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Why do Anti-abortion advocates ignore statistics.

The issue started in the states and went through due process up to the SCOTUS. That's how the system works.
And in the case of Roe V Wade, it was unconstitutional legislation from the bench.
Of course it can. It has that authority as the highest court in the land.
Nope. The highest authority in the land is the US constitution. The SCOTUS is only about interpretation.
Your point is irrelevant. The SCOTUS is able to rule on any issue that comes before it. This is basic civics.
I strongly suggest that you take a course in constitutional law. Roe V Wade stayed in force only because the court at the time had a librul bent. It was forever vulnerable to getting overturned, because it was not backed up in the US constitution. If it had been there would never have been a Dobbs decision, even with a court with a conservative bent.
 
And in the case of Roe V Wade, it was unconstitutional legislation from the bench.
What was legislated? Cite the specific law legislated!
Nope. The highest authority in the land is the US constitution. The SCOTUS is only about interpretation
I said "highest court." Not authority. Intentionly misquoting me is as good as lying. Regardless, if the SCOTUS interprets the Constitution, then their ruling are based and stand on that. You just defeated your own argument.
.

I strongly suggest that you take a course in constitutional law.
Given your posts, I am apparently far more familiar with it than you.
Roe V Wade stayed in force only because the court at the time had a librul bent.
the Roe court was a conservative majority. And they ruled for Roe with a 7-2 ruling.
It was forever vulnerable to getting overturned, because it was not backed up in the US constitution. If it had been there would never have been a Dobbs decision, even with a court with a conservative bent.
I already said a SCOTUS court can overrule another SCOTUS court. What's your point? It seems you're just grasping at straws!
 
What was legislated? Cite the specific law legislated!
Nothing legally. Roe V Wade did not go through congress or the White House and was not based on anything in the US constitution as abortion is not mentioned in the document. It became law until the Dobbs decision overtuurned it.
said "highest court." Not authority. Intentionly misquoting me is as good as lying. Regardless, if the SCOTUS interprets the Constitution, then their ruling are based and stand on that. You just defeated your own argument.
The keyword is interpretation. Roe V Wade was not interpretation.
Given your posts, I am apparently far more familiar with it than you.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
the Roe court was a conservative majority. And they ruled for Roe with a 7-2 ruling.
And that 7-2 ruling was properly overturned
I already said a SCOTUS court can overrule another SCOTUS court. What's your point? It seems you're just grasping at straws!
The SCOTUS cannot constitutionally overrule on issues not relegated to the federal government. If you actually understood constitutional law, you would know that. However, I have lost patience with you and will leave you to your ignorance.
 
Nothing legally.
So it made no law? Thanks for admitting that.
Roe V Wade did not go through congress or the White House and was not based on anything in the US constitution as abortion is not mentioned in the document. It became law until the Dobbs decision overtuurned it.
Do all legal cases have to go throught the President? You still haven't cited the "law" it became. Until you do, your entire argument fails!
The keyword is interpretation. Roe V Wade was not interpretation.
You said the SCOTUS interpretes that Constitution. The SCOTUS interpreted the Constitution to affirm abortion rights.
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Another example of ho you fail to refute anything I said while doubling down on your own ignorance.
And that 7-2 ruling was properly overturned
You seem to think SCTOUS decision can never be overturned?
The SCOTUS cannot constitutionally overrule on issues not relegated to the federal government. If you actually understood constitutional law, you would know that. However, I have lost patience with you and will leave you to your ignorance.
Such projection! Issues with law, be it state, federal, or constitutional are left to the SCOTUS to resolve. The fact you do not understand that is your own lack of understanding, not mine!
 
So it made no law? Thanks for admitting that.
However Roe V Wade served as al until it was wisely overturned by the Dobbs decision. Until then it was for all practical purposes legislation from the bench.
Do all legal cases have to go throught the President? You still haven't cited the "law" it became. Until you do, your entire argument fails!
Legislation goes through congress and is signed or veoted by the president.
You said the SCOTUS interpretes that Constitution. The SCOTUS interpreted the Constitution to affirm abortion rights.
And they blew it big time on Roe V Wade. The decision was not based on a damn thing written into the US Constitution. That's why it was overturned by the Dobbs decision.
You seem to think SCTOUS decision can never be overturned?
If you are referring to the Dobbs decision, certainly a librul bent court can come up with a new ruling that overturns it, however such a decision, not backed up by the US Constitution will still be forever vulnerable to a future decision overturning it. That's the point you appear unwilling to admit to. Abortion rights are not backed up by anything in the US Constitution. It is simply not a federal issue, unless an amendment to the US Constitution is proposed and ratified by the states. That is why the democrats in congress shit themselves anytime a conservative was nominated to the SCOTUS.
Such projection! Issues with law, be it state, federal, or constitutional are left to the SCOTUS to resolve. The fact you do not understand that is your own lack of understanding, not mine!
Your ignorance is still quite astounding! State laws that do not conflict with federal laws absolutely cannot be overturned by the SCOTUS, at least constitutionally. It would have been just as wrong if a SCOTUS with a conservative bent came up with a decision outlawing abortion on demand. You simply lack a coherent understanding of constitutional law and for that matter states power vs federal power. Perhaps the following will help you:


