Why do Military Families Resent Losses?

[repeter]

Okay, the title of this thread is a bit deceptive. While I understand why a military family grieves when they lose a loved on, I don't get why they shouldn't expect that to a reasonable degree.

If you are in the army, you get payed to get shot at, and to shoot back. Your profession is practically organized murder. Now, not getting into the profession itself, but why do military families feel so bad when their loved one, in the army dies?

P.S. I'm talking about front line soldiers, infantrymen and what not.

 

[Arch Enemy]

Nothing can prepare you for the early death of your Son, Daughter, Brother, Sister, Husband, Father, Mother, Husband or Wife... Nothing, It's that simple.

 

[kansaswhig]

Okay, the title of this thread is a bit deceptive. While I understand why a military family grieves when they lose a loved on, I don't get why they shouldn't expect that to a reasonable degree.

If you are in the army, you get payed to get shot at, and to shoot back. Your profession is practically organized murder. Now, not getting into the profession itself, but why do military families feel so bad when their loved one, in the army dies?

P.S. I'm talking about front line soldiers, infantrymen and what not.

First, you are a Jackass and I take offense to your post.

Second, most people grieve when anyone dies.

Third, I am in the Army, a combat arms soldier, and I don't "get paid to get shot at". I get shot at when I'm doing what I am ordered to. Big difference. My profession IS NOT organized murder. What a callous and stupid thing for you to say and proof that you are a clueless, sniveling liberal with that kind of an outrageous opinion about the military. You don't have a clue.

P.S. Not just infantrymen die in war; many combat support soldiers are also killed in the contemporary style of warfare we are engaged in. They are no less of a soldier and no less brave.

You should *pause* and *think* before you hit "submit" next time.

Although I think you are bating, so I guess I fell for it. Were you trying to pull all the veterans in with your rediculous post so you can snipe at them?

 

[repeter]

Nothing can prepare you for the early death of your Son, Daughter, Brother, Sister, Husband, Father, Mother, Husband or Wife... Nothing, It's that simple.

Yet they accept that their family member is in the army. And when the inevitable happens, they grieve worse then others, asking why their family member, in the army died.

 

[Arch Enemy]

Yet they accept that their family member is in the army. And when the inevitable happens, they grieve worse then others, asking why their family member, in the army died.

People will grieve even if there is 100% certainty of death. Whether they are in the army means very little.

 

[repeter]

People will grieve even if there is 100% certainty of death. Whether they are in the army means very little.

Then why do they complain that whoever shouldn't have died? Its war, and people die. Thats the nature of things. And then the families can turn around, and say they fully support Bush for going in, and indirectly getting their loved one killed.

Maybe this misunderstanding is occuring because I'm attempting to logify (?) this whole thing. Emotion vs. logic right?

 

[Arch Enemy]

Then why do they complain that whoever shouldn't have died? Its war, and people die. Thats the nature of things. And then the families can turn around, and say they fully support Bush for going in, and indirectly getting their loved one killed.

You've turned this into a partisan discussion. I'm done here. Grow up repeter.

 

[repeter]

First, you are a Jackass and I take offense to your post.

Second, most people grieve when anyone dies.

Third, I am in the Army, a combat arms soldier, and I don't "get paid to get shot at". I get shot at when I'm doing what I am ordered to. Big difference. My profession IS NOT organized murder. What a callous and stupid thing for you to say and proof that you are a clueless, sniveling liberal with that kind of an outrageous opinion about the military. You don't have a clue.

P.S. Not just infantrymen die in war; many combat support soldiers are also killed in the contemporary style of warfare we are engaged in. They are no less of a soldier and no less brave.

You should *pause* and *think* before you hit "submit" next time.

Although I think you are bating, so I guess I fell for it. Were you trying to pull all the veterans in with your rediculous post so you can snipe at them?

First, I am a jackass, and I honestly don't give a crap.

Second, I understand that people grieve when a loved one dies, but why don't these families plan for the eventuality, especially when we are at war, and a loved one is deployed?

Third, I'm not insulting your profession, I think it is very honorable that you are willing to potentially give your life to your country, but what I'm asking, is doesn't your family prepare for the possibility of death? And if they do, why do they start complaining to the government that someone died in war.

