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Who's going first? #2

akyron

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Naughty Nurse said:
Tell that to the millions of people who are dying for lack of a condom!

Their deaths can also be attributed to a lack of good sense and a morally ambiguous choice of lifestyle or a lack of self control. There are other ways to get it now but at the beginning that was it.
 

Fried Rice

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Re: Who's going first?

akyron said:
Their deaths can also be attributed to a lack of good sense and a morally ambiguous choice of lifestyle or a lack of self control. There are other ways to get it now but at the beginning that was it.
You should come down from your tower and visit the real world sometime. Are you one of those catholics weeping for your dead pope ? Everything is always "Gods will" except for the nasty things you cant explain like AIDS and then it is suddenly 'human choice". Maybe you need to ask why your God made you such an idiot.
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

Fried Rice said:
You should come down from your tower and visit the real world sometime. Are you one of those catholics weeping for your dead pope ? Everything is always "Gods will" except for the nasty things you cant explain like AIDS and then it is suddenly 'human choice". Maybe you need to ask why your God made you such an idiot.


We can explain AIDs. Guys screw each other up the butt. Playing around with doodoo and you are bound to get something.
 

Squawker

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Re: Who's going first?

Rather than delete your posts, I moved it here. This is a bit too graphic and inflammitory for the topic of the thread. If you wish to continue posting in the basement, stay out of the wine cellar. :eek:)
 
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akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

Anyway the point was it is highly unlikely millions of people are dying of AIDS because of any topic the Pope might have expressed his opinion on.

Sorry I was bored at work and I wanted to liven things up a little.
I got a laugh out of it but I apologize for any offense that delicate individuals might have incurred.

Thanks Pope.
 

shuamort

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Re: Who's going first?

akyron said:
Anyway the point was it is highly unlikely millions of people are dying of AIDS because of any topic the Pope might have expressed his opinion on.

Sorry I was bored at work and I wanted to liven things up a little.
I got a laugh out of it but I apologize for any offense that delicate individuals might have incurred.

Thanks Pope.
You mean that the pandemic of AIDS contractions in Africa between straight people have nothing to do with the fact that the Pope spoke out against condoms and the fact that the largest continent of catholics (and rising) is Africa?
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

shuamort said:
You mean that the pandemic of AIDS contractions in Africa between straight people have nothing to do with the fact that the Pope spoke out against condoms and the fact that the largest continent of catholics (and rising) is Africa?

He also said

"Fidelity within marriage and abstinence outside it are the only sure ways to limit the further spread of infection.

"Communicating this message must be a key element in the Churchs response to the epidemic," he wrote. "It especially grieves me to consider the many thousands of children left as orphans in the wake of the merciless virus."



People do what they want. If they were able to follow common sense rules we would not be in such sorry shape.
 

shuamort

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Re: Who's going first?

akyron said:
He also said

"Fidelity within marriage and abstinence outside it are the only sure ways to limit the further spread of infection.

"Communicating this message must be a key element in the Churchs response to the epidemic," he wrote. "It especially grieves me to consider the many thousands of children left as orphans in the wake of the merciless virus."



People do what they want. If they were able to follow common sense rules we would not be in such sorry shape.
Limit, not stop.
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

It is funny but you have me arguing for the Pope when I do not care for religions in general.


Killings for Christianity


Killings for Islam

The Qur'an tells us: "not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (5:51), "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises "If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them" (8:65).


The Bible is just as bad.


People just need a little common sense and we should be all right. All this blind faith in whats right and wrong needs a little more light shed on it.

---------------------------------------------------------------
George Santayana:
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

shuamort said:
Limit, not stop.

You are not going to get everyone to wear a condom either.
 

shuamort

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Re: Who's going first?

I wholeheartedly agree with your posts 9 + 10. Well said.
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

So what is the solution?


Highly motivated,trained, culturally diverse, well paid teachers in our schools may be a start.

Mandatory parenting classes?
 

Urethra Franklin

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Re: Who's going first?

Shame this has been moved to the basement seeing as it's a hot tiopic.

I agree 100% with Naughty Nurse.
The pope was an evil man heading an evil institiution. He perpetrated the inequality of women, and the hatred of gays, and has done more to spread poverty and HIV throughout the world than many other individuals.

His persistance to carry on to the end despite his obviously failing health was rather too martyr like; he even compared it to the way of the cross. How long before we have another plastic saint just like Mother Theresa?

His death has been turned into another media circus. To mourn somebody you don't actually know, whether it be princess Di, Elvis, the pope or the Queen mother, is really quite an unbvelieveably self indulgent thing to do - and smacks of insincerity.

