Who will protect people with pre-existing conditions?

[Vadinho]

Wants and needs are different even among folks living next door to each other. Too often things are coupled into 'package deals' where pork A is allowed (accepted?) simply because some congress critter had to do so in order to get pork B.

True but does anyone truly believe that they can get everything they want in a nation of 330 million people? Trump and his rump Congress just tried it, look what just happened...

 

[ThoughtEx.]

You're not a US citizen? Your opinion means nothing about our country. Its fun knowing TDS is an epidemic that has spread outside the USA though.

I'm definitely a US citizen. Have been ever since I was born. Moving out of the country, doesn't make you lose citizenship. You would think I wouldn't have to tell a lawyer that...

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm definitely a US citizen. Have been ever since I was born. Moving out of the country, doesn't make you lose citizenship. You would think I wouldn't have to tell a lawyer that...

I don't recall you saying you were. my bad

 

[Vadinho]

The answer to that (bolded above) question should be obvious - those that must pay more in taxes than the "free" benefit is worth to them. With the exception of deficit spending and borrowing, every $1 of government spending came from $1 of taxation. There are certainly areas that are best handled as a public service (defense, police, fire, courts, most infrastructure and to some exent schools) but once public spending to supply "access to" 'private' goods/services are placed on the 'rights' list then we are in murky waters indeed.

What murky waters? Do you live on an island filled with John Galt wannabes? The entire history of Western Civilization has been a steady move towards having the state assume more of the burden to insure that all have a chance at a good life. This is not 1790, its 2018 and we have all collectively demanded or supported increased support from the government. If you want Dickens, read his books but stating that somehow our current structures should be cut to the bone to support some libertarian utopia is silly. If you can convince enough people to support your positions then you can take power and destroy the current system. Good luck telling seniors they no longer have SS or Medicare. Good luck telling millions of poor people they can no longer get food stamps or free lunches for their kids. Good luck telling farmers they cannot get subsidies any more, good luck telling Veterans they are on their own, good luck selling off the national parks. Libertarians are some of the strangest people, what they believe in will never exist yet they persist in their little fantasies.

 

[concernedpuma]

That's what we have right now. People with pre-existing conditions can buy the same plans as anybody else (and the products are priced consistently from customer-to-customer) and all sellers share in the risk via risk adjustment mechanisms behind the scenes.

Are you certain of that? You are saying there is no per-existing exclusion or price difference?
Regards,
CP

 

[distraff]

A bold claim this week!

Let's examine the balance of evidence.

[table="width: 900, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]

Democrats​

[/td]
[td]

Republicans​

[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]

• Passed Affordable Care Act, which protects people with pre-existing conditions

[/td]
[td]

• Uniformly voted against the Affordable Care Act, which protects people with pre-existing conditions
• Voted 70 times to repeal the Affordable Care Act, stripping people of pre-existing condition protections
• Currently in court arguing that pre-existing condition protections in the ACA should be thrown out
• Issuing regulations making it easier to sell plans that exclude people with pre-existing conditions

[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

This is a tough one. Who to trust?

The GOP healthcare bill actually included pre-existing protections but had those people pay more the first year of coverage. Some leading Republicans want it dropped completely, but I don't see a bill like that ever passing. We need a healthcare system that doesn't screw people over and thankfully pre-existing condition protection is one way that people are protected.

 

[concernedpuma]

If it does not provide the people with what they want and need what is the point of supporting such a government?

Isn't it a bit more complicated than that? What the average citizen Wants, is beyond any governmental budget. That is what keeps us working, yes? Now, as to what the average citizen needs, it is different. Health care for its citizens is a form of self defense, not much different than turning away any other enemy. What irony to survive war against the Dirty Reds, just to die of treatable-cancer 6 month's later.
It is also a curious tagging, to call Defense just that, but Universal Health care is a social program.
I am in favor of all contributing what they can for their own insurance, but am against denying health care to anyone.
Regards,
CP

 

[Greenbeard]

Are you certain of that? You are saying there is no per-existing exclusion or price difference?
Regards,
CP

42 U.S. Code § 300gg - Fair health insurance premiums

(a) Prohibiting discriminatory premium rates

(1) In general With respect to the premium rate charged by a health insurance issuer for health insurance coverage offered in the individual or small group market—

(A) such rate shall vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved only by—

