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Why are we here.

Felis Leo said:
The same reason as everyone else. To eventually serve as fuel for the creation of black holes, apparently.
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Perhaps it's the other way around; we are here to figure out how to harness black holes as a source of energy? I mean, if there were a deity out there trying to come up with a grandiose use case for the creation of life... it could do worse than "to bend black holes to one's whim" ...
 
No real reason. I was born. Thats it.
 
Fishking said:
In purely secular reasoning, there is no purpose. We haven't been around that long, on the grand scheme of things and at any point it could all end, multiple ways, be it a giant asteroid or w/e and then billions of years will pass without us.
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That's pretty much my view.

While I don't think there is an inherent (divine) purpose, I think everyone can find what is meaningful and purposeful to themselves.
 
HIP56948 said:
To Serve Man
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:)
 
watsup said:
If “not a single person” has figured out an overarching philosophical-based reason as to why we are here, then the most likely explanation is that there simply is not one. Occam’s Razor. To then go on to claim that it is somehow being hidden is definitely a bridge too far.
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Have a little faith. 😉
 
Emily L said:
Nat, the way it was once explained to me, evolution is always aimed at something, usually reproduction (some add "survival," but that can be said to be for reproduction, too). For example, we have eyes so we can see danger coming, legs to run away from it, etc.

But if evolution has reproduction as its reason, then what's the reason for reproduction? It must be to reach some kind of goal. That, itself, raises another question--why does evolution continue to produce animals that die of old age? And if reproduction is its goal, why do some animals eat other animals? Why didn't evolution create nothing but vegetarian animals?

I believe there are answers to all of that--we just haven't discovered them yet. But whenever we do, I think it will make sense to us and will give us a secular, scientific reason for our existence.

(For the record, I'll still prefer the religious one, though. :) )
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Depends on what you mean by “reason” in this contexts. Evolution is a consequence of the natural forces in our world. So in that sense, the “reason” for our existence is the same reason steam wafts from your freshly poured cup of coffee. But there doesn’t need to be a reason beyond a consequence of natural forces.

An no, evolution as a force is quite random (at least as far as we know). Change in species begins with a random genetic mutation. The success of that mutation then depends on environmental pressure and the likelihood of more copies of that mutated gene being left in the next generation. Beyond creating more copies of that gene (or any gene), there is no “aim” of evolution.
 
NatMorton said:
Depends on what you mean by “reason” in this contexts. Evolution is a consequence of the natural forces in our world. So in that sense, the “reason” for our existence is the same reason steam wafts from your freshly poured cup of coffee. But there doesn’t need to be a reason beyond a consequence of natural forces.

An no, evolution as a force is quite random (at least as far as we know). Change in species begins with a random genetic mutation. The success of that mutation then depends on environmental pressure and the likelihood of more copies of that mutated gene being left in the next generation. Beyond creating more copies of that gene (or any gene), there is no “aim” of evolution.
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That makes sense, Nat, but the survival theory (I think) is based on what appears to be a "goal" of evolution. For example, a particular organism developed an eye, which enabled it to avoid danger. Therefore, organisms that didn't have that advantage died out quicker than did the ones with the eye. Every development that aided in survival seemed to win out, so we have ended up with (so far) animals that can breathe while out of water, brains that can think their way out of a jam, muscle-bound guys who make matting more attractive ( :) ), etc.

I know it sounds kind of crazy that a non-thinking entity like nature would have a "goal," but that appears to be a theory that a number of our scientists seem to agree on.

(Nat, as I am writing this, I just heard a loud crack of thunder and it made me jump. That, I think, fits right into the survival theory, that is, I jumped because something inside me knew that a loud noise might mean danger. Plus, I'm a scaredy-cat. :) )
 
Emily L said:
That makes sense, Nat, but the survival theory (I think) is based on what appears to be a "goal" of evolution. For example, a particular organism developed an eye, which enabled it to avoid danger. Therefore, organisms that didn't have that advantage died out quicker than did the ones with the eye. Every development that aided in survival seemed to win out, so we have ended up with (so far) animals that can breathe while out of water, brains that can think their way out of a jam, muscle-bound guys who make matting more attractive ( :) ), etc.

I know it sounds kind of crazy that a non-thinking entity like nature would have a "goal," but that appears to be a theory that a number of our scientists seem to agree on.

