Why can some have guns and not others?

[TurtleDude]

What you have to realize is that not all liberals are "gun banners". I know the NRA and such don't tell you that. Most mainstream liberals like myself are reasonable, rational human beings. Yes, there are some crazies....just like there are on the far right. But for the most part, that's not the case.

I know that-ever heard of radical NYC attorney Ron Kuby? he used to have a "when guns are outlawed, I will be an outlaw on his car many years ago. But the fact remains

every federal restriction on our 2A rights was proposed and passed mainly by Dems. All but one was signed into law by a Dem (Reagan signed a mostly pro gun bill that contained an improperly added machine gun ban that was a poison pill put in by DEMOCRATS)

every gun hater on this board is a liberal or a progressive though one claims to be a libertarian

 

[roughdraft274]

1) Why would they advocate a loophole openly?

I take that as you saying you have no evidence. Thanks.

 

[TurtleDude]

I take that as you saying you have no evidence. Thanks.

None of the measures the Democrats have advocated are supported by evidence

BTW do you support Obama's latest move to harass gun ownership?

 

[Steelplate]

I know that-ever heard of radical NYC attorney Ron Kuby? he used to have a "when guns are outlawed, I will be an outlaw on his car many years ago. But the fact remains

every federal restriction on our 2A rights was proposed and passed mainly by Dems. All but one was signed into law by a Dem (Reagan signed a mostly pro gun bill that contained an improperly added machine gun ban that was a poison pill put in by DEMOCRATS)

every gun hater on this board is a liberal or a progressive though one claims to be a libertarian

You know there is a simple solution to this.....I used to be a Republican from 1983-2006....my leanings were always more on the side of compassion for the little guy, so oft times I voted my conscience rather than party....plus I am pro-labor...so that kind of put me in Democratic territory anyway....but the GOP decided to turn hateful and started calling me and people like me a "RINO" and claimed we weren't welcome anymore....so I left and became a Dem.

The solution is that you need to stop blaming the poor for being poor. Embrace the fact that we all need to survive, live and even thrive in this country and that most people don't have the money, educational fundamentals or perhaps even intelligence to go get a degree in the latest hot new field.

If you do that? Gun control will become a fading issue. Because the inner city poor will have real jobs and will slowly reverse course from drug dealing, gang affiliations and killing each other in the street....because they'll have better, safer and more secure options. I am of the belief that most of the calls for gun control come from these areas of our country, and their representation is doing exactly what their desperate constituents are asking....which is their JOB.

 

[TurtleDude]

You know there is a simple solution to this.....I used to be a Republican from 1983-2006....my leanings were always more on the side of compassion for the little guy, so oft times I voted my conscience rather than party....plus I am pro-labor...so that kind of put me in Democratic territory anyway....but the GOP decided to turn hateful and started calling me and people like me a "RINO" and claimed we weren't welcome anymore....so I left and became a Dem.

The solution is that you need to stop blaming the poor for being poor. Embrace the fact that we all need to survive, live and even thrive in this country and that most people don't have the money, educational fundamentals or perhaps even intelligence to go get a degree in the latest hot new field.

If you do that? Gun control will become a fading issue. Because the inner city poor will have real jobs and will slowly reverse course from drug dealing, gang affiliations and killing each other in the street....because they'll have better, safer and more secure options. I am of the belief that most of the calls for gun control come from these areas of our country, and their representation is doing exactly what their desperate constituents are asking....which is their JOB.

those who push gun control don't care about stopping crime. and the rich dems don't want people getting out of poverty and becoming less dependent on those rich dems giving them handouts for votes

 

[Steelplate]

those who push gun control don't care about stopping crime. and the rich dems don't want people getting out of poverty and becoming less dependent on those rich dems giving them handouts for votes

Ok...now you're just spewing the Tea Party line. If you can't think beyond what the AM radio boys tell you then this conversation is likely over.

The Representatives who push gun control most certainly care about crime...especially VIOLENT crime.

Let me ask you....pretend for a moment that you are a Representativeof an inner city district. You have people every day that complain about shootings, deaths and gangs. You are a duly elected representative of these people. You are just going to ignore their pleas for help?

AM radio wants you to believe it's a grand Socialist conspiracy, the NRA wants you to believe it's some grand Socialist Conspiracy....but the truth is...there are people with lived ones dying every damned day because of this.

Solve the problem instead of chasing symptoms....just like I said in the abortion thread.

 

[LaMidRighter]

those who push gun control don't care about stopping crime. and the rich dems don't want people getting out of poverty and becoming less dependent on those rich dems giving them handouts for votes

That is obvious with the constant expansions of their programs to families that are well off, and the obnoxious commercials they produced to get people onto the programs who have no business being there. The government actually wasted money producing ads to get people on social programs like food stamps especially, THEN waste it in perpetuity running the ads on private radio stations.

 

[TurtleDude]

Ok...now you're just spewing the Tea Party line. If you can't think beyond what the AM radio boys tell you then this conversation is likely over.

