Why Democrats Are Not Supporting Israel

[Uncensored2008]

You realize that most Jewish people in the US vote dem right?

You realize that is rapidly changing, right?

For obvious reasons - to wit "It's Happening Again."

 

[Uncensored2008]

So you just accused a majority of Jewish people in this country as antisemitic, which shows the absurdity of your little rant.

Swing and a miss.

I'd chuckle and call it a good try, but it really was a rather lame attempt.

 

[cpwill]

If only those darn Israelis weren't Jews.
CNN’s Enten: Dems No Longer Pro-Israel — ‘They Are Now on Side of’ Palestinians

CNN's Enten: Dems No Longer Pro-Israel — 'They Are Now on Side of' Palestinians

CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten said Wednesday on CNN's "News Central" that Democrats were no longer pro-Israel when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict. | Clips

www.breitbart.com

CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten said Wednesday on CNN’s “News Central” that Democrats were no longer pro-Israel when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

While discussing Democratic New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani’s victory, Enten said, “Andrew Cuomo, during the primary, attacked Mamdani for being insufficiently pro-Israel. I’m not quite sure the former governor understood how much the politics have changed around this issue among Democrats.”

He continued, “Who do Democrats sympathize more with, Israelis or Palestinians? In 2017, the Democratic Party was a pro-Israeli party. Look at this. They sympathize with the Israelis by 13 points, more with the Israelis than the Palestinians.”

Enten added, “But look at this sea change now. Democrats sympathize more with the Palestinians by 43 points. Oh my God, that is a change in the margin of 56 points over the course of just eight years. So all of a sudden, it’s the pro-Palestinian position that actually reigns supreme in Democratic politics, not the Israeli position.

Their media has been hammering them with a mixture of HAMAS messaging and hostility to Israel since approximately Oct 8th 2023. We've seen a change in their positions as a result.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Let’s recap:

So a plurality of Jews voted for Antisemites.

I suspect by the midterms that will no longer be the case.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Their media has been hammering them with a mixture of HAMAS messaging and hostility to Israel since approximately Oct 8th 2023. We've seen a change in their positions as a result.

Bingo - the press is distinctly anti-Israel, as the handmaidens of the democrat party that they are.

 

[Ganondagan]

Those in the West Bank haven't and are subjected to violence at the hands of Israeli setters anyway.

Palestinians in the West Bank attack Israelis all the time, just not at the level of Hamas on Oct 7.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Palestinians in the West Bank attack Israelisall the time, just not at the level of Hamas on Oct 7.

The majority of the violence has almost exclusively been due to settlers who are vandalizing the property of Palestinians in a bid to continue chasing them off the land. The government has been systematically taking land as well, and splitting communities to the point a two state solution would require moving a large amount of of settlers. You are incorrect to even remotely try and equate what's gone on in the West Bank and Gaza.

 

[Jason Warfield]

I remember when Tom Clancy wrote about this whole mess as a possibility.

Way back in my independent conservative days, I read a lot of Clancy. I think it was in “Sum of All Fears” where he wrote about how American sentiment turned against Israel.

In the book, he wrote that the Palestinians finally figured out to stop throwing rocks and to not support the more radical of them to commit terrorist acts. The story went that they started to do peaceful protests against Israeli police and military.

An Israeli officer whose personal life had gone to crap re-found Judaism and went into it and was radicalized by a fellow soldier to take action to “save” Israel. During a peaceful protest, the officer went up to the leader of the protesters, and in front of cameras, shot and killed him.

In the book, due to the live filming of the murder, US citizens and politicians started to distance themselves from Israelis while others did not, creating a rift within the nation.

Remember , Clancy wrote this, so it’s not like he was being woke or anything when he wrote this book.

Weird on prescient he could be.

 

[Ganondagan]

The majority of the violence has almost exclusively been due to settlers who are vandalizing the property of Palestinians in a bid to continue chasing them off the land. The government has been systematically taking land as well, and splitting communities to the point a two state solution would require moving a large amount of of settlers. You are incorrect to even remotely try and equate what's gone on in the West Bank and Gaza.

There is never going to be a two state solution. Israel's muslim enemies will never accept a Jewish state in the Middle East. Their end goal is the destruction of Israel and death to the Jews.

