Why do we condone pre-birth abortions and not post-birth abortions?

[Josie]

It is a human fetus, but it isn't a human being. If anything it's a underdeveloped human being.

So a human fetus isn't a separate individual?

 

[TheGoverness]

Because you kept saying a fetus isn't a human on the other thread, but you agreed with these pro-choicers who say that a fetus IS a human.

When I am saying human being, I mean a independent human being that does not rely on the mother for sustenance.

Of course a fetus is human, but it is still a prenatal human, which is different from a fully-functional human being.

 

[Josie]

When I am saying human being, I mean a independent human being that does not rely on the mother for sustenance.

Of course a fetus is human, but it is still a prenatal human, which is different from a fully-functional human being.

Then why did you repeatedly say a fetus WASN'T a human?

Of COURSE a fetus isn't a fully-functional human being. It's in the very early stages of life.

 

[TheGoverness]

Then why did you repeatedly say a fetus WASN'T a human?

Of COURSE a fetus isn't a fully-functional human being. It's in the very early stages of life.

Because I'm a moron and I didn't make that distinction more clear.

 

[Josie]

Because I'm a moron and I didn't make that distinction more clear.

Hahaha. Don't be too hard on yourself. It's too early to think about this topic.

 

[AGENT J]

Anybody else want to try and equate pre-birth-abortions to the made up term post-birth-abortions and fail?

I think only 3 people in this whole thread tried and they all failed and were proven wrong by facts and definitions? Anybody?

 

[RamFel]

Anybody else want to try and equate pre-birth-abortions to the made up term post-birth-abortions and fail?

I think only 3 people in this whole thread tried and they all failed and were proven wrong by facts and definitions? Anybody?

Whoa!

Since you have diverted from the chosen path you initially took, and have abandoned the counting game that you were so fond of, and now taken your case to your friends, and chosen the path of retreating and trying to regroup, it appears that you lose.

Heh,heh, heh.....nice.

 

[AGENT J]

Whoa!

Since you have diverted from the chosen path you initially took, and have abandoned the counting game that you were so fond of, and now taken your case to your friends, and chosen the path of retreating and trying to regroup, and have asked for support, it appears that you lose.

Heh,heh, heh.....nice.

what does this say besides more posted lies and you still cant support your failed and destroyed claims? :laughat:

sooo here we go lets watch you run and high tail again:
fact remains theres no such thing in relation to abortion and never will be by definition, this fact will never change. .
You let us know when you have ONE single fact that proves others wise . . one, until then your lie fails and your posts will continue to be destroyed.

Disagree? then i simply directly challenge you to post this facts that support your lie . . please do so in your next post
Its so funny when you post lies and get caught


who wants to bet this is dodged again? LMAO
opcorn2:

 

[year2late]

So a human fetus isn't a separate individual?

Actually separate the woman from the fetus and figure out if they really are separate individuals.

 

[Josie]

Actually separate the woman from the fetus and figure out if they really are separate individuals.

So you believe a fetus isn't a separate human?

TheGoverness --- same question.

 

[year2late]

So you believe a fetus isn't a separate human?

TheGoverness --- same question.

The fetus is human. I have said that a gazillion times.

It is not separate. Clearly and emphatically. If the fetus is separated from the mother, the mother can easily survive, the fetus cannot. At a certain point the fetus may survive outside the womb with prompt medical attention.

While in the uterus it clearly is not separate and depends on the biology of the mother to survive. This is clearly and emphatically different than a baby born that can depend on millions of different people to survive as it is no longer dependent on the circulation of the mother (the host)

But how many more times must I say that the fetus is human. Just not a person deserving of rights.

Now your question. How do you give a zygote, embryo, or fetus full personhood rights without taking away the rights of the mother?

 

[Josie]

The fetus is human. I have said that a gazillion times.

It is not separate. Clearly and emphatically. If the fetus is separated from the mother, the mother can easily survive, the fetus cannot. At a certain point the fetus may survive outside the womb with prompt medical attention.