P.S. I really wasn't trying to "snipe" at veterans, I was just wondering why military families either 1. don't prepare for death due to your job, or 2. they complain that the person shouldn't have died, regardless of having been in the army.

 

[repeter]

You've turned this into a partisan discussion. I'm done here. Grow up repeter.

If you want to throw Obama's name in there, go right on ahead and do so. I'm wondering why a family is willing to allow their family member to enter the army, but are unable to bear the news that the loved one, in the army, died.

I understand you don't want to hear it, and regardless of who, you grieve, but shouldn't they understand that the loved one might die?

 

[1069]

Okay, the title of this thread is a bit deceptive. While I understand why a military family grieves when they lose a loved on, I don't get why they shouldn't expect that to a reasonable degree.

If you are in the army, you get payed to get shot at, and to shoot back. Your profession is practically organized murder. Now, not getting into the profession itself, but why do military families feel so bad when their loved one, in the army dies?

P.S. I'm talking about front line soldiers, infantrymen and what not.

My son has recently joined the army.
He's in a non-combat MOS, but there are no front lines in this war.
Many soldiers who have died in Iraq or Afghanistan have been ambushed and shot at by snipers or fallen victim to IEDs while riding in convoys. It is not just frontline or infantry soldiers that are vulnerable; it's anybody on the roads.
It's becoming clear that many of our troops are also dying in helicopter accidents; transport by helicopter is pretty common in Afghanistan, as many of the roads are pretty impassable, and troops sometimes have to be transported to obscure outposts.

It's disingenuous to ask why family members "feel so bad" when a beloved son, husband, father (or daughter, mother, or wife) dies in service of his or her country.
They feel bad because they love that person, and they'll miss him/ her. That's a no-brainer.

It's not entirely unexpected, though; speaking for myself, I'm under no illusions about how dangerous deployment to a war zone is; I've read every government casualty statistic, every scrap of information I can get my hands on. I know the score.
Being the person that I am, I did a lot of my grieving when my son joined, especially after he went away for training.
What I was grieving for was the loss of the illusion that most American parents share: the illusion that my child could be safe. That I could keep him safe.
I know that he won't be, and that I can't help him.
But he wasn't safe even before he joined; I was only able to pretend he was.

Still, the fact is that many soldiers come back safe and sound, even strengthened in body and mind in some cases.
Of course that's what everyone who loves a soldier hopes for their soldier.
Hope springs eternal. It's the human condition. We wouldn't be able to survive without hope.
So, you know... it's not so much that families are shocked when soldiers die; it's not that they didn't know the soldiers were in danger over there.
It hurts because they had hoped that their soldier would be one of the lucky ones- the majority- that came back unscathed. They have to hope that. It's not an unrealistic hope. Being prepared for the possibility that your child might die a sudden, violent death doesn't make it less devastating if and when he does; there's really no adequate way to prepare for that. You just accept the possibility, hope for the best, and deal with stuff as it comes.

 

[Kelzie]

First, I am a jackass, and I honestly don't give a crap.

Second, I understand that people grieve when a loved one dies, but why don't these families plan for the eventuality, especially when we are at war, and a loved one is deployed?

Third, I'm not insulting your profession, I think it is very honorable that you are willing to potentially give your life to your country, but what I'm asking, is doesn't your family prepare for the possibility of death? And if they do, why do they start complaining to the government that someone died in war.

P.S. I really wasn't trying to "snipe" at veterans, I was just wondering why military families either 1. don't prepare for death due to your job, or 2. they complain that the person shouldn't have died, regardless of having been in the army.

You're lucky I'm bored, cause this thread is just retarded.

First. Agreed.

Second. We do plan for a possibility. All of us do. Life insurance plans are updated, power of attorney is transferred, yada, yada. All military spouses are prepared.

Third. What? If your spouse died of cancer, wouldn't you ask why they were singled out? Although obviously my spouse is safe at home (hi honey!) any military spouse with an ounce of common sense realizes what might happen when their loved ones deploy. Otherwise it wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[kansaswhig]

First, I am a jackass, and I honestly don't give a crap.

Second, I understand that people grieve when a loved one dies, but why don't these families plan for the eventuality, especially when we are at war, and a loved one is deployed?