 

[ElChupacabra]

There is never going to be a two state solution. Israel's muslim enemies will never accept a Jewish state in the Middle East. Their end goal is the destruction of Israel and death to the Jews.

Who are the Muslim enemies? I'm curious to hear about them given the peace treaties between Egypt and Jordan, and now the Abraham Accord nations.

 

[Surrealistik]

What land it that? Palestinian land is a made up fantasy created in 1960s.

The only reason Israel is not a fantasy is that it leveraged (and continues to leverage) state terrorism to slaughter, steal and terrorize itself into existence. The only legitimacy it ever had came from monstrous violence and criminality, and the willingness of countries to accept it.

 

[aociswundumho]

The only reason Israel is not a fantasy is that it leveraged (and continues to leverage) state terrorism to slaughter, steal and terrorize itself into existence.

It's not unusual for a state to be founded in violence. The US being the most prominent example (among many).

The only legitimacy it ever had came from monstrous violence and criminality, and the willingness of countries to accept it.

Please. Israel has maintained a functioning state for 75(?) years, with democratic institutions and a pretty strong economy. They're legit, whether you accept it or not.

 

[Surrealistik]

It's not unusual for a state to be founded in violence. The US being the most prominent example (among many).

Never claimed otherwise, though foundations owed to genocide and ethnic cleansing specifically as in the case of Israel (and the US, sure, but norms were very different then, and international law didn't exist), tend to be substantially more rare, particularly in the modern era.

Please. Israel has maintained a functioning state for 75(?) years, with democratic institutions and a pretty strong economy. They're legit, whether you accept it or not.

Reading comprehension. I never said they were 'illegitimate' (though Israel's origins are certainly unlawful at the least) I said its existence and legitimacy stems exclusively from the very horrors and criminality they supposedly resent and lament that they themselves have perpetuated and continue to perpetuate on an industrial scale.

 

[aociswundumho]

Who are the Muslim enemies? I'm curious to hear about them given the peace treaties between Egypt and Jordan, and now the Abraham Accord nations.

True, but hezbollah, hamas, and al-qaeda still exist and are driven by Islam, but they don’t represent entire nations or the muslim world.

 

[Yes_Minister]

It's not unusual for a state to be founded in violence. The US being the most prominent example (among many).



Please. Israel has maintained a functioning state for 75(?) years, with democratic institutions and a pretty strong economy. They're legit, whether you accept it or not.

Hey Mr. ''small government'', do you think Israel's actions in Palestine correspond with your supposed ''small government'' ideology?

 

[aociswundumho]

Hey Mr. ''small government'', do you think Israel's actions in Palestine correspond with your supposed ''small government'' ideology?

They do not, but I don't see how that's relevant to whether Israel is legit.

 

[Yes_Minister]

They do not, but I don't see how that's relevant to whether Israel is legit.

Whether Israel is legit or not doesn't make a lot of their actions illegitimate in this war and in public policy in general.

 

[aociswundumho]

Never claimed otherwise,

Good, so the "founded in violence" argument goes away.

Reading comprehension. I never said they were 'illegitimate' (though Israel's origins are certainly unlawful at the least)

You accuse me of poor reading comprehension, but look at that sentence. Saying Israel’s origins are unlawful heavily implies illegitimacy.

I said its existence and legitimacy stems exclusively from the very horrors and criminality they supposedly resent and lament that they themselves have perpetuated and continue to perpetuate on an industrial scale.

My poor reading comprehension tells me saying a state's only legitimacy comes from "horrors and criminality", is just another way of saying it is illegitimate.

 

[aociswundumho]

Whether Israel is legit or not doesn't make a lot of their actions illegitimate in this war and in public policy in general.

That's the second time you brought up something irrelevant to the issue.

 

[Yes_Minister]

That's the second time you brought up something irrelevant to the issue.

What's the issue, some semantic debate about whether Israel is a legitimate state or not, or actually trying to come up with solutions to these problems that are better than ''maintain the status quo'' or ''allow Israel to ethnically cleanse Palestine''? Because the OP seems to suggest that being for Palestinian rights in of itself is not legitimate, which means arguing for the two things I mentioned, and I am just pointing out that would contradict your supposed small government ideology.

 

[Felis Leo]

If only those darn Israelis weren't Jews.