(i) whether such plan or coverage covers an individual or family;
(ii) rating area, as established in accordance with paragraph (2);
(iii) age, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 3 to 1 for adults (consistent with section 300gg–6(c) of this title); and
(iv) tobacco use, except that such rate shall not vary by more than 1.5 to 1; and​

(B) such rate shall not vary with respect to the particular plan or coverage involved by any other factor not described in subparagraph (A).​

42 U.S. Code § 300gg–1 - Guaranteed availability of coverage

(a) Guaranteed issuance of coverage in the individual and group market
Subject to subsections (b) through (e), each health insurance issuer that offers health insurance coverage in the individual or group market in a State must accept every employer and individual in the State that applies for such coverage.

 

[concernedpuma]

42 U.S. Code § 300gg - Fair health insurance premiums


42 U.S. Code § 300gg–1 - Guaranteed availability of coverage

I'm afraid I don't have rights to view much on those two sites. I did see there was a mention of preexisting conditions on one part, but it wouldn't allow me to go further. Therefor, I can't dispute you. I'm afraid there is an alternate lifestyle where group insurance isn't available, and in those instances, the simple declination by a carrier is refusing to cover a pre-existing condition. Am I wrong about that?
Regards,
CP

 

[Greenbeard]

I'm afraid I don't have rights to view much on those two sites.

It's free, I don't know what you mean.

I did see there was a mention of preexisting conditions on one part, but it wouldn't allow me to go further. Therefor, I can't dispute you. I'm afraid there is an alternate lifestyle where group insurance isn't available, and in those instances, the simple declination by a carrier is refusing to cover a pre-existing condition. Am I wrong about that?
Regards,
CP

Yes, you're wrong about that. This is what the Affordable Care Act does. The individual market gets the same protections as the group markets: they can't turn you away; premiums can only vary based on family size, age, location, and tobacco use (i.e., not on medical history or pre-existing conditions); and, while I didn't excerpt that section of the U.S. Code above, they have to offer everyone the same baseline package of essential health benefits. No carveouts for pre-existing conditions.

 

[concernedpuma]

It's free, I don't know what you mean.



Yes, you're wrong about that. This is what the Affordable Care Act does. The individual market gets the same protections as the group markets: they can't turn you away; premiums can only vary based on family size, age, location, and tobacco use (i.e., not on medical history or pre-existing conditions); and, while I didn't excerpt that section of the U.S. Code above, they have to offer everyone the same baseline package of essential health benefits. No carveouts for pre-existing conditions.

I got a support pop-up that blocked me.
Nevertheless, I think I wrote I couldn't dispute you and still can't. I admit this, I was unaware of the provision in the AFCA. .
Please be aware, I am for universal care for American's. I just fear there are too many holes. If everything is okay as it is, wherefore the ongoing conversation?
Regards,
CP

 

[marke]

What murky waters? Do you live on an island filled with John Galt wannabes? The entire history of Western Civilization has been a steady move towards having the state assume more of the burden to insure that all have a chance at a good life. This is not 1790, its 2018 and we have all collectively demanded or supported increased support from the government. If you want Dickens, read his books but stating that somehow our current structures should be cut to the bone to support some libertarian utopia is silly. If you can convince enough people to support your positions then you can take power and destroy the current system. Good luck telling seniors they no longer have SS or Medicare. Good luck telling millions of poor people they can no longer get food stamps or free lunches for their kids. Good luck telling farmers they cannot get subsidies any more, good luck telling Veterans they are on their own, good luck selling off the national parks. Libertarians are some of the strangest people, what they believe in will never exist yet they persist in their little fantasies.

The whole world is gravitating towards a one world control of all people. The Bible predicts that will be achieved by the anti-Christ in the end days. That will be a socialist system and will be brutal, but that is because socialists must rob every citizen in order to get enough money to give some of it back in seriously abbreviated 'benefits.'

 

[concernedpuma]

The whole world is gravitating towards a one world control of all people. The Bible predicts that will be achieved by the anti-Christ in the end days. That will be a socialist system and will be brutal, but that is because socialists must rob every citizen in order to get enough money to give some of it back in seriously abbreviated 'benefits.'