Third, I'm not insulting your profession, I think it is very honorable that you are willing to potentially give your life to your country, but what I'm asking, is doesn't your family prepare for the possibility of death? And if they do, why do they start complaining to the government that someone died in war.

P.S. I really wasn't trying to "snipe" at veterans, I was just wondering why military families either 1. don't prepare for death due to your job, or 2. they complain that the person shouldn't have died, regardless of having been in the army.

The families prepare. More than you know.

I prepare. I'm not sure who you are talking about.

Cindy Sheehan?

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

First, I am a jackass, and I honestly don't give a crap.

Second, I understand that people grieve when a loved one dies, but why don't these families plan for the eventuality, especially when we are at war, and a loved one is deployed?

Third, I'm not insulting your profession, I think it is very honorable that you are willing to potentially give your life to your country, but what I'm asking, is doesn't your family prepare for the possibility of death? And if they do, why do they start complaining to the government that someone died in war.

P.S. I really wasn't trying to "snipe" at veterans, I was just wondering why military families either 1. don't prepare for death due to your job, or 2. they complain that the person shouldn't have died, regardless of having been in the army.

-
:screwyWhat??? 'Why don't families :ws***PLAN***:ws for the eventuality ???????????:screwy
This calls for a full blown 5 Smiles!!!!!
:roll:

 

[Jerry]

Okay, the title of this thread is a bit deceptive. While I understand why a military family grieves when they lose a loved on, I don't get why they shouldn't expect that to a reasonable degree.

If you are in the army, you get payed to get shot at, and to shoot back. Your profession is practically organized murder. Now, not getting into the profession itself, but why do military families feel so bad when their loved one, in the army dies?

P.S. I'm talking about front line soldiers, infantrymen and what not.

If you are in the army, you get payed to WIN.

Being killed is an occupational hazard, and soldiers in Iraq are no more likely to die than any other civilian of the same age on the streets in America.

 

[RDS]

Yeah, stupid insensitive topic.

 

[Renae]

Yet they accept that their family member is in the army. And when the inevitable happens, they grieve worse then others, asking why their family member, in the army died.

Are you really this... obtuse, or just trying to get someone to explode on you so you can report them? Because those are the only two explanations for you behavior.

Perhaps you should quit watching sensationalist news shows that only find the most "dramatic" examples of people reactions to push an agenda and go to a few funerals for fallen soldiers. I am betting you'll see you've been had... however I think you are far to craven for such a real world learning experience.

 

[Redress]

Your profession is practically organized murder.

I got that far, and could not even be bothered to read any of the rest of the crap from you. You owe every active duty, reserve, and veteran a sincere apology.

 

[RedAkston]

repeter, I realize that you are very young and that you have a lot to learn about life. I'll do my best to try to explain to you why military families grieve when they lose a loved one without attacking you personally. Here goes:

Our military has been a volunteer only force since 1973. Our military members serve their country at the behest of the President, whoever that is at the time. We can disagree with how the POTUS uses the military until the end of time, but the volunteer members of our armed forces serve to protect us and keep us safe. Our military has defended against tyranny, protected the innocent and stopped atrocities and crimes against humanity. They have freed millions and millions over history and are the main reason why you and I have the right to live in relative freedom (the relative part is a completely different discussion). They are the defenders of our land and the protectors of the United States of America.

I have a deep respect for those who serve, and have served. They do it of their own choice and they do it so that others do not have to against their will. This is a sacrifice that so many others are not willing or capable of making. Let's use this analogy: Someone tries to attack your family or bring harm to them - your father steps up to protect you. Someone tries to attack our country, neighbors, allies - our military steps up to protect all of us. They put their lives on the line to defend the values this country was founded on and to defend the lives of all of us. When we lose a military member, we should all grieve.

When a soldier/sailor/marine/airman dies in combat, their family grieves. When a soldier/sailor/marine/airman dies in an auto accident while on leave, their family grieves. They grieve because they have lost someone very close to them. It does not matter whether they died in combat or by some other mishap, they lost a loved one. Your line of thinking "I don't get why they shouldn't expect that to a reasonable degree" is completely wrong. They do expect that and they plan for it ahead of time - more than the average person does. But when they get word of their loved one's death, they still lost that loved one.