CNN’s Enten: Dems No Longer Pro-Israel — ‘They Are Now on Side of’ Palestinians​

CNN's Enten: Dems No Longer Pro-Israel — 'They Are Now on Side of' Palestinians

CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten said Wednesday on CNN's "News Central" that Democrats were no longer pro-Israel when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict. | Clips

www.breitbart.com

CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten said Wednesday on CNN’s “News Central” that Democrats were no longer pro-Israel when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

While discussing Democratic New York City mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani’s victory, Enten said, “Andrew Cuomo, during the primary, attacked Mamdani for being insufficiently pro-Israel. I’m not quite sure the former governor understood how much the politics have changed around this issue among Democrats.”

He continued, “Who do Democrats sympathize more with, Israelis or Palestinians? In 2017, the Democratic Party was a pro-Israeli party. Look at this. They sympathize with the Israelis by 13 points, more with the Israelis than the Palestinians.”

Enten added, “But look at this sea change now. Democrats sympathize more with the Palestinians by 43 points. Oh my God, that is a change in the margin of 56 points over the course of just eight years. So all of a sudden, it’s the pro-Palestinian position that actually reigns supreme in Democratic politics, not the Israeli position.

If polling is correct, a majority of Americans do not like Israel, Ganondagan. By latest polling, 53% of Americans have a negative view of Israel. Israel is doing little in the way of winning hearts and minds, especially not when the Israeli military massacres Palestinian civilians lining up for aid, murders aid workers, and guns down their own hostages (and Israel's own ministers say that rescuing the few remaining Israeli hostages is no longer a top priority for them).

 

[Surrealistik]

Good, so the "founded in violence" argument goes away.

Not at all, particularly given the modern, illegal, exceptional and egregious nature of the violence that Israel was founded with during a time when international law existed; this is not merely a case of feuding countries trading/relinquishing contested territories.

You accuse me of poor reading comprehension, but look at that sentence. Saying Israel’s origins are unlawful heavily implies illegitimacy.

It's factual.

My poor reading comprehension tells me saying a state's only legitimacy comes from "horrors and criminality", is just another way of saying it is illegitimate.

As above, it's simply the truth; Israel owes its creation to terrorism, criminality and ethnic cleansing, all of which it continues to engage in to this day. If that fact bothers you, that's great; it probably should. What I didn't actually say however is that Israel is illegitimate.

 

[Felis Leo]

Well, the left in America might feel that way. The right in America is quite pro-Israel.

You should say the American right-wing is still pro-Israel, but only just barely, and the number of people on the right who are pro-Israel is dropping just like everyone else. By the most recent polls, more than half of Americans (53%) across the political spectrum dislike Israel. Nearly half of younger conservatives (48%) do not like Israel. If views hold, as old pro-Israel conservatives pass on, their ranks will not be replenished.

How Americans view Israel and the Israel-Hamas war at the start of Trump’s second term

A slight majority of Americans (54%) say the Israel-Hamas war is either very or somewhat important to them personally.

www.pewresearch.org

Eventually, Israel will be truly alone with no real strong diplomatic, economic or military alliances, and support for Israel will become like support for Rhodesia, i.e., the domain of the fringe right and wealthy Jewish-supremacists, doomed to eventual failed statehood.

 

[Felis Leo]

Their media has been hammering them with a mixture of HAMAS messaging and hostility to Israel since approximately Oct 8th 2023. We've seen a change in their positions as a result.

Wait, what "Hamas messaging", cpwill? Are you of the opinion that everyone in the United States who is condemnatory of Israel's actions in Gaza is either utterly misinformed or supports a genocidal antisemitic Islamist terrorist organization? That there cannot be a good faith disagreement in values that is not informed by ignorance or evil?

 

[Dans La Lune]

I strongly urge you not to do that.

Everyone's been urging the IDF not to do that, but it's fallen on deaf ears.

Responsible for what? Fighting back against Hamas?

Please explain how snipering children in the head is fighting back against Hamas. And then we'll go down the list of Israel's other atrocities.

FYI: Under international law, the occupier cannot claim self-defense against the occupied.

Under International Law, Israel Isn’t Entitled to “Self-Defense” Against People Living Under Its Occupation

Biden is claiming that Israel’s war crimes against Palestinian civilians are justified in the name of “self-defense.”…

truthout.org