While in the uterus it clearly is not separate and depends on the biology of the mother to survive. This is clearly and emphatically different than a baby born that can depend on millions of different people to survive as it is no longer dependent on the circulation of the mother (the host)

But how many more times must I say that the fetus is human. Just not a person deserving of rights.

I didn't mean "separate" as in not connected to it's mother's body. I meant "separate" as in it's not the mother's body - it has it's own body and is a separate human from the mother.

Now your question. How do you give a zygote, embryo, or fetus full personhood rights without taking away the rights of the mother?

You can't. The "rights of the mother" in this case is the right to kill the human inside her. I don't believe that should be legal except in very rare circumstances where the life of mother is truly in danger (ectopic pregnancy, for example).

 

[year2late]

I didn't mean "separate" as in not connected to it's mother's body. I meant "separate" as in it's not the mother's body - it has it's own body and is a separate human from the mother.



You can't. The "rights of the mother" in this case is the right to kill the human inside her. I don't believe that should be legal except in very rare circumstances where the life of mother is truly in danger (ectopic pregnancy, for example).

They share circulation. They are not separate. The presence of the fetus can be a serious threat to the woman. I was expected to have an easy pregnancy and delivery. When all was said and done, I had a lifethreatening illness and my kidneys and circulatory system were affected. My home was threatened due to lack of income for nearly 6 months. More superficially I lost out on a promotion that clearly was mine for the taking. But the primary issue was my health. Damned straight I should have autonomy over my own body to decide if I want to take that risk. And hell's bells....a woman with little resources, already on the fringe of poverty without the great access to health care that I had? Damned straight she should have the ability to make her own decisions .

But you answered it...you cannot give rights to a fetus without diminishing the rights of a woman. Good to know,

 

[Josie]

They share circulation. They are not separate.

Still two separate humans who are physically connected.

Curious --- why didn't you abort?

 

[Removable Mind]

So a human fetus isn't a separate individual?

By law, no. Person, Human Being, Individual, Child...The US Congress has created very specific definitions for. The yet to be born doesn't make the cut.

 

[Josie]

By law, no. Person, Human Being, Individual, Child...The US Congress has created very specific definitions for. The yet to be born doesn't make the cut.

Yes, I know. I wasn't talking about the legal aspects.

 

[year2late]

Still two separate humans who are physically connected.

Curious --- why didn't you abort?

Connected and requiring the circulatory system to grow. This connection can be at the peril of the woman. Luckily I survived. It was thought that I would have had an "easy" pregnancy and delivery. The only person who should accept the risks of pregnancy is the person who is pregnant. And think about this....many of the women who choose abortion have substandard access to health care. I survived my multiple issues because I had a great OBGYN and access to a top of the line medical center.

 

[minnie616]

What's wrong with me liking those posts?

I have no idea why some people get so bent out out of shape when another posts like.
Like means like not that we totally agree with all that the post said.
Or all interpretations of the post.

 

[minnie616]

Because you kept saying a fetus isn't a human on the other thread, but you agreed with these pro-choicers who say that a fetus IS a human.

It seems to me that you misunderstood what she said or are pretending to misunderstand what she said.

 

[minnie616]

So a human fetus isn't a separate individual?

Not according to US code.

An unborn is not a person/human being/individual/child under US code.

 

[RamFel]

what does this say besides more posted lies and you still cant support your failed and destroyed claims? :laughat:

sooo here we go lets watch you run and high tail again:
fact remains theres no such thing in relation to abortion and never will be by definition, this fact will never change. .
You let us know when you have ONE single fact that proves others wise . . one, until then your lie fails and your posts will continue to be destroyed.

Disagree? then i simply directly challenge you to post this facts that support your lie . . please do so in your next post
Its so funny when you post lies and get caught


who wants to bet this is dodged again? LMAO
opcorn2:

What it says buddy boy, is that you have just lost the debate.

I told you that I was not involved in your debate with the folks at Google who found the information. But here you are again, pestering me about my beliefs vs your total world view. Why haven't you done what I asked, and gone to google by now?

