Who let Vance into a grown up meeting ?

[dandolo2k]

Quid Pro Quo. Trump demanded his country's rare metals, was he supposed to just hand them over?

Yes he was supposed to hand them over , in return for US “investments” into Ukraine .

 

[dandolo2k]

Gobbledegook.

Have you decided to summarise the general content of all your posts and express their worthiness and value with one succinct original word ? You have succeeded.

 

[panic buyer]

Trump needed his weasel to parrot his bullying taunts.

Trump to Zelenskyy: You are nothing without us.

Vance: Yeah. What the Boss said. Nothing without us.

Vance later: You got him good, Boss. He knows his place now. Should I get your dry cleaning?

Are americans likely to be impressed with those antics ?

 

[Lursa]

I responded to a post. If you already addressed it then my apologies

I responded in several posts. I dont want to retype but feel free to address those directly.

 

[Lursa]

He set up an ambush. Disgusting person.

I think more and more it's being recognized as such. When else have we seen a VP butt into meetings like that?

 

[Lursa]

Are americans likely to be impressed with those antics ?

MAGA is, by dictate.

 

[Roadvirus]

We have different priorities for our country. I am sick of supporting and funding expensive wars that are long past their expiration date. You should be thanking Trump for bringing about peace. Why do you care what any other country thinks of us. They like us only as long as we are doing something for THEM.

It'll be more expensive in the long term if Russia is allowed to be a belligerent shit nation. Ukraine today, possibly Moldova tomorrow. Maybe even a ballsy attack on a NATO member....quite possibly Poland or the Baltic nations.

This is something that effects not just Europe...but us as well. Russia needs to be put down like a rabid dog now.

 

[Roadvirus]

Save your act for the next circus that comes to town.

We just saw one. Trump and Vance, the head clowns, just insulted an ally.

 

[Roadvirus]

We know who set up the ambush:

Nuland!
DRRRRRRRRRRRINK!!!

 

[sanman]

Nuland!
DRRRRRRRRRRRINK!!!

Unless you're already stoned from puffing on "Muh Russia!" every 5 seconds

 

[Minerva]

Saw this on a FB post and the spinmeisters really outdid themselves on this one.

Many of you probably watched what took place between Donald Trump and Zelenskyy tonight. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you might be thinking to yourself, Oh my God, Donald Trump just screwed up.
However, as a lifelong practitioner of martial arts, strategy, and philosophy, let me explain the difference between what you believe you witnessed and what actually happened.
Donald Trump has been under constant political persecution since the beginning of his first term. Over time, he has learned to be patient and calculated.
Tonight, Zelenskyy was invited to the Oval Office. However, both Trump and JD Vance knew exactly what Zelenskyy was going to do—he would use this opportunity, in front of the American people, to make a power play. Both Trump and Vance anticipated this.
When Zelenskyy began appealing to the emotions of the American people, JD Vance stepped in, accusing him of disrespecting Donald Trump. This was brilliant strategy. It’s important to understand that Zelenskyy is trying to gain access to NATO.
Trump knew this but could not allow it to happen. If Ukraine joins NATO, the U.S. would be bound by NATO’s collective defense agreement—an attack on one is an attack on all.
Now consider the larger implications: Ukraine and Russia despise each other. If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, any future skirmish between them would obligate the U.S. to enter into direct conflict with Russia. This would mean World War III. And if that happened, China would have to choose a side—they would almost certainly align with Russia.
So what you witnessed tonight was a setup. Trump and JD Vance knew that the only way to achieve peace was to strategically align, at least on the surface, with Russia. Why? Because Russia would never sign a peace treaty if Ukraine were admitted into NATO.
This is why Trump dismantled Zelenskyy’s argument. And when Zelenskyy, seeing his play failing, tried to backtrack and offer a treaty, Trump refused.
Zelenskyy’s real intent was clear—he would not agree to peace unless security guarantees were in place. But what was he actually saying? That NATO must accept Ukraine. However, Russia would never agree to peace, knowing that NATO, their historical adversary, would surround them.
Zelenskyy, Putin, and Trump all knew this. Zelenskyy, thinking he had Democrats' support, believed he could make this bold move on live television. But Trump and Vance saw right through it and outmaneuvered him.
They knew that, in the short term, Democrats and the media would try to use this moment against them. But they also knew they had two years before midterms to prove their strategy was the right one. So they held their ground—brilliantly so.
Now, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.
By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives—something that would force the U.S. to respond.
Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.
Don’t underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he’s 10 moves ahead of everyone.

 

[Hamish Howl]

It'll be more expensive in the long term if Russia is allowed to be a belligerent shit nation. Ukraine today, possibly Moldova tomorrow. Maybe even a ballsy attack on a NATO member....quite possibly Poland or the Baltic nations.

This is something that effects not just Europe...but us as well. Russia needs to be put down like a rabid dog now.