(Nat, as I am writing this, I just heard a loud crack of thunder and it made me jump. That, I think, fits right into the survival theory, that is, I jumped because something inside me knew that a loud noise might mean danger. Plus, I'm a scaredy-cat. :) )
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I think you need to let go of the idea that there evolution has a “goal.” That implies someone is in control of evolution and has an objective. The laws of nature are what that are. Newton’s apple didn’t have a “goal” or a plan. It just fell. Similarly, evolution may just happen.
 
NatMorton said:
I think you need to let go of the idea that there evolution has a “goal.” That implies someone is in control of evolution and has an objective. The laws of nature are what that are. Newton’s apple didn’t have a “goal” or a plan. It just fell. Similarly, evolution may just happen.
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But, Nat, that's the way I mean it. When I say "goal," I don't mean a conscious effort to obtain something. I mean it like a "destination" that nature seems to aim toward. Newton's apple's "destination" was the ground, and Newton figured out that it was due to the gravity that masses have.

As far as living things go, they seemed to be headed toward something. We can say the destination (or goal) is survival, but then we have to ask, why survival?

Nat, I'm a Christian, and I love science, and I can keep the two separate--which is what I am doing here. I can do that because I don't think you can get to God through science, but that God wants us to use science in a good way, to understand how His beautiful universe works.

So, when I say nature has a "goal," I'm just talking about using the Scientific Method--and logic--to try to figure out where things seem to be headed, and why they seem to be headed that way.
 
No good reason. If I think about it too much, I get suicidal. So I don't think about it much.
 
watsup said:
Beyond that, in a more philosophical sense, I would say that every person has to make their own decision.
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Are we assuming that people genuinely are capable of making decisions?

I'm here for the ride. There is no why.
 
No one knows, and no one knows how to figure it out. There may be some sort of grand plan, and I tend to think there is. But being unable to discover that grand plan with any level of confidence, I find myself in an existentialist position, having to make up purposes and meanings, and doing things to keep myself occupied so that I don't think about these questions too much.
 
watsup said:
I guess that this has been discussed time and again in freshman dorm debate sessions, but I thought I’d give it another shot.
As far as I can tell, we are here because of the Big Bang, abiogenesis, and evolution. Beyond that, in a more philosophical sense, I would say that every person has to make their own decision. In some cases, that decision leads to evil and hopefully, in most cases. It leads to a positive life in good coherence with the other humans on the planet. In my case, I use Humanism as a guideline for determining the answer, which is basically the last phrase of the previous sentence.
Why are you here?
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We are here because of unavoidable chance.
 
Tlrmln said:
Are we assuming that people genuinely are capable of making decisions?

I'm here for the ride. There is no why.
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Are you saying we don't have free will?
 
noonereal said:
Are you saying we don't have free will?
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Free will is an inescapable illusion caused by the inability of any thinking being to foresee its own future.

I was simply stunned to hear a Christian declare that God is finite (a week ago, here). Without the ability to foresee His own future, that barely seems like a God at all.
 
noonereal said:
Wow! You get it!

Surprisingly few do.
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And the inference is there that other animals have their own form of free will. Even earthworms make choices, weigh risk with reward, and learn from experience.

The reason I mention this, is that we struggle to imagine what more intelligent life than ourselves, would experience in the way of free will. Complicated by the fact that raw intelligence doesn't automatically acquire knowledge of the world, memory is required, and teaching/study is too. Without records of what other people have discovered, any one of us would be effectively a moron. At best a peasant, knowing well only what our parents knew.

But if vastly LESS intelligent creatures also have free will, then we can presume that it is never penetrated by intelligence alone. Knowing one's future requires knowing all the choices one will make, which I think of as the "no intelligence can model itself" problem.

BTW, the finite God idea did at least explain why God would make greatly inferior creatures in large numbers. Predicting the whole of society is an immensely greater computation than predicting just one individual. So a finite God might well create people and all the other animals, to have something to learn from, and thus escape solipsism. Not that I'm sold on God of course. He is just slightly more plausible when imagined as finite.
 
Just because we can construct arguments that there’s no free will, doesn’t mean there’s no free will. We can’t explain the apparent existence of mind and consciousness in a physical world, so we’re not in a good position to understand ‘will’ nor comment on how ‘free’ it may be. We do know that it can’t be entirely free because it’s subject to hardwired instincts and biases, learned habits and biases, and situational and sociocultural influences.
 
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