One hopes for a successor who'll ordain women, accept gay marriage and preach that condoms save lives - but sadly that's unlikely.
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

Urethra Franklin said:
The pope was an evil man heading an evil institiution. He perpetrated the inequality of women, and the hatred of gays, and has done more to spread poverty and HIV throughout the world than many other individuals..
I guess it is easier to to blame a dead old man for the worlds ills than try to educate, assume moral responsibilities, or attempt to take economic control over our own lives. Whatever. Only the USA was a bigger scapegoat.

According to the Pope, the merciful love of God needs to be shown especially towards the orphaned children of parents who have died of AIDS. In response to the Pope's appeal, 12% of those providing care to HIV/AIDS patients worldwide are agencies of the Catholic Church, and 13% are Catholic non-governmental organizations. The Catholic Church is thus carrying out 25% of the total care given to HIV/AIDS victims, which makes the Church the major supporter of States in the fight against this disease.
--ARCHBISHOP JAVIER LOZANO BARRAGAN in a speech to the President

Oops forgot you dont like him either.

Far be it from me to inflame (aka inflamm as Vague spells it)the gays but what I find interesting is all the tossing of words like hatred, bigot, evil, etc.
I notice you guys/gals/gays are quick to toss those off in many of these threads.

It smacks of hypocrisy.

-------------------------------------------
I bet I am a nicer person person than you---NaughtyNurse

You're a bigot and a homophobe. And full of self-righteous BS-NaughtyNurse



More debate less name calling
 

Urethra Franklin

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Re: Who's going first?

akyron said:
I guess it is easier to to blame a dead old man for the worlds ills than try to educate, assume moral responsibilities, or attempt to take economic control over our own lives. Whatever. Only the USA was a bigger scapegoat.

According to the Pope, the merciful love of God needs to be shown especially towards the orphaned children of parents who have died of AIDS. In response to the Pope's appeal, 12% of those providing care to HIV/AIDS patients worldwide are agencies of the Catholic Church, and 13% are Catholic non-governmental organizations. The Catholic Church is thus carrying out 25% of the total care given to HIV/AIDS victims, which makes the Church the major supporter of States in the fight against this disease.
--ARCHBISHOP JAVIER LOZANO BARRAGAN in a speech to the President

Oops forgot you dont like him either.

Far be it from me to inflame (aka inflamm as Vague spells it)the gays but what I find interesting is all the tossing of words like hatred, bigot, evil, etc.
I notice you guys/gals/gays are quick to toss those off in many of these threads.

It smacks of hypocrisy.

-------------------------------------------
I bet I am a nicer person person than you---NaughtyNurse

You're a bigot and a homophobe. And full of self-righteous BS-NaughtyNurse



More debate less name calling
You forget to mention the strings attached to catholic "health care" i.e. towing the line.
HIV "care" which is lacking in sex education, not based on the foundation that partners can protect themselves with condoms etc. is the kind of care the church loves: it promotes the idea of victims of their own "sins". People become infected because they've strayed from the church's teachings, so we can point at their suffering as an example of what you're in for if you don't do as we say. We'll prove our "christian charity" by looking after them, but we'll point to their suffering as something that's "good" for the soul, and we won't actually have any respect for them or consider them as our equals, especially if they're gay, prostitutes, have had multuple partners etc. Of course if they were unfortunate enough to have received infected blood transfusions, we'll put them on a pedestal, becuause we love to distinguish between "innocent" victims and those others who asked for it. On a political level, we'd never dare encourage them to organize and campaign for change. No, keep them believeing in "miracles" and their "salvation in the next life" and they'll accept their lot in this life, keep flocking to our churches and shelling out what little money they have, to an organisation whose priests and nuns have a good life (despite often having taken a vow of poverty) and whatever money's left over can be offered as hush money by an institiution with an atrocious record of child abuse.

You quote Naughty Nurse out of context. The person he was referring to has shown time and again that he is a bigot and a homophobe.
 

Arch Enemy

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Re: Who's going first?

Urethra Franklin said:
His death has been turned into another media circus. To mourn somebody you don't actually know, whether it be princess Di, Elvis, the pope or the Queen mother, is really quite an unbvelieveably self indulgent thing to do - and smacks of insincerity.
I applaud you for this one! You're correct his death has been over done, It is my opinion that he was a great man but I don't think anybody deserves this kind of media attention. If the media really cared about Jean Paul's reputation then they would stop.. this media coverage will eventually slip and give people more bad impressions of him.

and the hatred of gays, and has done more to spread poverty
You have a nice reasoning for you to hate him, as I know you're a gay and it is against his religion to be gay. This would just be like a black getting pissed off because Walt Disney was a racist. The other things you've said about him (execpt the condom thing) I don't have any knowledge.. I did read a biography of pre-pope for him, it'd be nice if you could show some examples of this being legitimate.


One hopes for a successor who'll ordain women, accept gay marriage and preach that condoms save lives - but sadly that's unlikely.
I am no Homophobic I have gay friends but the hopes of a new Pope accepting gay marriage will be in vain, considering it is against his teachings. Yes it would be nice for the Papacy to come from their ultra-reality and finally ordain a women.. it is in women's nature to be more passive.. perfect for a Cardinal.
 