The Representatives who push gun control most certainly care about crime...especially VIOLENT crime.

Let me ask you....pretend for a moment that you are a Representativeof an inner city district. You have people every day that complain about shootings, deaths and gangs. You are a duly elected representative of these people. You are just going to ignore their pleas for help?

AM radio wants you to believe it's a grand Socialist conspiracy, the NRA wants you to believe it's some grand Socialist Conspiracy....but the truth is...there are people with lived ones dying every damned day because of this.

Solve the problem instead of chasing symptoms....just like I said in the abortion thread.

that's BS

Obama talks about violent crime

but he bans the import of 70 year old service rifles that are almost never used in crime

AR 15 style rifles-used in less than 2% of the murders but your Dem leaders want to ban them

only a moron thinks that banning guns is going to stop people dealing banned drugs and committing capital murder from getting them



now for the weak minded sheep, they might believe that BS

Hook Sarah brady up to a lie detector or those dem gun pushers and I bet you my house they are lying their asses off as to what motivates them

 

[Steelplate]

that's BS

Obama talks about violent crime

but he bans the import of 70 year old service rifles that are almost never used in crime

AR 15 style rifles-used in less than 2% of the murders but your Dem leaders want to ban them

only a moron thinks that banning guns is going to stop people dealing banned drugs and committing capital murder from getting them



now for the weak minded sheep, they might believe that BS

Hook Sarah brady up to a lie detector or those dem gun pushers and I bet you my house they are lying their asses off as to what motivates them

When have AR-15's been banned? You lie.

 

[MACS-24]

When have AR-15's been banned? You lie.

that's BS

Obama talks about violent crime

but he bans the import of 70 year old service rifles that are almost never used in crime

AR 15 style rifles-used in less than 2% of the murders but your Dem leaders want to ban them

only a moron thinks that banning guns is going to stop people dealing banned drugs and committing capital murder from getting them



now for the weak minded sheep, they might believe that BS

Hook Sarah brady up to a lie detector or those dem gun pushers and I bet you my house they are lying their asses off as to what motivates them

Been living under a rock, Steel? So there was no ban in the 90's? Notice bold underline - key word.

 

[Steelplate]

Been living under a rock, Steel? So there was no ban in the 90's? Notice bold underline - key word.

Obama was president in the 90's?

 

[blackjack50]

Ok...now you're just spewing the Tea Party line. If you can't think beyond what the AM radio boys tell you then this conversation is likely over.

The Representatives who push gun control most certainly care about crime...especially VIOLENT crime.

Let me ask you....pretend for a moment that you are a Representativeof an inner city district. You have people every day that complain about shootings, deaths and gangs. You are a duly elected representative of these people. You are just going to ignore their pleas for help?

AM radio wants you to believe it's a grand Socialist conspiracy, the NRA wants you to believe it's some grand Socialist Conspiracy....but the truth is...there are people with lived ones dying every damned day because of this.

Solve the problem instead of chasing symptoms....just like I said in the abortion thread.

Hahahahaha!!!!!!

The "inner city" reps only care about votes. The reality is that their violence problems are brought on by crappy education programs, poor police presence, and poverty. It is awfully hard to solve those problems with a liberal agenda that pushes out small business and anyone with money. So why would they focus on guns?

Well it certainly could be that it makes them "look" like they are doing something. With all the gun control in Chicago, what has it done for their violence problem? Not much right? An inner city politician complaining about guns is the same as them complaining about their education system. Pass the blame and provide a "schematic" to a "utopian dream society" of no violence and high education. Ignoring the fact that all this stuff only sounds good, but isn't realistically applicable.

You would get more traction debating for drug legalization to reduce violence. Guns are a tool used by both the good and bad for their own ends. The bad to prey on the good, the good to stop the bad. Only one of those groups care what the government says.

 

[blackjack50]

Obama was president in the 90's?

He supported the renewal of CLINTON'S assault weapons ban. You can't make that leap?

And. Tell me. What impact would banning assault weapons have?

 

[Steelplate]

He supported the renewal of CLINTON'S assault weapons ban. You can't make that leap?

And. Tell me. What impact would banning assault weapons have?

Who said I was for banning anything? In fact, I think I specifically said I wasn't.

Tell you what.....stop your 2nd Amendemnet buddies from selling to criminals and madmen with straw sales and gun shows that have a "wink wink/nudge nudge" policy.

Sometimes I think that's why some of you guys hated Toomey/Manchin....because some of you are either....

A. People with criminal records who can't get a gun any other way.

Or

B. People who make a lot of money by selling to criminals.

 

[TurtleDude]

When have AR-15's been banned? You lie.

You lose. the clinton gun ban banned many versions of the AR 15
the California gun bans prevent people from buying them

and I SAID (you didn't read very well) DEM LEADERS WANT TO BAN THEM)

 

[TurtleDude]

Been living under a rock, Steel? So there was no ban in the 90's? Notice bold underline - key word.