 
However Roe V Wade served as al until it was wisely overturned by the Dobbs decision. Until then it was for all practical purposes legislation from the bench.
THat would be incorrect. Unless you can cite the specific legislation, which I know you can't. So all the talk of "legislation from the bench" is nothing more than ignorant legalistic BS!
Legislation goes through congress and is signed or veoted by the president.
Passed legislation at all levels of government that is challenged goes through the courts.
And they blew it big time on Roe V Wade. The decision was not based on a damn thing written into the US Constitution. That's why it was overturned by the Dobbs decision.
The Justices presiding disagree with you. They cited ther reasoning when rendering their ruling.
If you are referring to the Dobbs decision, certainly a librul bent court can come up with a new ruling that overturns it,
The fact that you have to turn everything into a conseative/liberal argument only shows your bias and inability to deal with legal facts.
however such a decision, not backed up by the US Constitution will still be forever vulnerable to a future decision overturning it.
Why do you keep on repeating yourself? That is not in dispute.
That's the point you appear unwilling to admit to. Abortion rights are not backed up by anything in the US Constitution. It is simply not a federal issue, unless an amendment to the US Constitution is proposed and ratified by the states. That is why the democrats in congress shit themselves anytime a conservative was nominated to the SCOTUS.
I have repeatedly said SCOTUS ruling can be overturned by another SCOTUS ruling. Are you not paying attention? At the time, the SCOTUS did deem abortion rights was within the purview of the Constitution. You may not agree with it, but it doesn't change the facts!
Your ignorance is still quite astounding!
More projection on your part.
State laws that do not conflict with federal laws absolutely cannot be overturned by the SCOTUS, at least constitutionally. It would have been just as wrong if a SCOTUS with a conservative bent came up with a decision outlawing abortion on demand. You simply lack a coherent understanding of constitutional law and for that matter states power vs federal power. Perhaps the following will help you:
It's not about if state laws conflict with federal laws. That is irrelevant in this context. State laws were simply challenged and brought before the courts. The SCOTUS has final say in such matters if a challenge reaches it. Again, that's how the system works.
 
How can it be cruel to children to ban the killing of children???

We should both discourage abortion, while at the same time heavily support children and families, unwed moms, etc, etc
You know trump/Musk will never support children and families/unwed moms
 
That is irrelevant in this context. State laws were simply challenged and brought before the courts. The SCOTUS has final say in such matters if a challenge reaches it. Again, that's how the system works.
For the last time. read and study the 10th amendment to the US constitution. If you read it all the way through in an objective manner, hopefully you will get a handle on your ignorance. If not...have a nice day.
 
For the last time. read and study the 10th amendment to the US constitution. If you read it all the way through in an objective manner, hopefully you will get a handle on your ignorance. If not...have a nice day.
Maybe you should study civics, since your knowledge and understandng of the judicial process and review is sorely lacking.
 
For the last time. read and study the 10th amendment to the US constitution. If you read it all the way through in an objective manner, hopefully you will get a handle on your ignorance. If not...have a nice day.
While you're catching up on your civics studies, I suggest you pay particular attention to Artice 3 of the Constitution.
 
And in the case of Roe V Wade, it was unconstitutional legislation from the bench.

Nope. The highest authority in the land is the US constitution. The SCOTUS is only about interpretation.

I strongly suggest that you take a course in constitutional law. Roe V Wade stayed in force only because the court at the time had a librul bent. It was forever vulnerable to getting overturned, because it was not backed up in the US constitution. If it had been there would never have been a Dobbs decision, even with a court with a conservative bent.
If the SCOTUS were only about interpretation, the interpretation in Roe v Wade would be as free from criticism and Dobbs v Jackson for everyone, and vice versa. Only a right-wing shill takes the position that Roe was vulnerable but Dobbs isn't. In fact, give it 20 years, and Dobbs will unquestionably be overturned.
 
If the SCOTUS were only about interpretation, the interpretation in Roe v Wade would be as free from criticism and Dobbs v Jackson for everyone, and vice versa.
Like it or not, the SCOTUS is about interpretation. And with all due respect to the court, they do not get it right 100% of the time. That's why some decisions get overturned.
Only a right-wing shill takes the position that Roe was vulnerable but Dobbs isn't. In fact, give it 20 years, and Dobbs will unquestionably be overturned.
That is an astoundingly ignorant statement considering that your democrat party itself quite publicly considered Roe V Wade vulnerable. Every time a conservative judge or justice was nominated, they twisted themselves in circles during confirmation hearings, asking the nominee in multiple different ways how they would vote on any potential decision regarding Roe V Wade. Or one could say they were playing people like you on the abortion issue for the sake of fundraising.
 