Baltics maybe.

Russia hasn't got the balls to attack Poland these days.

 

[Rogue Valley]

After his "performance" Friday in the Oval Office, J.D. Vance flew to Waitsfield, Vermont for some skiing and he was met by protesters.

Hundreds protest JD Vance during family ski trip

Photos and videos on social media show protesters in Waitsfield, Vermont, protest Vance following his tense meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

www.newsweek.com

 

[panic buyer]

After his "performance" Friday in the Oval Office, J.D. Vance flew to Waitsfield, Vermont for some skiing and he was met by protesters.

Hundreds protest JD Vance during family ski trip

Photos and videos on social media show protesters in Waitsfield, Vermont, protest Vance following his tense meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

www.newsweek.com

American tourists I have met recently apologise for trump as the first thing they say.
They shouldnt be ashamed. Everybody understands the predicament they are in.
Hounding trump and vance/muskis a perfectly valid use of time.

 

[Roadvirus]

After his "performance" Friday in the Oval Office, J.D. Vance flew to Waitsfield, Vermont for some skiing and he was met by protesters.

Hundreds protest JD Vance during family ski trip

Photos and videos on social media show protesters in Waitsfield, Vermont, protest Vance following his tense meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

www.newsweek.com

Let the backfiring begin.

 

[Isidore]

Who let Vance into a grown up meeting ?

J.D. most likely asked to be present because of his overwhelming concern for Ukraine and its people.


(Eight seconds)

 

[panic buyer]

J.D. most likely asked to be present because of his overwhelming concern for Ukraine and its people.


(Eight seconds)

That must be it.

 

[joluoto]

Dear me. This seems to be a direct result of Russian disinformation that trump/vance have swallowed whole.
Ukraine may not be sweet people but they are clearly the victims here.
What they are being offered is a jack not a deal.

Vance seemed to be in the room to provoke as the two double teamed on Zelensky.

I think the aim is to clear the way for the trump surrender to putin. The choice for europe is clear. Stop Putin in Ukraine or stop him in the Baltics/Poland.

I think it would be easier here unless trump supplies arms to Moscow.

The american electorate put these half wits in place. They have a lot to answer for.

Who put him there? Peter Thiel.

 

[oneworld2]

This is just projection on your part to try to pivot something you feel more comfortable debating.

To downplay or deny the USA's involvement in the creation of this war is to play dumb imo. It's relevant to the debate and it's something that we have seen played out in US foreign policies all over the globe. That's just an obvious fact. Maybe it's you that is uncomfortable with its inclusion because you really know the truth you just choose to live in denial of it.

I'm not deflecting, im pointing out to complain about the EU not negotiating in good faith is stupid when Russia wasn't either in the first place, and was forcing Ukraine to do after invading it. Merkel saying it was just to buy time is not even remotely the worst thing to come out of it.

Of course you're deflecting from the fact that the very thing you accuse Russia of can be seen and was admitted to by parties you have no such condemnation of.

No it's not?

And you expect to be taken seriously after making such an obvious bs and garbage statement as the above? lol

The UN Charter is THE pinnacle of security agreements that was and is aimed at deterring international criminality. It's no surprise it came after the most costly war in history precisely because of the carnage that went on in it.

You are trashing this, imo, because you know that the USA is likely a worse violator at a global level than ever Russia has been

Neither of these were security arrangements.

Ensuring Iran doesn't develop it's own nuclear weapons capability is NOT a security agreement ?

Agreeing on the reduction of inter continental nuclear weapons isn't a security agreement?

Your posts get worse as the go on imo.

"Maps don't lie"

I don't get you putting up a map from the first world war to serve as some sort of rejection that Russia continues to take over and occupy more Ukrainian territory. It's as weird as it gets imo.

Did I say that? No, i pointed the limitations of Russian abilities and the assumption their victory is inevitable is foolish.

It was the obvious follow on from your bizarre take.

Russia, like in Afghanistan or Chechnya will never be able to claim a complete victory even if it were to take control of all of Ukrainian lands , as can be seen in the cases of US illegal invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, that's my take. What Russia can do and will do is to destroy and wreck Ukraine and kill a whole lot more of its people and THAT'S why this needs to be ended as soon as possible. People who genuinely care about Ukrainians would think this too imo. US imperialist apologists such as yourself pretend to care as they continue to support more death and destruction.

I do care, clearly more than you, who thinks that Putin can be trusted to maintain a peace treaty when he has not backed down from.his war aims.

Keep telling yourself that garbage as you continue to seek even more death and destruction and reject any attempt to end this via a diplomatic solution, it actually speaks volumes about where your priorities lie.

 

[Jredbaron96]

To downplay or deny the USA's involvement in the creation of this war is to play dumb imo.