I don't think M has made the leap to Libertarian(not meant to insult Libertarians) Like him, I don't think a good product like the United States is improved by mixing it with bad product. In that case, you end up with a larger spoiled product. Historically good ideas, processes, and results have spread from the initiation, not mixing with those that failed. We have the best country in the world, let's bring them up, not descend to their pitiful level.
Regards,
CP

 

[Vadinho]

The whole world is gravitating towards a one world control of all people. The Bible predicts that will be achieved by the anti-Christ in the end days. That will be a socialist system and will be brutal, but that is because socialists must rob every citizen in order to get enough money to give some of it back in seriously abbreviated 'benefits.'

What gibberish, this is pure nut job stuff. Read a book.

 

[Vadinho]

Isn't it a bit more complicated than that? What the average citizen Wants, is beyond any governmental budget. That is what keeps us working, yes? Now, as to what the average citizen needs, it is different. Health care for its citizens is a form of self defense, not much different than turning away any other enemy. What irony to survive war against the Dirty Reds, just to die of treatable-cancer 6 month's later.
It is also a curious tagging, to call Defense just that, but Universal Health care is a social program.
I am in favor of all contributing what they can for their own insurance, but am against denying health care to anyone.
Regards,
CP

Not sure if we disagree on anything here. We end up having the government we want and demand or we do away with it. Human history never lies, when the government no longer serves the people, the people abandon it.

 

[HumblePi]

Insurance companies.

Insurance companies are the last ones that will protect anyone's right to have healthcare especially with a pre-existing condition. People with illnesses such as diabetes, multiple sclerosis, cancer, seizure disorder, etc. are only a threat to the bottom-line of any insurance company. It's always about corporate profit not people.

 

[Risky Thicket]

The whole world is gravitating towards a one world control of all people. The Bible predicts that will be achieved by the anti-Christ in the end days. That will be a socialist system and will be brutal, but that is because socialists must rob every citizen in order to get enough money to give some of it back in seriously abbreviated 'benefits.'

Jesus was a socialist.

 

[marke]

Jesus was a socialist.

In the Hollywood version?

 

[Fledermaus]

Insurance companies are the last ones that will protect anyone's right to have healthcare especially with a pre-existing condition. People with illnesses such as diabetes, multiple sclerosis, cancer, seizure disorder, etc. are only a threat to the bottom-line of any insurance company. It's always about corporate profit not people.

Which politician covered your last treatment?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Insurance company profit is predicated on denying coverage.

Wendell Potter, former CIGNA exec.

One of the secrets to achieving these results is what the insurers euphemistically call “medical management.” That often translates into denied claims and denied coverage for doctor-ordered care. The fewer claims you pay and the more procedures you refuse to pay for, the more money is left over for investors to put in their pockets.

 

[concernedpuma]

What gibberish, this is pure nut job stuff. Read a book.

That is quite disrespectful. I think Marke has read a book, and h

 

[concernedpuma]

What gibberish, this is pure nut job stuff. Read a book.

I think maybe you don't appreciate how insulting that is to Marke. I believe he/she has read a Book, and his/her thinking is formed from that reading. Not until our own individual end of days, will we know if it is right or not. I understand the brotherhood message from the New Testament, and that could be called socialist, in a specific way. But, I believe the message from the New Testament is personal, and not intended to favor any Governmental system over another.
Regards,
CP

 

[concernedpuma]

Jesus was a socialist.

He was? What makes you believe Jesus wanted you and I to care for those won't care for themselves. Note the difference: Those who won't and those who can't. Chapter and Verse, please.
Regards,
CP

 

[uptower]

He was? What makes you believe Jesus wanted you and I to care for those won't care for themselves. Note the difference: Those who won't and those who can't. Chapter and Verse, please.
Regards,
CP

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-helping-others/

Plenty in there about helping the needy. None of these versus discuss modern American interpretations of whether the need 'deserve' to be poor, or the difference between whether they 'can't' or won't' help themselves.

 

[upsideguy]

The whole world is gravitating towards a one world control of all people. The Bible predicts that will be achieved by the anti-Christ in the end days. That will be a socialist system and will be brutal, but that is because socialists must rob every citizen in order to get enough money to give some of it back in seriously abbreviated 'benefits.'

Ok, now I need a biblical cite for your non-sense. Where in the Bible does it warn of a "socialist system" that is brutal as a sign of the end times. Are you perverting Rev 13 to fit this narrative of yours?

Stop posting stuff you can not defend!

Of course, if you actually believed that AND were a strong Christian, you would welcoming that which you suggest we fear.... you would be all for one-world socialism.