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Why Can't We Fix It Ourselves?

TheHammer

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If money is political free speech, then your amount of political free speech depends on how rich you are and what you’re willing to pay to exhibit your alleged “free” speech. Poor people have little to no “free” speech, i.e. Individual voice, because apparently political speech isn’t “free.”


If political speech has value, and an America principle is “equal protection” of the laws for everybody, then it goes without saying that at least as so far as “political” speech goes, the law of the land should reflect a mandate that political speech be made “equal” for every citizen.


Why can’t/shouldn’t concerned citizens who acknowledge that American politics is corrupted by money and bribery and especially so by collective special interest and the BIG money Two Party System, Why don’t we gather together and debate and solve that situation while still respecting the Constitution and it’s Bill Of Rights and petition the government to reform the system?


Opinions and arguments, please! Let’s go for it.
 
TheHammer said:
Why don’t we gather together and debate and solve that situation while still respecting the Constitution and it’s Bill Of Rights and petition the government to reform the system?
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And do what? The Foxes are guarding the hen house, so Congress won't do anything to stop it.

Electing new politicians to Congress won't stop it. As soon as they get in office the next day lobbyists with buckets full of money show up at their door. They'll be corrupted in a month.

So what do we do?
 

Why cant we fix it? because our actions have created the problem, our current attitudes to fix to problem only exacerbate it and on top of it all most people dont even have a grasp on what the problem is
 
"Why can't we fix the problem of people having rights?"


My. What a very libertarian assumption built into that question.
 
We, the people, are supposed to be in charge of the government, and not the other way around. We should be able to solve the problem of money controlling government, and we could theoretically. Unfortunately, the people are complacent, they vote for the candidate with the best ad campaign, and ad campaigns are where they spend the special interest money with which they've been purchased.

The best weapon in the fight is the DVR. Record all programs and fast forward through the commercials.

And, if that doesn't work, just keep a count of who has aired the most political ads, and vote for the candidate who has aired the fewest. That will be the person who has taken the least amount of money.
 

Abolish democracy. As long as rulers are chosen through mass elections, the problems you present can never be fixed.
 
cpwill said:
"Why can't we fix the problem of people having rights?"


My. What a very libertarian assumption built into that question.
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Money is speech, corporations are persons. Those are some fundamental, traditional, conservative ideas there, I'll tell you what!
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
And do what? The Foxes are guarding the hen house, so Congress won't do anything to stop it.
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Why aren’t we the American citizens the “Hen House?” Why do we need Congress to figure out what has to be done? Once we figure it out, then we petition the government. We can’t start anything unless we are concerned and ambitious enough to have at it, right?

Electing new politicians to Congress won't stop it. As soon as they get in office the next day lobbyists with buckets full of money show up at their door. They'll be corrupted in a month.

So what do we do?
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How about we ignore “new politicians” for now and do our own thing? How about we discuss it, debate it and actually come up with a solution. I agree that the lobbyist are a major part of the problem. So, how do we constitutionally get rid of the lobbyist? Got any ideas?
 
Paleocon said:
Abolish democracy. As long as rulers are chosen through mass elections, the problems you present can never be fixed.
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LOL....dynastic....or tyrannical succession....is the cure.....to get money out of politics!


BRILLIANT!
 

Being successful is terrible ! :roll:
 
Crovax said:
Why cant we fix it? because our actions have created the problem, our current attitudes to fix to problem only exacerbate it and on top of it all most people dont even have a grasp on what the problem is
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How about you? Do you have a grasp of what the problems are? Do you have any ideas that would solve the situation? Are you willing to articulate and debate them? How hard is it to simply throw your hands up in defeat and leave it to somebody, (maybe nobody), else? Can't anybody just do that?
 
cpwill said:
"Why can't we fix the problem of people having rights?"


My. What a very libertarian assumption built into that question.
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I'll just put you down as disinterested and defeated, OK?
 
Paleocon said:
Abolish democracy. As long as rulers are chosen through mass elections, the problems you present can never be fixed.
Click to expand...

Not even worth a lonely try, right?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Money is speech, corporations are persons. Those are some fundamental, traditional, conservative ideas there, I'll tell you what!
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So, your right to your amount of "alleged" free speech is solely dependent on your economic condition and to hell with "equal protection" of the law for every citizen, correct? Is that your idea of good government and equal amounts of freedom?
 
cpwill said:
"Why can't we fix the problem of people having rights?"

My. What a very libertarian assumption built into that question.
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What rights we do have are unlimited and cannot be infringed on in any way? :shock:
 

You seem like you want to ignore the government, you're saying that we don't need the government. But then you say we may need to 'constitutionally get rid of the lobbyist'. How do we do change the Constitution without the government?

What you are saying all goes back to my 1st point. The Foxes are guarding the hen house. Until that changes(and without burning down the whole house it won't change) the lobbyists, the big money, the corruption will not go away.
 

The American people will only be the guards of the hen house when American citizens collectively are educated, informed and interested in the political process. Unfortunately, you've got the educational system which trains them to be self-centered and complacent, you've got the political parties that tell them to shut up and sit down and you've got so many other things in life that get in the way of being actually interested in the way the government, that you will probably never see this and the government, which is inherently corrupt and corrupting, has zero interest in ever changing anything without a revolution, which is what it would take and which will never, ever happen.


It isn't the politicians that are the problem, we can elect all the new politicians we want, the system corrupts each and every one of them. If they want to get anything done in Washington, they have to become corrupted. If they don't become corrupted, they accomplish nothing and get booted out as ineffective in the next election. And nothing will ever be done Constitutionally because the American people are so ideologically deadlocked that they will never come together again to vote for an amendment.

We're screwed.
 
TheHammer said:
Not even worth a lonely try, right?
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Mass democracy means rule by the controllers of public opinion. I suppose you can try to change exactly who that is, but you can't fix the real problem.
 
Money is not speech. It is volume. It allows you to turn your speech up louder than everyone else and drown them out. Laws against how loud you can be in public have existed forever and should applicable here as well.
 
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