greengirl77
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2013
- Messages
- 362
- Reaction score
- 95
- Location
- Arlington, tx
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Very Liberal
Better question is what happens when it works for the states that actually care about their people?? What will the Republicans do then. My guess it will be the final nail in the coffin.
Right, so. Obamacare is now bending the cost-curve up, millions are going to lose their health insurance, the IRS is saying that the cheapest plan under Obamacares' exchanges will cost $20,000 for a family of five by 2016 and increase out of pocket costs even AFTER the subsidies, the hundreds of billions in cuts to Medicare to fund the program will cause many doctors to stop taking Medicare patients, and if we don't make those cuts to providers, then the costs of Obamacare, which are already rising, to explode. 26 States are refusing to work with HHS, and Obamacare's implementation, already well behind track threatens to fall further and further behind even as it is announced that they will not, actually, technically, so-to-speak, be able to help the people the bill was purported to aid.
So. As this disaster of a behemoth of a bill continues to flail and fail, who are the Democrats going to blame? How far down the rabbit hole are they willing to go, ears plugged, eyes closed?
It was a lung transplant, not a liver. Isn't the bureaucracy wonderful? The Sebelius Death Panel at Work.
In the end, due to a public outcry... and a judge... thanks to the ice cold testimony of Sebelius... she got her life saving transplant.
Sebelius... the cold iron fist of government healthkare.
[video]http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/04/sebelius-i-cant-suspend-the-lung-transplant-rules-for-a-dying-10-year-old/[/video]
A girl that was dying needed a transplant to live, and requirements had to be lifted so that she was eligible.
If you want to call that a death panel, I think you have it backwards. The public outcry over this individual case compelled some judges and bureaucrats to change the rules for her, even when they wanted to stay out of the way. So they made a decision that saved her life by giving her the lung. Therefore, someone else who was waiting on a lung who was eligible under the rules lost their chance at receiving the lung. It's just that there are no human interest stories in the news about that person for whatever reason.
If you're looking for a death panel, there it is. The people you thank for inserting themselves into the system saved a girl's life at the cost of someone else's.
You're saying that it's unfair that she wasn't going to get the lung. So you are invoking emotion and sympathy for her in order to favor her over someone else. Aren't you part of a death panel, saying she should live, not another person?
There is a list of over 100,000 people waiting for an organ transplant. They're not waiting because of some bureaucratic paperwork or red tape, they are waiting because there is a shortage of actual viable organs to give them. Because of how precious those few organs are, medical and health care professionals have instituted procedures and guidelines on how to make the most effective use of them and how to handle the mass of people that need them, prioritizing them in a way that no matter what will never be able to save everyone.
So if I understand it right, Sebelius didn't want to disturb that delicate system, but enough people started screaming "death panel" that they actually forced her into one.
I've been told at a transplant center that more than likely a heart transplant is in my future
I think the key elements of Obamacare will survive:
- Universal health coverage to all Americans
- Previously existing conditions not a basis for exclusion
- No lifetime limits
Remember, it's not universal yet. You can opt out. Of course you'll be opting in as soon as you need it.
Are you serious? What's your situation?
And less important to your health, what's your take on this issue?
All the best.
Yes I am serious I have a very rare (1 out of 100k) congenital heart defect.
So far I've been very lucky. I was told a 1/3 stay the same a 1/3 get worse and a 1/3 show improvement. I'm at the top of that last 1/3.
My take is "wow wgat a strange trip"
Good to hear. Have you had to investigate the organ transplant system before? If so, does it seem well run or flawed?
Better question is what happens when it works for the states that actually care about their people?? What will the Republicans do then. My guess it will be the final nail in the coffin.
It's NOT MY POLL. Whoops!
CPWILL started the poll... so I was wondering what the hell you were talking about... hence the retracing your comment to my post which was not past tense.
OC can wipe the egg of your face... I'll be generous... crap like that can happen.