It's dumb that in a blatant case of Russian paranoia fueled by a dictator you find the need to blame the US for Putin being a Panslavist.

You're obsessed with blaming NATO for states voluntarily joining it and convinced it posed some huge threat to Russia despite there being no troop buildup along its borders, and based on your previous claims, a complete failure to understand NATO's force allocation and disposition.

Of course you're deflecting from the fact that the very thing you accuse Russia of can be seen and was admitted to by parties you have no such condemnation of.

Because it's nonsense.

German actions towards Ukraine were dominated by feeble and reluctant messages of support even after Minsk broke down almost immediately. You are simultaneously

1) Pretending that Merkel trying to salvage the failure of her foreign policy for the past 20 years was an actual revelation on not a face saving gesture on her part

2) Even if European states never intended to obey Minsk, claiming it's some kind of egregious betrayal of trust is nothing more than hypocrisy given the nature of why Minsk was signed in the first place; Russia had illegally invaded and occupied Ukraine.

And you expect to be taken seriously after making such an obvious bs and garbage statement as the above? lol

The UN Charter is THE pinnacle of security agreements that was and is aimed at deterring international criminality. It's no surprise it came after the most costly war in history precisely because of the carnage that went on in it.

You are trashing this, imo, because you know that the USA is likely a worse violator at a global level than ever Russia has been

Ensuring Iran doesn't develop it's own nuclear weapons capability is NOT a security agreement ?

Agreeing on the reduction of inter continental nuclear weapons isn't a security agreement?

Your posts get worse as the go on imo.

Your post demonstrates zero understanding of what a security arrangement means in the context of this discussion, and even absent the context it certainly doesn't apply to the Iran nuclear deal.

I don't get you putting up a map from the first world war to serve as some sort of rejection that Russia continues to take over and occupy more Ukrainian territory. It's as weird as it gets imo.

You're not very good at this.

What does that map show? German advances in the Spring of 1918; clearly, Germany gained ground and the map reflected it. How did that war end btw?

It was the obvious follow on from your bizarre take.

Russia, like in Afghanistan or Chechnya will never be able to claim a complete victory even if it were to take control of all of Ukrainian lands , as can be seen in the cases of US illegal invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, that's my take. What Russia can do and will do is to destroy and wreck Ukraine and kill a whole lot more of its people and THAT'S why this needs to be ended as soon as possible. People who genuinely care about Ukrainians would think this too imo. US imperialist apologists such as yourself pretend to care as they continue to support more death and destruction.

What you refuse to acknowledge at any step in this conversation is that Russia has repeatedly made it clear it desires the subjugation of Ukraine and is willing to continue to that end, just as you refuse to acknowledge that Russia has not backed down from its war aims, just as you refuse to acknowledge that Russian occupation will not bring the end of Ukrainian suffering.

Vance lost his temper when Zelensky pointed out the obvious; Ukraine has no reason to trust Putin given his repeated violations of treaties, and because Trump's plan rests entirely on "we can trust Putin", Vance got offended.

 

[LouC]

I feel for Zelensky, kind of reminded me of Arnold Schwarzenegger in Kindergarten Cop.

 

[slick]

Perhaps Trump doesn't understand what "raw" earth and "rare" earth minerals are? I have always thought that JD was Trump's protection from being removed from office.

Vance will be leading this country for a long time. He has the 'girth of being' needed for the job - he's solid he has no weak points

Current odds for the 2028 nomination: JD Vance (52¢), Vivek Ramaswamy (8¢), Ron DeSantis (6¢), Donald Trump Jr. (6¢), Marco Rubio (6¢), Donald Trump (2¢)

 

[Rogue Valley]

Vance will be leading this country for a long time. He has the 'girth of being' needed for the job - he's solid he has no weak points

Current odds for the 2028 nomination: JD Vance (52¢), Vivek Ramaswamy (8¢), Ron DeSantis (6¢), Donald Trump Jr. (6¢), Marco Rubio (6¢), Donald Trump (2¢)

Mr. "Eyeliner" will never get elected to the US presidency.

MAGA will be a a receeding nightmare after this final Trump term.

 

[iguanaman]

Ok. Let's admit that Trump is ready to sell out Ukraine for better relations with Russia. He is a businessman after all. May be this sale is a better deal for US.

Russia really has nothing we want and their people are too poor to buy anything from us either. Besides Russia hates America and will never be our friend. Trump is being played.

 

[iguanaman]

Vance will be leading this country for a long time. He has the 'girth of being' needed for the job - he's solid he has no weak points

Current odds for the 2028 nomination: JD Vance (52¢), Vivek Ramaswamy (8¢), Ron DeSantis (6¢), Donald Trump Jr. (6¢), Marco Rubio (6¢), Donald Trump (2¢)

Vance has the lowest approval ratings of any VP in history. He is nothing but Theil's puppet and has nothing even resembling a mind of his own.