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Re: Who's going first?

Urethra Franklin said:
People become infected because they've strayed from the church's teachings, so we can point at their suffering as an example of what you're in for if you don't do as we say. We'll prove our "christian charity" by looking after them, but we'll point to their suffering as something that's "good" for the soul, and we won't actually have any respect for them or consider them as our equals, especially if they're gay, prostitutes, have had multuple partners etc.

Well Yeah.. Duhh In general if you had listened and kept it in your pants you would not be suffering of AIDS would you?


You quote Naughty Nurse out of context. The person he was referring to has shown time and again that he is a bigot and a homophobe.

Soo.. Its ok to toss out "homo" and "faggot" if it is shown that person is gay?
I disagree. I do not think it is ok to be name calling.


Disagree. Debate. Whatever. The hostility is unnecessary.

And another thing.
If people REALLY did what the pope advocated it would be abstinence.
People arent doing that so why would they listen about condoms?

What we need is Education+Cure

Condoms are certainly a part of that like (WHO) says but you cannot lay the worlds ills on one man/woman or one organization.

Even Britney Spears doesnt have that much power.
 

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Re: Who's going first?

Urethra Franklin said:
His death has been turned into another media circus. To mourn somebody you don't actually know, whether it be princess Di, Elvis, the pope or the Queen mother, is really quite an unbvelieveably self indulgent thing to do - and smacks of insincerity.
When Martin Luther King or JFK were killed, were you sad?

What about if your political idol were murdered tomorrow, would you mourn for him?

Insincerity in your eyes does not self-indulgence make.
 

Urethra Franklin

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Re: Who's going first?

RightatNYU said:
When Martin Luther King or JFK were killed, were you sad?.
No. I didn't know them. And I was rather young for both of them, having been born the year JFK was killed.

RightatNYU said:
What about if your political idol were murdered tomorrow, would you mourn for him?.
I don't have idols.
If a political figure I admired were murdered, I'd be outraged as I am at the murder of anybody, but i couldn't mourn somebody i didn't know, no.


RightatNYU said:
Insincerity in your eyes does not self-indulgence make.
Your word order is incorrect, or have we stumbled upon poet's corner?
 

Urethra Franklin

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Re: Who's going first?

Arch Enemy said:
as I know you're a gay .

?

I don't really like labels. I'm with a guy currently, and most of my relationships have been with men, though I've had a couple of experiences with other women. Does that make me bisexual? I prefer to say I'm a human being.

Like your post. So we do agree on some things.
 

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Re: Who's going first?

akyron said:
Soo.. Its ok to toss out "homo" and "faggot" if it is shown that person is gay? .


No as they are terms of abuse. You call them gay. If smoeone's a homophobe, you call them a homophobe. Doh.




akyron said:
you cannot lay the worlds ills on one man/woman or one organization.
Nobody's actually doing that; they're simply acknowledging the catholic churches contribution to spreading AIDS.
 

akyron

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Re: Who's going first?

Urethra Franklin said:
No as they are terms of abuse. You call them gay. If smoeone's a homophobe, you call them a homophobe. Doh.
QUOTE]

Sorry maybe I misread the tone of the comments. They appeared as an attempt to abuse him. As long as its a term of endearment its ok. Like calling your friends "FAG" when they do something to annoy you.
 

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you cannot lay the worlds ills on one man/woman or one organization.
It's gotten to the point where have started saying "The pope makes the decisions" or "He alone makes the decisions based on what he feels are suited for his teachings". That, however, is in correct, the Pope has his own office/ Jurisdiction called the Papacy who makes decisions ALONG with the pope. Vatican officials.. not ringing any bells? So Mr Franklin is laying the blame on the POPE himself.. but like many leaders, since he is the leader of the Papacy, he gets the blame though he isn't the only official of the Papacy.. I guess he should have used "Papacy" instead.
 

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Re: Who's going first?

akyron said:
Urethra Franklin said:
No as they are terms of abuse. You call them gay. If smoeone's a homophobe, you call them a homophobe. Doh.
QUOTE]

Sorry maybe I misread the tone of the comments. They appeared as an attempt to abuse him. As long as its a term of endearment its ok. Like calling your friends "FAG" when they do something to annoy you.

No, like calling someone "woman" or German" when that's what they are.
Fag is a term of abuse.
Are you deliberately acting stupid?
 

Urethra Franklin

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Arch Enemy said:
So Mr Franklin is laying the blame on the POPE himself.. .

Mr?

When the Pope stands in front of crowds of people who can't feed their 12 children and preaches that condoms are evil, he has to take some of the responsibility personally.

Thankfully, Prince Rainier's death has knocked him out of the news here.
 
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