ROTFLOL... yeah right. You don't post up here because I'd boot your can all over DP... "inaccuracies and fallacies"... (ahem... like the huge dump of yours in this post... above?) if it's so easy, why not come out and destroy me... LOL...?
In the words of our scummy little Secretary of State... Bring It On.
I tend to not interact with you much upstairs, zim. Your posts tend to be dumb partisan hack comments filled with inaccuracies and fallacies which really don't interest me much. I learned this the first time I interacted with you back in 2008 when you couldn't correctly define the word "socialist".
My comment was a response to your poll question. Your poll question was flawed as it uses a begging the question logical fallacy and assumes that Obamacare WILL fail... a future tense comment. One cannot state that something HAS failed until it actually DOES fail... and for something to fail it has to actually apply. Obamacare will not apply until 2014. My comment demonstrated your fallacy (something that most of your posts contain) and showed that in order for your statement to make any sense, it must be PAST tense, which it is not.
There. Now that I have diagrammed this situation for you, demonstrated that your entire thread is based on a stupid logical fallacy, showed that you don't understand verb tenses, please feel free to comment with your partisan screaming of "Nuh, Uh".
Ah... wrong... but nice try.I see. I made a comment about cpwill's poll back in February and you commented on what I said in September. Didn't remember who made the poll. However, since you commented in the way that you did, you presented that you agree with the poll. Therefore, by proxy, my comment remains on target.
See, zim... when you stick your nose into these situations, you tend to get it blown off.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.Your posts bore me zim.
If it is so easy... why not take a second and kill the arguments? You can't... so you avoid. But you seem to love the underground. Why so shy here? I smell fear.Dumb partisan hack statements that have no basis in reality, misrepresent issues, and demonstrate a purposefully complete lack of understanding of basic definitions.
More blarney. Ahem... who's correcting who here?Correcting you would be a full time job. I prefer to just allow your posts to stand for themselves and let people evaluate them on their lack of merit. The non-hacks around here recognize them for what they are: inconsequential. In general, zim, you do my work for me.
Now that we have straightened out you wrongly attributed the OP and Poll to me... let's straighten out Paragraph 1 of your post once and forever.
1. You folks didn't like my definition of Socialist. Why? Perhaps it is because you don't like being associated with a knowingly failed ideology.
2. You folks claim that because the state does not control the means of production, it's not socialist. That's cute. It's also intellectually bankrupt.
A party that foments and pushes Socialist legislation, and a party of supporters that propagandize for it... are pushing "Socialism", and are acting like "Socialists". And that IS the behavior of most Demokrats... aka Socialists of Amerika Partei (SAPs). For the mass of Demokrats, there doesn't seem to be a Socialist program or legislation they disapprove of.
3. Because you don't accept my definition:
So... now that we've cleared that up, and you've been educated... I invite you up here for some more. Don't be shy
Ah... wrong... but nice try.
You attribute the poll to me... which wasn't mine and attempted to make an argument from it. Now you're scurrying around trying to cover your ass for blowing that big time.
You would have done better to have accepted my gracious offer, but no... you keep digging deeper. This has all the marks of Obama all over it. Fark up... and then try a new tactic as cover... one that blows up in your face.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
If it is so easy... why not take a second and kill the arguments? You can't... so you avoid. But you seem to love the underground. Why so shy here? I smell fear.
More blarney. Ahem... who's correcting who here?
You've proven you are intellectually bankrupt, and The "Socialism" bit proved it. You failed to face the most obvious bit of reality.
CC... You're an easy mark, as most Leftists are, and would be picking up your debating teeth all over DP... hence your absence.
You've engaged me once here in a long while and what happened?
1. You attributed the OP to the wrong person... and based your argument on it.
2. Your claim that you don't debate me because back in 2008 I couldn't define "Socialism"... PURE BS.
3. I define "socialism" and "socialist" for you... yet again... and you obviously don't like the definition, proving once again you're intellectually bankrupt.
4. You try to twist out of the misappropriated post with further BS.
ROTFLOL... of course... you'll claim victory. It's the Leftists Way. Fail miserably and claim victory.