You ignored evidence like these:

1. “But “after-birth abortion” is a term invented by two philosophers, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva."
2. "Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be.
3. "They note that neural development continues after birth and that the newborn doesn’t yet meet their definition of a “person”.
4. "If a potential person, like a fetus and a newborn, does not become an actual person, like you and us, then there is neither an actual nor a future person who can be harmed, which means that there is no harm at all.
5. Giubilini and Minerva note that philosophers such as Peter Singer have presented arguments for neonaticide for many years.

and here's another one about Planned Parenthood.

6. A lobbyist for a regional division of Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion business in the United States, says a doctor and a mother should be allowed to decide to kill a newborn who survives an abortion..Ouch!

and here is the last of the things I found. There are probably millions of college students who all favor what YOU say does not exist. That means that they will carry their beliefs with them to their careers and jobs, and what you people are trying to hush, will one day be accepted by a majority of the voters.

So, not only are you wrong, you are dead wrong. You lose. You should quit coming to this site, or any site for being so wrong, and for your lack of heart. Because I think that you are secretly in favor of this. You love this new idea. you and the rest of your clan will reject my victory, which is why I don't like the left because they are full of s**t. Because they want it to happen to our country. And do you want to know what I suspect the future will bring? A dictatorship in America. Because they will probably get what they want. A license to kill. And when we lose the right to defend ourselves (lose the second amendment) we will probably all be herded into groups marked for termination. .

So do what I tell, and have told you for the last two or three posts, go to Google and read, because it does not matter what you think or want, post birth abortion does exist, and you should know what you are asking for.

Do your job!

 

[AGENT J]

1.)What it says buddy boy, is that you have just lost the debate.
2.)I told you that I was not involved in your debate with the folks at Google who found the information. But here you are again, pestering me about my beliefs vs your total world view. Why haven't you done what I asked, and gone to google by now?
3.)You ignored evidence like these:

A. “But “after-birth abortion” is a term invented by two philosophers, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva."
B. "Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be.
C. "They note that neural development continues after birth and that the newborn doesn’t yet meet their definition of a “person”.
D "If a potential person, like a fetus and a newborn, does not become an actual person, like you and us, then there is neither an actual nor a future person who can be harmed, which means that there is no harm at all.
E Giubilini and Minerva note that philosophers such as Peter Singer have presented arguments for neonaticide for many years.

4.) and here's another one about Planned Parenthood. A lobbyist for a regional division of Planned Parenthood, the largest abortion business in the United States, says a doctor and a mother should be allowed to decide to kill a newborn who survives an abortion..Ouch!

5.)and here is the last of the things I found. There are probably millions of college students who all favor what YOU say does not exist. That means that they will carry their beliefs with them to their careers and jobs, and what you people are trying to hush, will one day be accepted by a majority of the voters.

6.) So, not only are you wrong, you are dead wrong.
7.) You lose. You should quit coming to this site, or any site for being so wrong, and for your lack of heart. Because I think that you are secretly in favor of this. You love this new idea. you and the rest of your clan will reject my victory, which is why I don't like the left because they are full of s**t. Because they want it to happen to our country. And do you want to know what I suspect the future will bring? A dictatorship in America. Because they will probably get what they want. A license to kill. And when we lose the right to defend ourselves (lose the second amendment) we will probably all be herded into groups marked for termination. .
So do what I tell, and have told you for the last two or three posts, go to Google and read, because it does not matter what you think or want, post birth abortion does exist, and you should know what you are asking for.

8.) Do your job!

1.) nope, doesnt say that at all, theres no "facts" in it
2.) google has nothing to do with it either Facts > than you and random peoples opinion on line
3.) thats not FACTUAL evidence that makes it realate to abortion in the OP. FAIL thank you for further proving it
theres no "pregnancy" to abort therefore it fails by definition and facts
4.) which further shows the term are NOT related, you just proved facts right and yourself wrong.

5.) probably? there are in fact millions that belief in religion of one or another that doesnt mean thier god exists hahahahahah wow you make this so easy. People having beliefs doesnt make them fact or true or relate to a factual word. But this does explain how you get things so wrong and get destroyed so often. You have no idea what a fact is.

