that I've been calling him my father *in-law* for all this time when they're not legally married....well what else do you call him.....

But hay, they couldn't have a ceremony in a church because the church is legally compelled to report all marriage ceremonies to the state. So, they had their own lil thing in the back yard with just a few friends & family, exchanged vows and rings, and *poof*, they're married.

The thing that I'm trying to make clear here is that the name of the relationship of deeply committed life partners is called marriage, so when you say that they don't have to be married, your saying that they're not deeply committed life partners but something else.

 

[Jerry]

Actually, I'd want my parents to make those decisions. Not my spouse. Ever. Even if I did get married, I'd have paperwork drawn up to that effect. They are who is listed on my living will, and that won't change until they die.

What's that about?

 

[rivrrat]

If you are as committed as a married couple and committed in the same way, that's marriage, even if not legally.

I understand what you're saying, but marriage today requires a legal contract. Commitment, devotion, love does not. But marriage does. This is what the gay marriage thing is all about.

I totally understand.

My mother in-law is married to my father in-law, but not legally. They don't legally marry because they're on state assistance for all their various medical issues, and (they ran the numbers) would be disqualified from everything if they did legally marry.

Funny....I just realized that I've been calling him my father *in-law* for all this time when they're not legally married....well what else do you call him.....

But hay, they couldn't have a ceremony in a church because the church is legally compelled to report all marriage ceremonies to the state. So, they had their own lil thing in the back yard with just a few friends & family, exchanged vows and rings, and *poof*, they're married.

The thing that I'm trying to make clear here is that the name of the relationship of deeply committed life partners is called marriage, so when you say that they don't have to be married, your saying that they're not deeply committed life partners but something else.

I get this too. My parents divorced when I was 18 and my sis was 13/14. Much to the amazement of people I relay this to, they never separated. Their divorce was on paper only. Only the immediate family really knew they divorced. Their relationship, their commitment, didn't change. Nothing changed. Except the legal aspect.

Then, a couple of years ago I re-married them for financial reasons. Their commitment, their relationship, didn't change.

But as far as the govt was concerned, when they divorced... they were no longer married.

 

[rivrrat]

What's that about?

My parents know me better than any other person on earth possibly could.

 

[Jerry]

I understand what you're saying, but marriage today requires a legal contract. Commitment, devotion, love does not. But marriage does. This is what the gay marriage thing is all about.

I get this too. My parents divorced when I was 18 and my sis was 13/14. Much to the amazement of people I relay this to, they never separated. Their divorce was on paper only. Only the immediate family really knew they divorced. Their relationship, their commitment, didn't change. Nothing changed. Except the legal aspect.

Then, a couple of years ago I re-married them for financial reasons. Their commitment, their relationship, didn't change.

But as far as the govt was concerned, when they divorced... they were no longer married.

My happy-space-cadet grandmother (she has very advanced Alzheimer’s) and my late grandfather got divorced over his gambling problem. My grandmother got tired of having to pay his debt and not food for the kinds. This is another divorce in paper only. To his last days he kept up the house and was involved with the family. He ended up dieing in that house with all his kids present at his bedside at the moment of death. Funny how things work out sometimes.

 

[1069]

The thing that I'm trying to make clear here is that the name of the relationship of deeply committed life partners is called marriage, so when you say that they don't have to be married, your saying that they're not deeply committed life partners but something else.

Or that you're a nonconformist who dislikes and distrusts traditional socio-religious institutions.

 

[Jerry]

Or that you're a nonconformist who dislikes and distrusts traditional socio-religious institutions.

Yaaayyy! :monkey It's my favorite game: Say the most random, unrelated sh!t that comes to mind. Thanks for starting 1069, is it my turn now, it's my turn now…..

The annual odds of dieing from falling out of your bed: 2 in a million. Fact.

Now you go again :2wave:

 

[Thorgasm]

Well marriage still means something to a great deal of people and so for them it changes it alot....

Yes, I understand what you are saying. People's perception of a relationship changes when they are married. At least that what people say. What they are doing is quite different. As you have stated, half of all new marriages end in divorce. So we can say that already 50% of these people fail the forever promise. Then I would ask you how many people have cheated and/or are cheating and remain(ed) married. I would guess half of the remaining 50% could fall into this category. Now we are at 25%. Let's say roughly 1 in 4 actually walk what they talk so to speak. I am sure you can find polls that people think marriage is special as you say (I would say over 80%).

My point is that you don't need to be married to perceive your relationship as a committed, monogamous relationship. Trust me, the ceremony doesn't hold magical powers. I am married. I have been just as committed and monogamous throughout our whole relationship. I consider my word a more "holy" institution than the govt. and society sanctioning my relationship. I don't require approval from society to be in a relationship. This is what I mean by philosophically, there is no reason to get married. If there were no special treatment from the govt., a relationship could function just as well without the label marriage.

The government however, does grant rights with the institution of marriage. That is my realistic reason for marriage.

I know, it is hypocritical of me to say that my relationship would be just the same if I weren't married, yet I am. Well, my wife has a say in our relationship and she wanted to get married in front of her family. Though I don't require the ceremony, they can be a very good time and I don't regret being married(usually:lol: ).

 

[Thorgasm]

Yaaayyy! :monkey It's my favorite game: Say the most random, unrelated sh!t that comes to mind. Thanks for starting 1069, is it my turn now, it's my turn now…..

The annual odds of dieing from falling out of your bed: 2 in a million. Fact.

Now you go again :2wave:

58.3% of all statistics are made up.:2razz:

 

[Jerry]

58.3% of all statistics are made up.:2razz:

Benjamin Franklin invented crop insurence. Fact.

 

[Panache]

Benjamin Franklin invented crop insurence. Fact.

There are old warriors and bold warriors, but there are no old, bold warriors. Fact

 

[Felicity]

There are old warriors and bold warriors, but there are no old, bold warriors. Fact

But there are old, bald warriors. FACT.

 

[Jerry]

But there are old, bald warriors. FACT.

The most common name in America is Second Street. Fact.

 

[Marilyn Monroe]

There is no point. Except for monetary reasons, i.e., tax breaks. (which the government shouldn't give, IMO)

Or unless you want to be sure that if your loved one dies you get all of his/her money... but that could be done with a will. So still no point.

The government shouldn't do a lot of things, but it does. Those supposed tax breaks can sometimes be a penalty.

I agree though, not much of a point to it. It's just a traditional thing. I'd say it's on the way out.

 

[Saboteur]

Before I was married I asked the same question. I've been married 8 years, I love my wife and she loves me. We're best freinds and our marriage ceremony was to strengthen that bond in front of our families and freinds.