Let's say that you have an uncle who likes to party. He goes out and drinks every night, then drives home. He's been doing this for years and then he gets in an accident and is killed. Would you be upset if someone doesn't understand why you are grieving when with his drinking and driving (his choice), it was inevitable? Losing a loved one is losing a loved one, no matter what their profession or how they died. The difference when a military service member dies in the line of duty is that they served for all of us. They died serving something greater than themselves. They died defending your right to sit behind a computer and ask questions.

I've been to a few funerals in my lifetime. I lost the last of my grandparents when I was 20 years old. I've lost an aunt to cancer. I've lost both family and friends. I grieve at each and every funeral for my loss and the loss of those close to me. IMHO, nothing is as sad as a military funeral - but only when you respect their sacrifice and understand their sacrifice. I hope this helps you see things from a little different perspective.

 

[1069]

One thing to keep in mind, when it comes to young men between the ages of 17 and 24, is that here in the US 1 out of 150 of them die anyway.
This includes deaths by accidents (especially auto), violent deaths, homicide, suicide, substance-related deaths.* Everything but illness, because they're really a pretty hardy bunch at that age.
In fact, they will not be at such high risk of violent or accidental death again until they're over 70 years old.
So it's not like they're safe even if they don't go to war. Their risk of violent death is in fact only slightly elevated by deployment.
It's just that when they're here, we can pretend it's not so.






* As per the National Center for Health Statistics, 2007.

 

[Arch Enemy]

You guys are way too kind. He didn't deserve any explanation. If it was only me, I would have left his ass before the end of the first page. Next he's going to ask why are families of stillborn sad, I mean they signed up for the gamble.

Pathetic.

 

[RedAkston]

You guys are way too kind. He didn't deserve any explanation. If it was only me, I would have left his ass before the end of the first page. Next he's going to ask why are families of stillborn sad, I mean they signed up for the gamble.

Pathetic.

He's not even old enough to drive yet. This is why some of us took it easy on him.

 

[1069]

You guys are way too kind. He didn't deserve any explanation. If it was only me, I would have left his ass before the end of the first page. Next he's going to ask why are families of stillborn sad, I mean they signed up for the gamble.

Pathetic.

I answered him because I wondered the same things- although might not have said them- in the past.
I know I've stated on this very forum, several times over the years, that "if any kid of mine ever tried to join the military, I'd shoot his foot off."
Actually, I probably said, "if any kid of mine ever got drafted". Because I wouldn't have been able to imagine any circumstance in which any child of mine would voluntarily join the armed forces.
There are many things we can't foresee, in this life.

I thought all army moms were some sort of conservative christian freaks, who cared more about killing terrorists than they did about their own kids' safety.
I figured their primary emotion would be pride, if their child died in combat.

That's why I bother to answer the thread-starter.
His ignorance is my own. His offensiveness is my own.
His questions, however stupidly and offensively phrased, are the same questions i used to entertain.

Now I know the answers, and i don't mind sharing them with him.
Whether he understands or believes me, I have no control over.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I thought all army moms were some sort of conservative christian freaks, who cared more about killing terrorists than they did about their own kids' safety.
I figured their primary emotion would be pride, if their child died in combat.

Actually, politics play little to no role in a person's choice to join the military. Or their parent's reaction to that decision. And if you check around, the split between Democrats and Republicans is pretty much 50-50. About the only difference you will probably find is that a higher percentage of the Democrats will be "Conservative Democrats" then the general population.

My mother was pretty Liberal. Smoked pot in her 40's, pro-abortion, ERA, believed that Government Programs were the cure to everything. And she was very proud that I joined the Military.

My father however was a life-long Republican. Very conservative, he worked most of his life for a defense contractor. While he "supported the military", he felt that the military was not a good career choice for "his son". I should have gone to college, not wasted my time in something that was beneath me.

Interestingly, my dad has changed his views in many ways over the years. More conservative then ever, he is now glad that I defied him in my career choice, and is very proud of my service. Especially since I have done it 2 seperate times, the most recent at the age of 42 (when most in the service are preparing to retire).

