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why do the pro gaza people wanna help conservatives?

memberya2 said:
I dont understand i support gaza too trust me i shit on israel alot but im still supporting kamala because i support abortion.

Supporting a third party is awesome and all but you cant expect farther left to win if the conservatives destroy elections.

How do you vote third party if trump destroys elections why not vote against him?

They say they are left wing and both partys are right wing which i understand but why destroy everything just for one issue?

They say both sides support funding israel atleast kamala talks about a cease fire.

They would rather not vote for kamala they dont care about abortion or any of these issues its only about gaza and the middle east.

The middle east has been fighting for hundreds of years how is a president gonna fix that?

Even if we didnt send weapons they would still fight how do you call yourself left wing but not wanna destroy trump?

You gotta destroy the far right first before you can expect the left to make more wins you cant just fast forward its gonna take time.

If we had a magic button that fixed everything that would be cool but thats not reality you cant always look for perfection at the expense of all these other wins.

its not just about the middle east why dont we focus on our own country?

Trust me i hate genocide too i dont want kids in gaza to die but why not vote against a fascist?
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I don't know how I would vote if arms from the US, and a laissez-faire attitude on how they are used, were responsible for the deaths of members of my family. I heard some Gaza survivors describe their losses. Honestly, it sounded like the stories of the Jews that survived the Holocaust.
 
Cameron said:
There are two ways for progressives to show they are a powerful voting block. They can either (1) be the reason Harris wins, or (2) be the reason Harris loses. If they choose (1), Harris will have an incentive to work with them, which I believe she wants to do anyway. If they choose (2), they will have no voice on US Israel policy, may get shot if they protest, and will have to deal with an executive branch opposed not only to their views on Gaza but their views on literally every other social and economic issue. They will have to wait 4 years for the lesson they taught Dems to pay off, by which time there may not be a Gaza. And with 1-2 more SCOTUS appointments, the judiciary will remain staunchly conservative until at least 2050--after it is too late for the environment, for example.

So I respectfully think progressives should ask themselves: is a protest vote the best way to achieve your longterm objectives, or is it something that will make you feel good in the short term but undercut not only your relationships with your allies but your subjective goals for the next 25 years?
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Thanks for reposting this.
 
memberya2 said:
I dont understand i support gaza too trust me i shit on israel alot but im still supporting kamala because i support abortion.

Supporting a third party is awesome and all but you cant expect farther left to win if the conservatives destroy elections.

How do you vote third party if trump destroys elections why not vote against him?

They say they are left wing and both partys are right wing which i understand but why destroy everything just for one issue?

They say both sides support funding israel atleast kamala talks about a cease fire.

They would rather not vote for kamala they dont care about abortion or any of these issues its only about gaza and the middle east.

The middle east has been fighting for hundreds of years how is a president gonna fix that?

Even if we didnt send weapons they would still fight how do you call yourself left wing but not wanna destroy trump?

You gotta destroy the far right first before you can expect the left to make more wins you cant just fast forward its gonna take time.

If we had a magic button that fixed everything that would be cool but thats not reality you cant always look for perfection at the expense of all these other wins.

its not just about the middle east why dont we focus on our own country?

Trust me i hate genocide too i dont want kids in gaza to die but why not vote against a fascist?
Click to expand...

Leftists and liberals are not a monolith. I have certainly gone round and round with a couple of them, as they can attest to.

Bernie is right on this one. Even though Harris's stance on Israel/Palestine is imperfect, at least she's willing to give peace a chance. If tRump gets in, Palestine is done.
 
memberya2 said:
Thanks for reposting this.
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I deleted it because I honestly don't know if it is productive or not. Progressives can't be bullied or guilted into voting for Harris. At this point they have to do what their conscience tells them, I just hope they are thinking critically and not emotionally.
 
Cameron said:
There are two ways for progressives to show they are a powerful voting block. They can either (1) be the reason Harris wins, or (2) be the reason Harris loses. If they choose (1), Harris will have an incentive to work with them, which I believe she wants to do anyway. If they choose (2), they will have no voice on US Israel policy, may get shot if they protest, and will have to deal with an executive branch opposed not only to their views on Gaza but their views on literally every other social and economic issue. They will have to wait 4 years for the lesson they taught Dems to pay off, by which time there may not be a Gaza. And with 1-2 more SCOTUS appointments, the judiciary will remain staunchly conservative until at least 2050--after it is too late for the environment, for example.