He didn't read what I wrote. I said Dem leaders want to ban them. He must have been sleeping for months after Newtown.

He must have missed Diane Finetard admitting in the mid 1990s that if she had the votes she would have banned ALL SEMI AUTOS

I never said they were completely banned-

 

[TurtleDude]

Who said I was for banning anything? In fact, I think I specifically said I wasn't.

Tell you what.....stop your 2nd Amendemnet buddies from selling to criminals and madmen with straw sales and gun shows that have a "wink wink/nudge nudge" policy.

Sometimes I think that's why some of you guys hated Toomey/Manchin....because some of you are either....

A. People with criminal records who can't get a gun any other way.

Or

B. People who make a lot of money by selling to criminals.

all of that is already illegal.

 

[Steelplate]

all of that is already illegal.

Sure it is....but you don't want the status quo to change....so that leaves the possibility that those few people in the country(I believe it was 8%) that were opposed to Toomey/Manchin could easily fall into the categories I listed.

Selling to criminals is illegal. But in a private sale, there's no oversight. All you have to say is "Geez....he seemed alright to me".

 

[Steelplate]

He didn't read what I wrote. I said Dem leaders want to ban them. He must have been sleeping for months after Newtown.

He must have missed Diane Finetard admitting in the mid 1990s that if she had the votes she would have banned ALL SEMI AUTOS

I never said they were completely banned-

Some Dem leaders may want to ban them.....not all...You gave one person's name.

After Newtown came a bipartisan bill designed to try to keep more illegal weapons out of the hands of criminals and madmen....it was called Toomey/Manchin. Which I support.


EDIT: let me guess you are one of those "armed rebellion" guys.

 

[TurtleDude]

Sure it is....but you don't want the status quo to change....so that leaves the possibility that those few people in the country(I believe it was 8%) that were opposed to Toomey/Manchin could easily fall into the categories I listed.

Selling to criminals is illegal. But in a private sale, there's no oversight. All you have to say is "Geez....he seemed alright to me".

most of us who actually understand these issues reject feel good measures that are doomed to failure and when they fail will be used by scum Like Biden to justify more drastic measures. Without gun registration there is no way to determine if Billy Bob's sale of a gun he had owned before the Universal BG Checks were instituted was sold to Leroy.

The reason why background check laws are easily enforced as to dealers is that dealers have to log in every gun they receive and sell and the ATF knows which weapons were sold in wholesale to the dealers.

So the real drive for UBGC is to impose the same record keeping on private citizens

 

[TurtleDude]

Some Dem leaders may want to ban them.....not all...You gave one person's name.

After Newtown came a bipartisan bill designed to try to keep more illegal weapons out of the hands of criminals and madmen....it was called Toomey/Manchin. Which I support.


EDIT: let me guess you are one of those "armed rebellion" guys.

your beloved M-T bill will not.

and the brady bill which required FFLs do that was not able to decrease violent crime in the least.

Edit-Let me guess-You have no clue about me other than

1) I know more about gun laws and guns than just about anyone you will meet

2) I am opposed to schemes that are designed to disarm honest american citizens

3) I don't feel a NEED TO DO SOMETHING everytime there is a tragedy especially tragedies that are not preventable other than the victims being armed and able to kill the perpetrator

 

[roughdraft274]

None of the measures the Democrats have advocated are supported by evidence

BTW do you support Obama's latest move to harass gun ownership?

This has nothing to do with the thread, so I'm only giving you a short response and won't comment on it further.

No, I don't support it. I don't think it will stop any crimes or any deaths. It makes no sense.

 

[TurtleDude]

This has nothing to do with the thread, so I'm only giving you a short response and won't comment on it further.

No, I don't support it. I don't think it will stop any crimes or any deaths. It makes no sense.

good post but mine did have something to do with this thread Obama has people with 15-36 round magazines protecting him and he doesn't think the rest of us should be able to have these same weapons. So a guy who is protected by tax dollar supplied armed men is against the rest of us citizens being able to freely owned guns

 

[roughdraft274]

good post but mine did have something to do with this thread Obama has people with 15-36 round magazines protecting him and he doesn't think the rest of us should be able to have these same weapons. So a guy who is protected by tax dollar supplied armed men is against the rest of us citizens being able to freely owned guns

Lol, the president is a completely different situation. He, quite obviously, needs more security than anyone else in the entire world pretty much. I wouldn't advocate for anyone else to have exemptions for there security, but the President should get them. Just because a weapon is used to protect the president doesn't mean it should be legal.

 

[TurtleDude]

Lol, the president is a completely different situation. He, quite obviously, needs more security than anyone else in the entire world pretty much. I wouldn't advocate for anyone else to have exemptions for there security, but the President should get them. Just because a weapon is used to protect the president doesn't mean it should be legal.

sure it should because it proves the weapon is very suitable for protecting a civilian in a mostly civilian environment. and I see my local doctor, barber or shopkeeper's life being as valuable as that of any politician's