It is you that is quite confused. I get that there was a national movement against state abortion laws, however with nothing to back up abortion rights in the US constitution, the right way to proceed would have been to push a US Constitutional amendment to make abortion a federal issue. The SCOTUS cannot simply repeal laws that are relegated to the states. That is why Roe vs Wade ultimately failed. In the roughly 50 years that Roe V Wade was in force, the abortion movement or the democrat party could have at least codified Roe V Wade into law, which would have given it more teeth, however they didn't. And that was intentional They chose to keep it vulnerable to a future SCOTUS decision reversing it, for the sake of fundraising and fighting off conservative nominees to the federal bench or the SCOTUS. They did not expect that it would actually be reversed, but they played it that way for political benefit. To put it more bluntly, the democrat party played people like you.
I don't think you get the reasoning of the medical professionals in the movement.

At that time, the only reason shared by all the state governments for allowing abortion was to save a woman's life. In some states, abortion was also allowed by exceptions for the woman's physical health, mental health, and, more rarely in cases of rape and incest.

No one had anticipated that a prescribed medication taken in pregnancy could result in serious fetal deformity, and people were genuinely furious that drugs had been developed that could cause this.

Meanwhile, the exceptions in state laws were not great, because abortion was treated as so criminal that it was easier to let a woman die or be permanently disabled, etc., than try to care for her, given the harsh punishments the law imposed on doctors. But doctors took an oath to do no harm to patients, and just refusing them abortions could harm them. The overproduction of kids also harmed women in the fifties - it is well known that having more than four kids has terrible effects on most women's health, and some women are harmed by producing more than one or two.

The whole culture of overproduction of children and hardship in the law pushed women into trying to end pregnancies by trying to cause deliberate miscarriages, etc. So secret networks of medical practitioners, at least in major cities, offered illegal abortion services

No one I knew back then thought fetuses were persons, not even the anti-abortion people. Save for Catholics, almost no one in the US liked the existing laws. Even most Evangelicals thought the strict anti-abortion laws were wrong and imposed terrible hardship on girls and women.

So when Roe v Wade was reasoned, the issue of whether or not medical doctors had a right to offer safe, legal abortions because of their oath was not countered by a claim that the fetus was a person with rights. The issue was, could the state make a restriction that could physically and mentally harm girls and women when the point of medical treatment was to prevent harm? It was, what was state government doing to the persons that girls and women were if it forced them to continue rape pregnancies, incestuous pregnancies, when there were laws against rape and incest, so the pregnancies themselves were extensions of the crimes? It was, what state government was forcing girls and women to risk their lives and health to give birth to known fetal deformities that were created by some medical error that wasn't their fault? Wasn't this violating the rights of persons?

You don't have to answer the questions the way the SC justices did in Roe v Wade. But if you want to understand the issue, you have to grasp that people all over the US were horrified at the casual way in which state law forced doctors to deny patients what they thought was ethical medical treatment and forced girls and women to risk harm to themselves and continue bodily states that they themselves considered ethically evil.
 
However Roe V Wade served as al until it was wisely overturned by the Dobbs decision. Until then it was for all practical purposes legislation from the bench.

Legislation goes through congress and is signed or veoted by the president.

And they blew it big time on Roe V Wade. The decision was not based on a damn thing written into the US Constitution. That's why it was overturned by the Dobbs decision.

If you are referring to the Dobbs decision, certainly a librul bent court can come up with a new ruling that overturns it, however such a decision, not backed up by the US Constitution will still be forever vulnerable to a future decision overturning it. That's the point you appear unwilling to admit to. Abortion rights are not backed up by anything in the US Constitution. It is simply not a federal issue, unless an amendment to the US Constitution is proposed and ratified by the states. That is why the democrats in congress shit themselves anytime a conservative was nominated to the SCOTUS.

Your ignorance is still quite astounding! State laws that do not conflict with federal laws absolutely cannot be overturned by the SCOTUS, at least constitutionally. It would have been just as wrong if a SCOTUS with a conservative bent came up with a decision outlawing abortion on demand. You simply lack a coherent understanding of constitutional law and for that matter states power vs federal power. Perhaps the following will help you:


Actually, your problem is that you apparently believe that a conservative reading of the Constitution is the only possible kind. In this, you reveal an excessive narrow-mindedness. I am liberal, so I like liberal readings of the Constitution, but I'm not so narrow-minded that I can't even see your point of view. You aren't even capable of living in a big society with multiple points of view. Why are you even in this country? You should be living in a feudal town in the European Middle Ages, because you lack the capacity to live in a country with the kind of diversity that led to the Constitution in the first place.
 