 

[repeter]

repeter, I realize that you are very young and that you have a lot to learn about life. I'll do my best to try to explain to you why military families grieve when they lose a loved one without attacking you personally. Here goes:

Our military has been a volunteer only force since 1973. Our military members serve their country at the behest of the President, whoever that is at the time. We can disagree with how the POTUS uses the military until the end of time, but the volunteer members of our armed forces serve to protect us and keep us safe. Our military has defended against tyranny, protected the innocent and stopped atrocities and crimes against humanity. They have freed millions and millions over history and are the main reason why you and I have the right to live in relative freedom (the relative part is a completely different discussion). They are the defenders of our land and the protectors of the United States of America.

I have a deep respect for those who serve, and have served. They do it of their own choice and they do it so that others do not have to against their will. This is a sacrifice that so many others are not willing or capable of making. Let's use this analogy: Someone tries to attack your family or bring harm to them - your father steps up to protect you. Someone tries to attack our country, neighbors, allies - our military steps up to protect all of us. They put their lives on the line to defend the values this country was founded on and to defend the lives of all of us. When we lose a military member, we should all grieve.

When a soldier/sailor/marine/airman dies in combat, their family grieves. When a soldier/sailor/marine/airman dies in an auto accident while on leave, their family grieves. They grieve because they have lost someone very close to them. It does not matter whether they died in combat or by some other mishap, they lost a loved one. Your line of thinking "I don't get why they shouldn't expect that to a reasonable degree" is completely wrong. They do expect that and they plan for it ahead of time - more than the average person does. But when they get word of their loved one's death, they still lost that loved one.

Let's say that you have an uncle who likes to party. He goes out and drinks every night, then drives home. He's been doing this for years and then he gets in an accident and is killed. Would you be upset if someone doesn't understand why you are grieving when with his drinking and driving (his choice), it was inevitable? Losing a loved one is losing a loved one, no matter what their profession or how they died. The difference when a military service member dies in the line of duty is that they served for all of us. They died serving something greater than themselves. They died defending your right to sit behind a computer and ask questions.

I've been to a few funerals in my lifetime. I lost the last of my grandparents when I was 20 years old. I've lost an aunt to cancer. I've lost both family and friends. I grieve at each and every funeral for my loss and the loss of those close to me. IMHO, nothing is as sad as a military funeral - but only when you respect their sacrifice and understand their sacrifice. I hope this helps you see things from a little different perspective.

Seeing as you are one of two to actually respond to my posts, thank you.

I'd like to point out, that I wasn't saying military families shouldn't mourn, or grieve, or that the military members died either in vain, or doing something wrong.

I was just wondering why, originally, why military families would start complaining, to such a degree, that their family members died. Thinking about it, I also should have factored in media bias, which apparently is much more central to this then I previously thought.

And too veterans, I was never saying you don't deserve to be grieved over or mourned ( god forbid).

And seriously people, stop attacking my age, it's a wee bit annoying.

 

[RedAkston]

Seeing as you are one of two to actually respond to my posts, thank you.

I'd like to point out, that I wasn't saying military families shouldn't mourn, or grieve, or that the military members died either in vain, or doing something wrong.

I was just wondering why, originally, why military families would start complaining, to such a degree, that their family members died. Thinking about it, I also should have factored in media bias, which apparently is much more central to this then I previously thought.

And too veterans, I was never saying you don't deserve to be grieved over or mourned ( god forbid).

And seriously people, stop attacking my age, it's a wee bit annoying.

When the family of a military member who is killed in a war that they personally disagree with, it sparks outrage. Look at Vietnam, or more recently Cindy Sheehan. The liberal media ran with the Cindy Sheehan thing for far, far too long. The woman is and was disturbed. She had every right to mourn the loss of her son, but the media made her story front page news, because it fit their agenda. Hundreds of other parents had lost their son(s)/daughter(s) in that same war, but they didn't get anywhere near the media attention that she got.

The US media is disgusting. There isn't a media outlet left that doesn't have an agenda or an angle. What news outlets run isn't the news, it what will pull in the ratings. The liberal media will use the coffins of dead soldiers to attempt to sway public opinion against the war. And the conservative media did the same thing with 9/11 victims. The media isn't in the business of reporting the news any more, they are in the business of showmanship and pushing their own agenda.