Who Wants To Commit Genocide?

[Sweden]

Palestinians don't support Hamas...Hamas took over the Gaza strip in 2007 using violence and used violence after the ceasefire to assert continued control.

Still waiting for someone to explain who those 'Palestinians' are. Would you care to have a try?.

 

[Ethel2]

1869

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Antarctica is on the world map too. Is Antarctica a country?
There were “Palestinian territories”. But never a country called Palestine.
I provided the definition of “country” some time ago here. It includes the requirement that to be a country a group of people must have a government. The Palestinian Territories had no government.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Still waiting for someone to explain who those 'Palestinians' are. Would you care to have a try?.

Is your google broken?

Palestinians (Arabic: الفلسطينيون, romanized: al-Filasṭīniyyūn) are an Arab ethnonational group native to the Levantine region of Palestine.They represent a highly homogeneous community who share a cultural and ethnic identity, and peak Palestinian Arabic and share close religious, linguistic, and cultural ties with other Levantine Arabs.

In 1919, Palestinian Muslims and Christians constituted 90 percent of the population of Palestine, just before the third wave of Jewish immigration and the setting up of British Mandatory Palestine after World War I

Palestinians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tigerace117]

Palestinians don't support Hamas...Hamas took over the Gaza strip in 2007 using violence and used violence after the ceasefire to assert continued control.

Palestinians sure as shit don’t support Israel mass murdering them and stealing their land.

And the “Popular Forces” Israel is so desperately trying to prop up are just a bad joke. A few hundred thugs who spend most of their time looting aid convoys, led by ISIS fighters.

 

[jaypatriot]

I was just curious here on October 7th what everyone felt here. Several have posted they think Israel is committing genocide. Of course history shows that Jews have been the victims of genocide for decades. I linked Hamas and the Palestinians together since the Palestinians had supported Hamas and the Palestinians also largely deny Israel's right to exist. I would also personally argue that Israel is not committing genocide because they are not really trying to get rid of the Palestinians from existence. Israel either wants to live in peace or they want the Palestinians gone somewhere else, but not really eliminated from the face of the Earth, which is what most Palestinians want to happen to Israel. So, which way is it?

NO. Israel is not interested in genocide of Palestinians.
If it was, do you think it would agree to a ceasefire with Hamas?
It has the capacity to eliminate all Palestinians from Gaza.
Why hasn't it done so?

Hamas and Palestinians have it in their charters to destroy Israel.
There is written proof to support Hamas' war against Israel and the Palestinian's Charter to work toward the destruction of Israel as a sovereign?
AND THEY WANT THE U.N. TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINE AS A FOREIGN STATE?!!!
Neither Hamas nor the PA have ever renounced its goal to destroy Israel.
Why in the world would Israel and America agree to a two-state solution.?

Did the PA Ever Revise Its Charter Calling for the Destruction of Israel?​

Dec 3, 2023, 9:39 PM


In sum, only 63% of the total PNC members (504 out of 800) voted to nullify the offending articles, falling just short of the two-thirds majority needed to comply with Article 33 in order to have any legal effect. In any case, this was a vote to agree to amend the Charter. It did not itself result in a formally amended Charter.

The Blogs: Did the PA Ever Revise Its Charter Calling for the Destruction of Israel?

From the blog of James Cooper at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

While the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Fatah pretend to the world that they would be content with a Palestinian state within the June 4, 1967, borders — living in peace, side by side with Israel — they have a different message when addressing the Arab/Palestinian public.


In talking to their own people, their goal echoes former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat’s “stages plan,” which meant that Palestinians would conquer Israel bit by bit.


Still today, PA/Fatah leaders believe the way to destroy Israel is to agree to a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders as a first step, leaving Israel with indefensible borders. Then they plan to demand/conquer more Israeli land over time, until all of Israel has become “Palestine.”

 

[cpwill]

Israel is continuing military operations and cutting agreed upon aid into Gaza. After closing down the GHF, the figleaf mercenary organization they controlled.

....Emotive and poor framing aside, it's worth noting the context and exception to that decision: Israel tells UN it will only allow half of agreed number of aid trucks into Gaza after Hamas ceasefire violation

Israel has told the United Nations it will only allow 300 aid trucks — half the agreed number — into the Gaza Strip from tomorrow and that no fuel or gas will be allowed into the enclave except for specific needs related to humanitarian infrastructure, according to a note seen by Reuters and confirmed by the UN....

The COGAT note says the restrictions were being taken because “Hamas violated the agreement regarding the release of the bodies of the hostages.”​

If HAMAS wants to continue to benefit from a ceasefire, then they need to not violate the terms of said ceasefire.

However, this is not at all an answer to the point that the very people you are accusing of wanting to commit Genocide are currently in the process of proving at a national level that you are wrong.

Genocide refers to the acts typically though not always by a state intended to kill a distinct people, in whole or in part.

Genocide is acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

So, for example, if you go on a rape/murder spree killing ~1200 people because you wish to eliminate an entire religious community (say, the Jews), that is genocidal in it's vision and aim, if not in it's complete achievement.

If, however, you go to effort to minimize civilian casualties in a war because you want to not eliminate an entire national community (say Palestinians), then that is not genocidal in vision or intent.

Cutting off food and medical supplies to civilians and purposefully targeting infrastructure including nearly every hospital in Gaza is what makes Israel genocidal.

It does not. A military can restrict the flow of humanitarian supplies if the enemy is diverting them for its own purposes (which HAMAS was), and the Laws of Armed Conflict (correctly) hold HAMAS responsible for resulting damage to civilian infrastructure when it chooses to use them for military purposes, because HAMAS then forces Israel to engage them.

However, on that topic:

Gunning down starving people lining up for food aid makes Israel genocidal.

This did not happen, as was shown you at the time of the original claim, though you were shown videos of HAMAS shooting people, which you ignored. Now HAMAS is in the act of hunting down anyone who sought aid outside it's control (which they say makes one a "collaborator"), and - as I recall - your reaction was not exactly sympathetic to Palestinians who were actually being targeted for doing things like seeking aid or wishing to be free of HAMAS' yoke.


However, it's worth discussing because you accused GHF of being a figleaf mercenary group working on behalf of Israel.... as they handed out.... millions of meals to help Palestinians find aid outside of HAMAS control.

This is also contradictory to claims of Genocidal intent. Notwithstanding complaints about the form of its delivery, Israel has provided more aid to a belligerent population during a war than any other country in history. When one is trying to maximize as many civilian deaths as possible in as little time as possible, one doesn't instead go to great lengths to then reduce civilian suffering, loss, and death.

 

[cpwill]

Bombing entire neighborhoods killing and wounding hundreds on the pretext that there was a terrorist somewhere in their midst without evidence makes Israel genocidal.

You have no insight into Israeli targeting and are making up conditions, just as you are ignoring that Israel went to great lengths to remove civilians from areas and buildings before they were struck.

Refusing to allow foreign journalists and humanitarian aid organizations into Gaza ... makes Israel genocidal

That is flatly incorrect. Restricting the Press isn't an act of Genocide.

All while Israeli government leaders up to and including their Prime Minister calling the Palestinians of Gaza "Amalek," the tribe of people the Israelites exterminated down to the last child in the Bible evidences their genocidal intent.

It does not, nor is that an accurate description. The Amalekites were (famously) not wiped out, and instead remained a sustained - and occasionally existential - threat to Israel. "Remember what Amalek did to you" is also on Holocaust memorials, because it is a reference to be vigilant against enemies who attack the vulnerable.




And nothing in this list at all addresses the basic fact that the past two weeks have proven the claim that Israel is seeking to commit genocide is incorrect. People who want to commit genocide seek to keep committing Genocide. They don't celebrate the end of the conflict, as we watched Israel just do.

Instead, the events of the past two weeks have demonstrated that Israel desperately wanted their hostages back, and to end the war. That description of their motives and their intent was wrong.

 

[Dans La Lune]

We can only speculate about Hamas, whereas we know for a fact with Israel. So...

And for the 99999999th time, Hamas doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's a product of the occupation and of being propped up by Israel to divide Palestinian resistance. It's Netanyahu's way of saying, 'We don't have a someone we can negotiate with.' That's the plan, that's not a conspiracy or speculation. Then October 7th happened Israel got a bloody nose. Welcome to blowback. Shoulda been minding your Open Air Prison / Concentration Camp, not pulling the IDF back to terrorize and brutalize Palestinians in the West Bank.

It's a real tragedy, caused by the seeds that the far-right Israel government had been sowing for years and decades. Everyone has agency -- except Palestinians.

Look, it's over. The genie is not going back in the bottle. We know what Israel is. As for Hamas? Just your standard militant resistance group. Squash it and another will rise up, as long as Palestinians are denied freedom. Hamas is capable inflicting mass death and destruction, but they're not an existential threat to anyone. Most of their weapons are made in Gaza.

 

[Bonnot]

Israel, and it shouldn't even be close since they have the means to do so and are doing so.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Hamas is now largely made up of victims of Israel's post-Oct 7th bombardment of Gaza. Basically people who've lost their families, friends and community. Are some of them genocidal antisemites? Maybe. If someone wipes out your entire family, and all you've ever experienced in life is misery and occupation, you start to get a little hate-on towards the group doing so and claiming to represent all Jews.

People say this situation is complicated. It's not. Americans can't even wear COVID masks without threatening Civil War.

 

[Ethel2]

You have no insight into Israeli targeting and are making up conditions, just as you are ignoring that Israel went to great lengths to remove civilians from areas and buildings before they were struck.




That is flatly incorrect. Restricting the Press isn't an act of Genocide.




It does not, nor is that an accurate description. The Amalekites were (famously) not wiped out, and instead remained a sustained - and occasionally existential - threat to Israel. "Remember what Amalek did to you" is also on Holocaust memorials, because it is a reference to be vigilant against enemies who attack the vulnerable.




And nothing in this list at all addresses the basic fact that the past two weeks have proven the claim that Israel is seeking to commit genocide is incorrect. People who want to commit genocide seek to keep committing Genocide. They don't celebrate the end of the conflict, as we watched Israel just do.

Instead, the events of the past two weeks have demonstrated that Israel desperately wanted their hostages back, and to end the war. That description of their motives and their intent was wrong.

If Israel is trying to commit genocide they are doing a really bad job of it. They have the capacity to pretty much wipe out the Palestinians but instead they take as much care as possible not to target civilians, unlike the pigs they are trying to exterminate.
The pigs are never going to disarm. They must all be killed, down to the last “martyr”.

 

[venice_ca]

....Emotive and poor framing aside, it's worth noting the context and exception to that decision: Israel tells UN it will only allow half of agreed number of aid trucks into Gaza after Hamas ceasefire violation

Israel has told the United Nations it will only allow 300 aid trucks — half the agreed number — into the Gaza Strip from tomorrow and that no fuel or gas will be allowed into the enclave except for specific needs related to humanitarian infrastructure, according to a note seen by Reuters and confirmed by the UN....​

​

The COGAT note says the restrictions were being taken because “Hamas violated the agreement regarding the release of the bodies of the hostages.”​

If HAMAS wants to continue to benefit from a ceasefire, then they need to not violate the terms of said ceasefire.

Long before the current ceasefire, there were numerous reports from UNHCR and a number of NGOs that Netanyahu was allowing insufficient food aid to enter Gaza. There have been deaths of children due to starvation. And Israel has been warned that they are responsible for meeting the humanitarian needs of the civilian population in Gaza.

In November 2024 the ICC issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant for violations of international law regarding withholding of humanitarian aid to Gaza, among other war crimes.

• Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(b)(xxv) of the Statute;
• Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health contrary to article 8(2)(a)(iii), or cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
• [ . . . ]
• Extermination and/or murder contrary to articles 7(1)(b) and 7(1)(a), including in the context of deaths caused by starvation, as a crime against humanity.

Before the cries begin that the ICC is anti-Semitic, please see the following link that enumerates the charges against Hamas leadership — numerous items — in the ICC request for their arrest warrants.

Statement of ICC Prosecutor Karim A.A. Khan KC: Applications for arrest warrants in the situation in the State of Palestine

Today I am filing applications for warrants of arrest before Pre-Trial Chamber I of the International Criminal Court in the Situation in the State of Palestine. Image ICC Prosecutor Khan on application for arrest warrants in the situation in the State of Palestine Watch Download Yahya Sinwar...

www.icc-cpi.int

I don’t think that there’s a valid argument that can be made against the charge that Netanyahu is engaging in ethic cleansing in Gaza.

 

[cpwill]

Long before the current ceasefire, there were numerous reports from UNHCR and a number of NGOs that Netanyahu was allowing insufficient food aid to enter Gaza.

Indeed. This was part of the (dishonest, imo) pushback against Israel putting down firmer rules in place about keeping aid out of the hands of HAMAS, and requiring that aid distribution not simply go straight to HAMAS, but occur in secured areas.

UNRWA and others had the aid, and it was approved and ready to go in. But they didn't want to look like they were obeying Israeli instructions (or harm their relationship with HAMAS), and so they refused.

At that point, they then began a pressure and (for the NGOs) fund-raising campaign by claiming that Gaza was entering into Famine to get Israel to change the rules back. This famine later turned out to have been fake, but it did succeed in getting Israel to let them re-start their support to HAMAS via aid distribution.

There have been deaths of children due to starvation.

There have been deaths of children linked to malnutrition, as there are here in the United States. As in the United States, these deaths by malnutrition appear to be driven by pre-extant medical conditions, and not by a lack of food, and the stories (with pictures) of skeletal-looking starving children later turned out to be misinformation.

When measured, even HAMAS' claims about how many children have died from malnutrition are multiple orders of magnitude lower than the kind of "mass starvation" that has been claimed.

And Israel has been warned that they are responsible for meeting the humanitarian needs of the civilian population in Gaza.

Which is incorrect. HAMAS is responsible for that, as they are the local government. Israel is responsible for following the Laws of Armed Conflict, and enabling delivery of aid in the areas it controls.

We weren't responsible for making sure that German's were well fed while we were invading Normandy, nor were we responsible for making sure that the Taliban had enough to eat during our overthrow of their government.

In November 2024 the ICC issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant for violations of international law regarding withholding of humanitarian aid to Gaza, among other war crimes.

Sure. Also China says it owns Taiwan and that nothing happened in Tiananmen Square in June of 1989.

I don’t think that there’s a valid argument that can be made against the charge that Netanyahu is engaging in ethic cleansing in Gaza.

I think I would put forward the point that, on the ground, in reality, it's not occurring, as a relevant point and argument against that conclusion.

 

[venice_ca]

Indeed. This was part of the (dishonest, imo) pushback against Israel putting down firmer rules in place about keeping aid out of the hands of HAMAS, and requiring that aid distribution not simply go straight to HAMAS, but occur in secured areas.

UNRWA and others had the aid, and it was approved and ready to go in. But they didn't want to look like they were obeying Israeli instructions (or harm their relationship with HAMAS), and so they refused.

At that point, they then began a pressure and (for the NGOs) fund-raising campaign by claiming that Gaza was entering into Famine to get Israel to change the rules back. This famine later turned out to have been fake, but it did succeed in getting Israel to let them re-start their support to HAMAS via aid distribution.



There have been deaths of children linked to malnutrition, as there are here in the United States. As in the United States, these deaths by malnutrition appear to be driven by pre-extant medical conditions, and not by a lack of food, and the stories (with pictures) of skeletal-looking starving children later turned out to be misinformation.

When measured, even HAMAS' claims about how many children have died from malnutrition are multiple orders of magnitude lower than the kind of "mass starvation" that has been claimed.



Which is incorrect. HAMAS is responsible for that, as they are the local government. Israel is responsible for following the Laws of Armed Conflict, and enabling delivery of aid in the areas it controls.

We weren't responsible for making sure that German's were well fed while we were invading Normandy, nor were we responsible for making sure that the Taliban had enough to eat during our overthrow of their government.




Sure. Also China says it owns Taiwan and that nothing happened in Tiananmen Square in June of 1989.



I think I would put forward the point that, on the ground, in reality, it's not occurring, as a relevant point and argument against that conclusion.

The ICC disagrees with you.

 

[cpwill]

The ICC disagrees with you.

I don't think that is entirely correct, but, it is also irrelevant. China disagrees with me on whether something happened in Tiananmen Square in June of 1989.

Going with the data is probably a better decision-making process than just letting foreigners with their own ax to grind telling me what to think.

 

[venice_ca]

I don't think that is entirely correct, but, it is also irrelevant. China disagrees with me on whether something happened in Tiananmen Square in June of 1989.

Going with the data is probably a better decision-making process than just letting foreigners with their own ax to grind telling me what to think.

The ICC has the expertise and experience in judging these matters, unlike anonymous participants on the internet.

 

[cpwill]

The ICC has the expertise and experience in judging these matters, unlike anonymous participants on the internet.

Actually when it comes to judging wars, I'm what's considered "A Professional", however, that's also irrelevant - as you say, we are anonymous participants on the internet. Our reason and our data matter, not our credentials.

Feel free to take data from the ICC and bring it to bear here, then. However, I don't see how they have much credibility, and "but they think Netanyahu is bad" does not, actually, counter any of the data I posted and linked for you above.

 

[venice_ca]

Actually when it comes to judging wars, I'm what's considered "A Professional", however, that's also irrelevant - as you say, we are anonymous participants on the internet. Our reason and our data matter, not our credentials.

Feel free to take data from the ICC and bring it to bear here, then. However, I don't see how they have much credibility, and "but they think Netanyahu is bad" does not, actually, counter any of the data I posted and linked for you above.

I provided the link to the ICC charges. The fact that they issued the arrest warrants — for both Hamas and Likud persons — counters your claims that Netanyahu and Gallant are above international law.

I don’t recall disputes on the competency of the ICC during the war crimes trials of atrocities committed during the Balkan Wars.

 

[cpwill]

I provided the link to the ICC charges

And I provided you direct data and links to same. Feel free to take data from the ICC and bring it to bear here. However, I don't see how they have much credibility, and "but they think Netanyahu is bad" does not, actually, counter any of the data I posted and linked for you above.

Simply citing "but they issued a warrant" is, as near as I can tell, meaningless.

 

[The Mark]

I provided the link to the ICC charges. The fact that they issued the arrest warrants — for both Hamas and Likud persons — counters your claims that Netanyahu and Gallant are above international law.

I don’t recall disputes on the competency of the ICC during the war crimes trials of atrocities committed during the Balkan Wars.

Perhaps the argument is not "they are above international law because it doesn't apply to them", but rather "international law cannot be enforced on them (easily), so it doesn't apply to them."

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Israel would not have instantly agreed to the ceasefire

Bibi didn't, Donny got pissed that he was "so negative".

Bibi does not want a ceases fire, he needs this war to avoid his political defeat in Israel, to avoid his admins total failure in countering the threat posed by Hamas that his inel was SCREAMING about.

Bibi has had total opposition to any 2 state solution, Bibi wants the Gazans and West Bank Palestinians to disappear.

 

[uptower]

 

[Rogue Valley]

Benjamin Netanyahu is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes (genocide via starvation)

Netanyahu

www.icc-cpi.int