So I respectfully think progressives should ask themselves: is a protest vote the best way to achieve your longterm objectives, or is it something that will make you feel good in the short term but increase the risks to Palestinians and undercut not only your relationships with your allies but your substantive goals for the next 25 years?
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Excellent post. I know that progressives are frustrated with the system, but the most effective way to voice that frustration is to vote for a candidate who will at least give them a seat at the table. With the other guy, they'd literally be targets.
 
memberya2 said:

why do the pro gaza people wanna help conservatives?​

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Good question. Trump is more pro-Israel than the Dems or any administration in recent memory.

Doesn't anyone remember that ONE MONTH into his first term in 2017 Trump abandoned the U.S.'s decades-long commitment to a two-state solution in a news conference. Standing next to Prime Minister Netanyahu, Trump reversed a long-held position by the United States that any peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians must include a Palestinian state alongside Israel — startling the diplomatic community.
 
It was netanyahu complaining that biden delayed his weapons shipment to them.
 
memberya2 said:
I dont understand i support gaza too trust me i shit on israel alot but im still supporting kamala because i support abortion.
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Kamala can't do anything about abortion you should be focused on state officials for that.
memberya2 said:
Supporting a third party is awesome and all but you cant expect farther left to win if the conservatives destroy elections.

How do you vote third party if trump destroys elections why not vote against him?a
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A vote for third party is a vote against him. It's a vote he doesn't get.
memberya2 said:
They say they are left wing and both partys are right wing which i understand but why destroy everything just for one issue?

They say both sides support funding israel atleast kamala talks about a cease fire.

They would rather not vote for kamala they dont care about abortion or any of these issues its only about gaza and the middle east.

The middle east has been fighting for hundreds of years how is a president gonna fix that?
Click to expand...
No they probably won't.
memberya2 said:
Even if we didnt send weapons they would still fight how do you call yourself left wing but not wanna destroy trump?

You gotta destroy the far right first before you can expect the left to make more wins you cant just fast forward its gonna take time.

If we had a magic button that fixed everything that would be cool but thats not reality you cant always look for perfection at the expense of all these other wins.

its not just about the middle east why dont we focus on our own country?

Trust me i hate genocide too i dont want kids in gaza to die but why not vote against a fascist?
Click to expand...
 
Harris will always try to play both sides of an issue. The middle east is no exception. You almost have to if you want to politically survive. Trouble is the young pro-gaza protestors don't have 'compromise' in their vocabulary. They are just use to getting their way. They will turn on you just as fast as they will support you. A candidate is only as viable as the quality of his/her supporters. This is where Trump has the edge.
 
DCCougar said:
Good question. Trump is more pro-Israel than the Dems or any administration in recent memory.

Doesn't anyone remember that ONE MONTH into his first term in 2017 Trump abandoned the U.S.'s decades-long commitment to a two-state solution in a news conference. Standing next to Prime Minister Netanyahu, Trump reversed a long-held position by the United States that any peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians must include a Palestinian state alongside Israel — startling the diplomatic community.
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Yep


If Trump wins I hope progressive don't go asking for any help. They'll have to figure it out for themselves. Muslims backing Trump after Muslim bans? Yeah, you're on your own. If they can watch Trump killing American women and turn their heads, they don't warrant my attention.
 
DCCougar said:
Good question. Trump is more pro-Israel than the Dems or any administration in recent memory.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

DCCougar said:
Doesn't anyone remember that ONE MONTH into his first term in 2017 Trump abandoned the U.S.'s decades-long commitment to a two-state solution in a news conference. Standing next to Prime Minister Netanyahu, Trump reversed a long-held position by the United States that any peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians must include a Palestinian state alongside Israel — startling the diplomatic community.
Click to expand...

And having Biden spew propaganda about supporting a two state solution while blocking it might make a few people feel good - see, he said he's for it - while it does nothing for Palestinians and he fully is a partner in the genocide. We need to face on this there are two terrible choices - but one is a lot worse than the other. And I blame Harris less than the lobby and existing corruption.
 
It would not be the first time the far-left made such a mess of an issue they harmed the one candidate that could help them in favor of the candidate that makes that one issue worse.
 
A lot of muslims are pretty conservative socially. So if both candidates are supporting essentially the same policies where Israel and Gaza are concerned, why not vote for the candidate they align more with on other topics?
 
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