Actually, your problem is that you apparently believe that a conservative reading of the Constitution is the only possible kind. In this, you reveal an excessive narrow-mindedness. I am liberal, so I like liberal readings of the Constitution, but I'm not so narrow-minded that I can't even see your point of view. You aren't even capable of living in a big society with multiple points of view. Why are you even in this country? You should be living in a feudal town in the European Middle Ages, because you lack the capacity to live in a country with the kind of diversity that led to the Constitution in the first place.
What a load of utter nonsense.
 
BS. Most of us on the pro-life exempt victims or rape and incest, as well as mortal danger to the life of the mother. If we were not considering women, we would just oppose abortion(baby homicide) under any conditions.

You only allow for those because the woman was forced into pregnancy. That should be irrelevant. It is still the killing of a baby. You support murder.
 
Nobody is doing it though... and all making it illegal does is start paving the road to oppression and denial of rights. Can't do it at 8 months now and it slowly starts getting eroded, like it already is. Pro-lifers should be ashamed of themselves... what they are doing to their sisters and daughters. Just horrible.

Meh. It is not as if it affects them inter-personally. At this point, most of pro-Lifers are either in their far-right religious bubble, or they are divorced dads and their children don't talk to them most of the year if at all. And that is for the pro-Lifers who have actual relationships. Many pro-Lifers are young men who have never had sex in their lives and are both repulsed by and are repulsive to the opposite sex.
 
You only allow for those because the woman was forced into pregnancy. That should be irrelevant. It is still the killing of a baby. You support murder.
It is a hypocritical position. Another question is, regardless if a woman is forced into pregnancy or not, why should she be forced to remain pregnant against her will? Anti abortionists do not seem able to rationally answer that question either.
 
It is a hypocritical position. Another question is, regardless if a woman is forced into pregnancy or not, why should she be forced to remain pregnant against her will? Anti abortionists do not seem able to rationally answer that question either.

Agreed. I am trying to take one point at a time to simplify it and reduce the chances he will create a Fallacious argument.

.
 
It is a hypocritical position. Another question is, regardless if a woman is forced into pregnancy or not, why should she be forced to remain pregnant against her will? Anti abortionists do not seem able to rationally answer that question either.

I've posted this before: It's not about protecting the unborn, it's about punishing women. Their opinions are based on the women, not the unborn.

I've discovered a pretty clear dividing line for "acceptable" for pro-life people. It's viewed the same very very frequently.​
If it's the woman's 'fault' she got pregnant (she enjoyed sex, her birth control failed, etc.) then she should not be allowed to have an abortion.
If it wasnt her fault (rape, severe medical issues, incest as a minor) then she should be allowed to have an abortion.
So what we can see here is that:​
--obviously most pro-life people do not view the unborn as the same as a person or even a baby...If the unborn was the same, or a baby, you could not terminate its life in cases of rape or incest or even the mother's life to some extent. (There are a few pro-life people that do believe you cannot terminate the unborn in these circumstances and at least they are consistent.)​
-- most pro-life people care more about judging and punishing a woman than they care for that 'innocent life'. (yeah, considering it punishment because the unborn is frequently referred to as a 'consequence')​
So IMO the dividing line re: abortion for pro-life supporters has nothing to do with the unborn, it's all about the woman and how they judge her culpability in the pregnancy.
 
I've posted this before: It's not about protecting the unborn, it's about punishing women. Their opinions are based on the women, not the unborn.

I've discovered a pretty clear dividing line for "acceptable" for pro-life people. It's viewed the same very very frequently.​
If it's the woman's 'fault' she got pregnant (she enjoyed sex, her birth control failed, etc.) then she should not be allowed to have an abortion.
If it wasnt her fault (rape, severe medical issues, incest as a minor) then she should be allowed to have an abortion.
So what we can see here is that:​
--obviously most pro-life people do not view the unborn as the same as a person or even a baby...If the unborn was the same, or a baby, you could not terminate its life in cases of rape or incest or even the mother's life to some extent. (There are a few pro-life people that do believe you cannot terminate the unborn in these circumstances and at least they are consistent.)​
-- most pro-life people care more about judging and punishing a woman than they care for that 'innocent life'. (yeah, considering it punishment because the unborn is frequently referred to as a 'consequence')​
So IMO the dividing line re: abortion for pro-life supporters has nothing to do with the unborn, it's all about the woman and how they judge her culpability in the pregnancy.
Some things just bear repeating. Of course it's all about punishing women (or control), because cruelty is the point.
 
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