6.) you havent presented ONE thing that makes the facts wrong . . not ONE lmao . . there are ZERO facts in your post that make the made up term post birth abortion relate to pre birth abortion ZERO :laughat:
7.) how you present zero facts while we still have them all.

here read this slow, "pregnancy is over after birth" there fore theres factually no way to relate post birth abortion to pre birth abortion, there's no such thing based on those terms by facts and definition. Thank you for proving it by the way. I love when you make long posts and comelt own your self. How is it possible that you posts always fail this bad and why do you try to prop them up with posted lies? You are zero and lifetime against me and facts.

8.) I did i destroyed your lie and completely own your failed argument just got its ass handed to istelf :lamo

sooo here we go again

fact remains theres no such thing in relation to abortion and never will be by definition, this fact will never change. .
You let us know when you have ONE single fact that proves others wise . . one, until then your lie fails and your posts will continue to be destroyed.

Disagree? then i simply directly challenge you to post this facts that support your lie . . please do so in your next post
now wipe the egg off your face and try again
opcorn2:

 

[AGENT J]

anybody else want try and have their attempts destroyed by facts?

Anybody? can ONE SINGLE PERSON try and equate pre-birth-abortions to the made up term post-birth-abortions and use FACTS to make them equate?

Its funny that there are three people that dont even know what abortion is, by definition nothing after pregnancy can relate to it

opcorn2:

 

[RamFel]

1.) nope, doesnt say that at all, theres no "facts" in it
2.) google has nothing to do with it either Facts > than you and random peoples opinion on line
3.) thats not FACTUAL evidence that makes it realate to abortion in the OP. FAIL thank you for further proving it
theres no "pregnancy" to abort therefore it fails by definition and facts
4.) which further shows the term are NOT related, you just proved facts right and yourself wrong.

5.) probably? there are in fact millions that belief in religion of one or another that doesnt mean thier god exists hahahahahah wow you make this so easy. People having beliefs doesnt make them fact or true or relate to a factual word. But this does explain how you get things so wrong and get destroyed so often. You have no idea what a fact is.

6.) you havent presented ONE thing that makes the facts wrong . . not ONE lmao . . there are ZERO facts in your post that make the made up term post birth abortion relate to pre birth abortion ZERO :laughat:
7.) how you present zero facts while we still have them all.

here read this slow, "pregnancy is over after birth" there fore theres factually no way to relate post birth abortion to pre birth abortion, there's no such thing based on those terms by facts and definition. Thank you for proving it by the way. I love when you make long posts and comelt own your self. How is it possible that you posts always fail this bad and why do you try to prop them up with posted lies? You are zero and lifetime against me and facts.

8.) I did i destroyed your lie and completely own your failed argument just got its ass handed to istelf :lamo

sooo here we go again

fact remains theres no such thing in relation to abortion and never will be by definition, this fact will never change. .
You let us know when you have ONE single fact that proves others wise . . one, until then your lie fails and your posts will continue to be destroyed.

Disagree? then i simply directly challenge you to post this facts that support your lie . . please do so in your next post
now wipe the egg off your face and try again
opcorn2:

You know what it sounds like you're trying to tell me that since there is no longer a pregnancy, how can there be an abortion?


Well you should know that it doe's exist. Just because they call it by the wrong name you just try to brush it a0side by casting accusations around as if you really cared about anything except you're own plans and plots.

I hope everybody sees you for who you really are.

 

[AGENT J]

You know what it sounds like you're trying to tell me that since there is no longer a pregnancy, how can there be an abortion?


Well you should know that it doe's exist. Just because they call it by the wrong name you just try to brush it a0side by casting accusations around as if you really cared about anything except you're own plans and plots.

I hope everybody sees you for who you really are.

Hey look another personal attack post and still ZERO facts to support your claim LMAO
Typical move when a person doesn't have a honest, logical or intelligent path to take.

Fact remains theres no such thing in relation to abortion and never will be by definition, this fact will never change. .
Please let us know when you have ONE single fact that proves others wise . . one, until then your lie fails and your posts will continue to be destroyed. Thanks

opcorn2: