Who made Dr Bruce Ivins take his own life?

[Lamont]

Dr Bruce Ivins is dead. Who would want his death, huh?

In case you don't know, who the hell is that guy, he is a US bio-defence expert who stood behind anthrax-contaminated letters that killed five people. So, why did he commit such a surprising suicide only two days before he had to come up for trial?

Close friends and relatives of Dr Ivins accuse the FBI of hounding him to his death. I'm sure it is the case! He was a witness of creation of new types of inhumane biological-warfare weapon in US secret biological laboratories, including selective biological weapons that affect people depending on their ethnicity (this one is expected to be used against China). The FBI feared that Dr Ivins might cut the bag open at court and decided to wipe him out. Was it a real suicide or the FBI agents "helped" him die, we'll never know.

 

[DeeJayH]

shouldnt this be in the CONSPIRACY THEORY SECTION

not to mention you need to include a link to an actual news story to post here

 

[bhkad]

Dr Bruce Ivins is dead. Who would want his death, huh?

In case you don't know, who the hell is that guy, he is a US bio-defence expert who stood behind anthrax-contaminated letters that killed five people. So, why did he commit such a surprising suicide only two days before he had to come up for trial?

Close friends and relatives of Dr Ivins accuse the FBI of hounding him to his death. I'm sure it is the case! He was a witness of creation of new types of inhumane biological-warfare weapon in US secret biological laboratories, including selective biological weapons that affect people depending on their ethnicity (this one is expected to be used against China). The FBI feared that Dr Ivins might cut the bag open at court and decided to wipe him out. Was it a real suicide or the FBI agents "helped" him die, we'll never know.

This should go in the CONSPIRACY THEORY category.

I guess you have reasons for feeling so sure about this being the case.

Would you mind sharing them with all of us here, please?

Thanks.

And Welcome to DP!

:2wave:

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

*Breaking News* violation. Thread moved.

 

[RedAkston]

Dr Bruce Ivins is dead. Who would want his death, huh?

In case you don't know, who the hell is that guy, he is a US bio-defence expert who stood behind anthrax-contaminated letters that killed five people. So, why did he commit such a surprising suicide only two days before he had to come up for trial?

Close friends and relatives of Dr Ivins accuse the FBI of hounding him to his death. I'm sure it is the case! He was a witness of creation of new types of inhumane biological-warfare weapon in US secret biological laboratories, including selective biological weapons that affect people depending on their ethnicity (this one is expected to be used against China). The FBI feared that Dr Ivins might cut the bag open at court and decided to wipe him out. Was it a real suicide or the FBI agents "helped" him die, we'll never know.

I've got a headache now and it's got Lamont written all over it.

 

[DeeJayH]

I've got a headache now and it's got Lamont written all over it.

if i remember my Excedrin commercials
that means Lamont is the cure for your headache :lol:

 

[RedAkston]

if i remember my Excedrin commercials
that means Lamont is the cure for your headache :lol:

Yeah, but the Excedrin commercials never made sense. :lol:

 

[Gladiator]

I've got a headache now and it's got Lamont written all over it.

This is the guy's first post, and you are already slamming Lamont, in a personal attack that has nothing to do with his question raised about a suicide of a shy, non-self-agrandizing guy. who most certainly would not have acted alone in the Anthrax scare of 2001. There are strong suspicions that 9-11-01 was orchestrated by pre-9-11 Iraq War Planners. The questions have not been answered to my satisfaction.

So is it your asertion that Bruce Irvin acted alone? That questions of lone conspirators have never been raised before? You are saying the US law enforcement authorities don't find it more convenient to blame a single actor?

I raised the questions about Bruce Irvin's suicide in an earlier thread on Conspiracy Theories, 6 hours after the story broke.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...-suicide-case-raises-troubling-questions.html

Questioning whether Bruce Irvin acted alone, and the role of Law enforcement in furthering a single conspirator theory, is responsible thinking for an individual thinking person.

The idea that Pre-9-11 Iraq war planners may have contrived to bring down the WTC Towers 1. 2 and 7, with Termite/Thermate, forged a CIA letter to implicate Sadam Hussein, slanted the Presidential News spokesman and otherwise triecd to snooker the American Public into War with Iraq bears consideration, and honest Debate.

CIA Forged Iraq Intelligence, New Book Says


"Ron Suskind, author of "The Price of Loyalty" and "The One Percent Doctrine," is out with a new book that includes CIA forgery of pre-war intelligence, the Politico reports:"




..

 

[DeeJayH]

Pr-9-11 Iraq war planners may have contrived to bring down the WTC Towers 1. 2 and 7, with Termite/Thermate

:lamo they brought down the towers with termites :lamo

 

[Gladiator]

:lamo they brought down the towers with termites :lamo

I now remember that Anthrax was the cornerstone of the War in Iraq. US Scretary of State gave a UN speeach where he appeared to threaten to release Anthrax in the UN General Assembly.

Saddam Hussein had no idea that not keeping the records of the Anthrax destruction in Iraq, would be his demise.


A Tiny Revolution: Anthrax And The Iraq War


Colin Powell felt he was tricked by Bush and the pre-9-11 Iraq War Planners. Is is possible that there was a deliberte plan to steal or destroy Iraq'a records of destroying their Anthrax? How much would it take to bribe an Iraq Official to hand over the destruction of Anthrax records? That Iraq official would have had no idea of the chain of events to follow.

Once the pre-9-11 Iraq War planners had made sure that the Iraq Anthrax destruction records were not available, or were destroyed, Then it was important to create an Anthrax Scare, so the missing records of the Iraq Anthrax destruction could be exaggerated into some big deal!

Bruce Ivins was a key player in the Pre-9-11 Iraq war planning scheme. Without the 2001 Anthrax scare in the US, Colin Powells speech would not have had as much effect on World Opinion.

Connect the Dots. What a different picture of cause and effect.

"ANTHRAX: Powell noted Iraq had declared it produced 8,500 liters of the biological agent anthrax before 1991. None has been "verifiably accounted for," he said.

No anthrax has been reported found, post-invasion. The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), in a confidential report last September (five months before the Powell speech) said that although it believed Iraq had biological weapons it didn't know their nature, amounts, or condition."


AP Staffer Fact-Checks Powell's UN Speech


"Anthrax

Powell noted Iraq had declared it produced 8,500 liters of the biological agent anthrax before 1991, but U.N. inspectors estimated it could have made up to 25,000 liters. None has been "verifiably accounted for," he said.

No anthrax has been reported found.

The Defense Intelligence Agency, or DIA, in a confidential report last September, recently disclosed, said that although it believed Iraq had biological weapons, it didn't know their nature, amounts or condition.

Three weeks before the invasion, an Iraqi report of scientific soil sampling supported the regime's contention that it had destroyed its anthrax stocks at a known site, the U.N. inspection agency said May 30. Iraq also presented a list of witnesses to verify amounts, the agency said. It was too late for inspectors to interview them; the war soon began."

Powell's Case for Iraq War Falls Apart 6 Months Later





..

 

[RedAkston]

This is the guy's first post, and you are already slamming Lamont, in a personal attack that has nothing to do with his question raised about a suicide of a shy, non-self-agrandizing guy. who most certainly would not have acted alone in the Anthrax scare of 2001. There are strong suspicions that 9-11-01 was orchestrated by pre-9-11 Iraq War Planners. The questions have not been answered to my satisfaction.

So is it your asertion that Bruce Irvin acted alone? That questions of lone conspirators have never been raised before? You are saying the US law enforcement authorities don't find it more convenient to blame a single actor?

I raised the questions about Bruce Irvin's suicide in an earlier thread on Conspiracy Theories, 6 hours after the story broke.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...-suicide-case-raises-troubling-questions.html

Questioning whether Bruce Irvin acted alone, and the role of Law enforcement in furthering a single conspirator theory, is responsible thinking for an individual thinking person.

The idea that Pre-9-11 Iraq war planners may have contrived to bring down the WTC Towers 1. 2 and 7, with Termite/Thermate, forged a CIA letter to implicate Sadam Hussein, slanted the Presidential News spokesman and otherwise triecd to snooker the American Public into War with Iraq bears consideration, and honest Debate.

CIA Forged Iraq Intelligence, New Book Says


"Ron Suskind, author of "The Price of Loyalty" and "The One Percent Doctrine," is out with a new book that includes CIA forgery of pre-war intelligence, the Politico reports:"




..

:rofl :aliens3: :rofl :aliens3: :rofl

 

[Gladiator]

:rofl :aliens3: :rofl :aliens3: :rofl

I thought it was strange that 9-11 and the Anthrax attacks occurred near the same time period. Now I understand that the pre-9-11 Iraq War Planners were setting the stage for the Iraq War. I really never made the connection before, as to how the Anthrax Attacks tied in with a set-up for the Iraq War.

Your smilies are interesting,but your message seems to be that anyone who sees a conspiracy in Anthrax is as loonie as those who claim to have been abducted by aliens. I feel your ridicule, but fail to understad a deeper message, or rebuttal of an Anthrax conspiracy.




..

 

[Tucker Case]

Back to the original question, I bet Dr. David Bruce Ivins took his own life because he kept turning into a giant, green monster everytime he got mad. Basically, bipolar disorder in it's most debilitating form.

That really starts to wear on a guy after a while.

 

[Gladiator]

Back to the original question, I bet Dr. David Bruce Ivins took his own life because he kept turning into a giant, green monster everytime he got mad. Basically, bipolar disorder in it's most debilitating form.

That really starts to wear on a guy after a while.

What medicatons did he use to overdose?

What medications was he on?

What medications had he stopped taking in the last 60 days?

What are the suicide statistics for BiPolar? the Bi-polars I know just live to irritate other people. Suicide would defeat the purpose.


..

 

[Tucker Case]

What medicatons did he use to overdose?

What medications was he on?

What medications had he stopped taking in the last 60 days?

What are the suicide statistics for BiPolar? the Bi-polars I know just live to irritate other people. Suicide would defeat the purpose...

I don't know for sure, but you wouldn't want to make him angry. You wouldn't like him when he was angry. :mrgreen:

 

[Gladiator]

Who was Bruce Ivins corresponding with in e-mails in August and September 2001?

The FBI is quick to say Ivins ACTED ALONE. Which maybe he did. But who was giving his wild delusional ideas reasons to create an Anthrax Scare?

Who gave Ivins the idea that if he wanted his work on the Anthrax vaccine not to end, a catostrophic event should occur involving Anthrax.

What did Ivins say in his letters to Senators and Congressmen?

Which Pre-9-11 Iraq War planners knew about IVINS?

Which pre-9-11 Iraq War Planners knew that Saddam Hussein had lost his records of the destruction of Anthrax?

.

 

[kathaksung]

Dr Bruce Ivins is dead. Who would want his death, huh?

In case you don't know, who the hell is that guy, he is a US bio-defence expert who stood behind anthrax-contaminated letters that killed five people. So, why did he commit such a surprising suicide only two days before he had to come up for trial?

.

He had to come up for trial? Could that be created too? Just like that suspicious "suicide". Because if FBI had a break off on the case, they would beat the drum to say they catch the suspect. But nobody knew they found the suspect. Compare with Hadhill, how media blow the trumpet on that case?

 

[kathaksung]

Ivins never knew he was the "suspect", how could he suicide on something he even didn't know? It was obvious an elimination and a framed case. To quit the real anthrax perpetrator and close the case.

08.08.09. Attorney: Ivins never knew he was ‘the suspect’

Neal Augenstein
Saturday, Aug 9, 2008
As the government pegs the blame for the 2001 deadly attacks on one Army biologist, the attorney for scientist Bruce Ivins says his client never knew he was “the suspect” in the attacks.

“We were never informed or advised that an indictment was imminent of him,” attorney Tom DeGonia tells WTOP. DeGonia’s broadcast interview is Ivins’ lawyers’ first interview since Ivins committed suicide.

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com Attorney: Ivins never knew he was ‘the suspect’

 

[DeeJayH]

Bruce Edwards Ivins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Late in July 2008, investigators informed Ivins of his impending prosecution for his alleged involvement in the 2001 anthrax attacks that Ivins himself had previously assisted authorities in investigating. It has been reported that the death penalty would have been sought in the case.[28] Ivins maintained his security clearance until July 10; he had been publicly critical of the lab's security procedures for several years.

obviously he therefor knew when he killed himself

 

[mogur]

obviously he therefor knew when he killed himself

Any possible indictment was at least weeks away, the investigators claim. Further, his attorneys say that Ivins never knew that he was a suspect. Besides, feelings of guilt are impossible in a sociopathic, homicidal maniac that the FBI has tried to foster as Ivins' image. They accomplished this feat through Jean Duley as a cutout to place their desired portrait of Ivins in the court record via a non-adversarial peace order application. That took the heat off the FBI for any future revelations that would paint them in a bad light (or even into a corner). Very clever. Duley claims the FBI refused to protect her, claiming that they had their hands full watching Ivins. Give me a break!!! She also claims that the FBI then strongly encouraged her to file for a protective injunction. She was so scared by what the FBI told her that she was shaking like a leaf at the courtroom, and proceeded to proffer all sorts of wild claims about Ivins. Evidence of FBI pressure is the fact that she knew there was an "imminent indictment for 5 capital murders". Now, how could she possibly know that? Hm, let me think.

Now, back to the original question of who made Ivins kill himself. The overwhelming cause of suicide is mental illness, especially depression. Dr. Ivins was, and had been suffering from depression for virtually his entire life. A prime candidate, for sure. And there was a serious alcohol addiction, as well. Both of these factors were readily known to him and freely admitted to. But to his credit, Dr. Ivins was able to control these debilitative influences through treatment and abstinence. Until November, 2007.

That is when the FBI started its campaign of pressure against Ivins. They jerked his family out of his own house and locked everyone down in separate rooms for a 24 hour search of his house and vehicles. During this lock down, his daughter complained to Ivins' attorney that the FBI agents showed her autopsy photos of the anthrax victims and pressured her to rat out her father. The son claimed that agents tried to bribe him with the $2.5 million reward, claiming that he could buy a nice sports car with the money, if he would provide evidence against his dad. The search turned up nothing, absolutely nothing. It simply resulted in terrifying Ivins family.

But that was just the beginning. Ivins told friends that FBI agents approached him in a shopping mall and told him, "You killed a bunch of people". They then turned to his wife and asked, "Do you know he killed people?" A Hatfill type close surveillance then proceeded to overshadow Ivins' entire life. And that is when his depression and alcoholism started to take over his life also. There is a word for what caused Dr. Ivins' death. It is called "bullycide", and I am not making that word up. Google it.

 

[DeeJayH]

Further, his attorneys say that Ivins never knew that he was a suspect..

are you sure? maybe you want to read the rest of your post

That is when the FBI started its campaign of pressure against Ivins. They jerked his family out of his own house and locked everyone down in separate rooms for a 24 hour search of his house and vehicles. During this lock down, his daughter complained to Ivins' attorney that the FBI agents showed her autopsy photos of the anthrax victims and pressured her to rat out her father. The son claimed that agents tried to bribe him with the $2.5 million reward, claiming that he could buy a nice sports car with the money, if he would provide evidence against his dad. The search turned up nothing, absolutely nothing. It simply resulted in terrifying Ivins family.

But that was just the beginning. Ivins told friends that FBI agents approached him in a shopping mall and told him, "You killed a bunch of people". They then turned to his wife and asked, "Do you know he killed people?" A Hatfill type close surveillance then proceeded to overshadow Ivins' entire life. And that is when his depression and alcoholism started to take over his life also. There is a word for what caused Dr. Ivins' death. It is called "bullycide", and I am not making that word up. Google it.

thanks for spelling out what you fail to grasp
that is why you go to conspiracy forums
reality is too simple and plain
the FBI 'harassed' him, his wife, his kids
and while that did not make him aware that the FBI were looking at him for it, it caused him to drink while depressed and eventually kill himself
how retarded :roll:

 

[mogur]

Oh, a bully, huh? Nice retort.

Why don't you simply click on the second link in my post, you know, the underlined text? Ivins certainly knew from 2001 that he was on a short list of suspects. And he also witnessed the brutal pressure to make his fellow Detrick employee, Steven Hatfill, cave in. The fact that Ivins was brutalized by the FBI does not signal that an "indictment is imminent". Yet, that was touted in the MSM as the trigger for Ivins' suicide, as well as in your carefully researched post.

And, nice to meet you, mate!

that is why you go to conspiracy forums

I think you might want to re-think that one! It was you that first suggested Lamont's thread be moved to this conspiracy forum. And exactly what is a realistic free-thinker like yourself doing here, in this cauldron of tin foil?

 

[kathaksung]

Quote, "Hair Samples in Anthrax Case Don't Match

Strands From Mailbox in Princeton Are Not From Ivins, Investigators Say

By Carrie Johnson Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, August 14, 2008; Page A02
Federal investigators probing the deadly 2001 anthrax attacks recovered samples of human hair from a mailbox in Princeton, N.J., but the strands did not match the lead suspect in the case, according to sources briefed on the probe.

This Story
Hair Samples in Anthrax Case Don't Match <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/08/14/ST2008081401404.html>
Investigations Blog: Evidence Fuels Speculation

Hair Doesn't Match Anthrax Suspect, Fuels Speculation - Washington Post Investigations
Full Coverage: Ivins Case <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/linkset/2008/08/06/LI2008080601520.html>

 

[DeeJayH]

maybe they match the many people in the post office that unfortunately handled the tainted package
proves absolutely nothing regarding a mentally challenged, suicidal and perhaps apocalyptic mad man

 

[mogur]

Bruce Ivins was a gentle, caring man. That is the opinion of more than 250 friends that attended his funeral. He played piano for 28 years at St. John's the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church, and was known to volunteer to clean up after services. He also volunteered much of his time for the Red Cross. He mentored student and graduate scientists at both the University of Cincinnati where he got his degrees, and at Fort Detrick. Some mourners wept when speakers at the service talked about Ivins' many hobbies, including juggling, target shooting, practical jokes, cartoons and the weather. Colleagues recalled a talented scientist with a probing mind who loved to debate a wide variety of subjects. His neighbors knew Bruce as an avid grass recycler, who encouraged them to also recycle grass clippings.

Gerry Andrews, who worked with Ivins at Fort Detrick for nine years and was the bacteriology division's chief from 2000 to 2003, said that it was rare for Ivins to join the other researchers after work for beer and that Ivins drank so little he was kidded about being a teetotaler. W. Russell Byrne, an infectious disease specialist who worked with Ivins in the bacteriology division at Fort Detrick until Byrne's 2000 retirement from the Army, has kept up with his former colleagues. Byrne said he remembers offering Ivins a beer one night several years ago when Ivins made a rare appearance at a party at Bushwaller's, an Irish pub in the heart of Frederick where their crowd of scientists sometimes gathered. "He declined," Byrne recalled. "He said he had a family history of alcoholism."

In addition to his alcoholism, he suffered from depression. Yet there has been no evidence offered that has shown either that the alcohol or his depression interfered with a normal family life. Until, of course, the FBI started hounding him late last year. We know the above facts to be true. The 64 dollar question, of course, is whether he had a dark side that he managed to keep hidden from everyone who knew him and loved him. The evidence comes from only two sources (so far, at least).

The first is Nancy L. Haigwood, a microbiologist who went to the U of Cincinnati with Ivins. She and her former husband, Carl J. Scandella, think Ivins may have wanted to get close to her when he moved in down the street from the couple in the suburbs of Washington in the early 1980s. Scandella did not know that Ivins had been their neighbor until he was told recently by a reporter. But Haigwood believes Ivins spray painted the letters KKG (Kappa Kappa Gamma) on her car. In spite of this, Ivins and Haigwood keep in touch by phone, letters, and email through the years. When the anthrax attacks happened, the American Society for Microbiology noted that a microbiologist was probably responsible for the anthrax mailings and asked its members to think of possible suspects. Haigwood decided to call the FBI. She then claims that she started to fear that if Ivins found out that she fingered him, that he might want to retaliate against her. That's it. That's the big "stalking" claim against Ivins. Someone who thinks Ivins might have pulled a college prank on her, and who she kept in touch with, but harbored this feeling that he was 'odd'.

The second source for this dark side is the infamous Jean Carol Wittman Duley. The biker druggie who became an addictions counselor trainee at the age of 44. Long after the FBI started its campaign against Ivins, and he went to two four week long detox/rehab sessions, Duley and Ivins ended up in, basically, a 'sobriety school'. Duley was the counselor, but happened to be under house arrest at that time for her latest DUI on Dec 23, 2007. Ivins probably came in on the 9th of July session, blowing off steam, ranting about the pressure on him from the FBI, (or who knows what else, since Duley is in hiding). That scared her into calling the authorities on Ivins, and the rest is history, although a very short history from that point.