Here is your screw up.You do not seem to understand verb tenses. In the context that I used the term "fail" means past tense. Since Obamacare has not been fully enacted as of yet, this would be the incorrect tense to use.Zimmer: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/152107-democrats-blame-failure-obamacare-32.html#post1062297471
It is failing as we speak. It's designed to fail.
He's been acting like a Queen... handing out waivers to the faithful like they're party favors.
This is Obama's Benghazi to the medical community and nation. Another pure fark up by our Enfant Terrible in de White Ouse and Les Ensemble of Court Jesters in the Ouse and Senate that passed it using tricks.
Seems like ever since you got to DP, zim, I'm correcting you on how you use words.
You claimed I couldn't define socialism. Wrong. I couldn't define socialism to appease your intellectually bankrupt definition of it.I tend to not interact with you much upstairs, zim. Your posts tend to be dumb partisan hack comments filled with inaccuracies and fallacies which really don't interest me much. I learned this the first time I interacted with you back in 2008 when you couldn't correctly define the word "socialist".
Show me one that is a success.
You claimed I couldn't define socialism
A girl that was dying needed a transplant to live, and requirements had to be lifted so that she was eligible.
Ahhh. the Twins are in action.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/19/u...s-hospital-in-mississippi.html?pagewanted=all
A Pattern of Problems at a Hospital for Veterans
By JAMES DAO
Published: March 18, 2013
WASHINGTON — In an unusually strong letter sent to the White House on Monday, the office that handles complaints from federal whistle-blowers says it has found a pattern of problems at a Department of Veterans Affairs medical center in Jackson, Miss., that raises serious questions about the hospital’s management practices.
The problems over the last six years include poor sterilization procedures, chronic understaffing of the primary care unit and missed diagnoses by the radiology department...
Ahhh. the Twins are in action.
The VA is a great socialist system? Tell that to the vets. It's known for its problems.
And you do share the gene. I left quotes earlier in the thread from "Dummies" and "Google". Bone up. You and CC have wasted 5-years.
You needed a public outcry to get action, and the Secretary herself wasn't going to lift a finger. Obamakare leaves these decisions to The Secretary. There's a quote about it earlier on.Quote Originally Posted by aberrant85 View Post
A girl that was dying needed a transplant to live, and requirements had to be lifted so that she was eligible.
I'd love to see Zimmer's response to this, but I doubt we're going to get anything other than vague comments and insults.
What is good about the transplant system is that the death panel is out in the open. We can see it and apparently we can actually change it as citizens and voters.
Compare this to how corporate insurance death panels are run. It is extremely hypocritical for people who are against government death panels to have nary a peep about the back room death panels going on in private insurance that virtually no one knows about until it's too late.
This suggests to me that the "death panel" crowd either doesn't actually care about death panels and are thus using it purely for political posturing, or they are ignorant about what is happening in private. Neither bode well for honest discussions with them.
The VA doesn't service military? Veterans are not part of the military family? People entering the military are not promised as part of their service to their country healthcare?Did I say the VA or did I say the military?
So... for a successful socialist system, your example is the military? My... what we have to look forward to... ROTFLOL... but hey... we're on our way. Soon we'll be set out for harvest in the potato fields like in the good 'ol USSR.For someone who claims I misrepresent everything (but can never prove it) you sure do it a lot yourself.
ROTFLOL... do you know how many people will laugh their asses off reading that? Coming from you!FYI, I'm book marking this as evidence that you deliberately misrepresenting what I said and you've put words in my mouth I never said. You know, so I can actually prove it when I say it. Rather than just say it and then run away from proving it.
va.gov... and the VA is not known for its stellar performance. It should be. The vets should get the best of the best. But they don't.
Infractions... insmakshuns... hit the report button.You must enjoy getting infractions.
Try use actual definitions. And definitions that define the word with the word are pointless.
ROTFLOL... like I said...the intellectually bankrupt don't like the definitions.
Intellectual bankruptcy seems to be one of your strong suits.Point still stands.You still can't define Socialism
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