Who let Vance into a grown up meeting ? (1 Viewer)

[vesper]

What was great about that deal for Ukraine?

To be able to receive lots of money from the U. S. to rebuild their country is a very big deal.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Dear me. This seems to be a direct result of Russian disinformation that trump/vance have swallowed whole.
Ukraine may not be sweet people but they are clearly the victims here.
What they are being offered is a jack not a deal.

Vance seemed to be in the room to provoke as the two double teamed on Zelensky.

I think the aim is to clear the way for the trump surrender to putin. The choice for europe is clear. Stop Putin in Ukraine or stop him in the Baltics/Poland.

I think it would be easier here unless trump supplies arms to Moscow.

The american electorate put these half wits in place. They have a lot to answer for.

The other kid?

 

[Juin]

That's obvious. They could have had a great deal with the U.S.

So exactly how does Zelensky salvage the situation? He must have very few sympathises in the White House after this. Whether he eroded his support in Congress and the Nation at large remains to be seen

 

[MAGAnificent]

Dear me. This seems to be a direct result of Russian disinformation that trump/vance have swallowed whole.
Ukraine may not be sweet people but they are clearly the victims here.
What they are being offered is a jack not a deal.

Vance seemed to be in the room to provoke as the two double teamed on Zelensky.

I think the aim is to clear the way for the trump surrender to putin. The choice for europe is clear. Stop Putin in Ukraine or stop him in the Baltics/Poland.

I think it would be easier here unless trump supplies arms to Moscow.

The american electorate put these half wits in place. They have a lot to answer for.

So much TDS.

 

[vesper]

So exactly how does Zelensky salvage the situation? He must have very few sympathises in the White House after this. Whether he eroded his support in Congress and the Nation at large remains to be seen

Well, this sure isn't looking that way with his interview with Bret Baier.

 

[Gordy327]

That's cute you think so.

Most of us know better.

"Cute" is not the word I'd use.

 

[dandolo2k]

I have to say the stress of the war has been getting to Zelensky for a while now. He has apparently lost touch with what is feasible and what is not. Certain realities dont matter to him anymore. He appears not to accept that the west was only gonna back Ukraine short of WWIII. He appears not to accept that the US was not gonna fight a forever proxy war. Worse, and he has to be alone in this regard, he appears not to grasp that Trump is a prickly character not to publicly tangle with

Yea, Khruschev the Ukrainian, pounding away with a shoe at the UN

I have never seen an exchange like that in the White House.

Yesssss .... WE are walking thru the great seismic shocks. I know the foreign folks. YOu can never afford yourself a freedom of speaking like this, and what's worse, publicly!!! You will be cancelled after this.
He just don't understand that the words are not the cards in the hand. It's so unfortunate that Zelensky does not play cards. IF you have no good cards you are nothing. THat is Trump's religion. That's all Western folks' religion.
He knows that P. has the right cards, and Z. hasn't.

 

[ElChupacabra]

America preserves some interest in maintaining the status quo and ceasefire , to protect it's share in minerals mining....

No, and that's exactly the problem. Trump did not want to make any security guarantees. This deal had nothing to with any ceasefires.

 

[dandolo2k]

No, and that's exactly the problem. Trump did not want to make any security guarantees. This deal had nothing to with any ceasefires.

Ok . put yourself in Tump's place. What "security guarantees" are you going to offer ?
There was a proposal to secure Ukrains NATO optional membership in case of second Russian "aggression"...

 

[Gordy327]

Ok . put yourself in Tump's place. What "security guarantees" are you going to offer ?
There was a proposal to secure Ukrains NATO optional membership in case of second Russian "aggression"...

If I was in Trump's place, I would demand Putin withdrawal from Ukraine or else the US military, and possibly NATO, will get involved. One has to stand up to bullies and aggressors like Putin and show we're not fooling around anymore.

 

[Lursa]

If I was in Trump's place, I would demand Putin withdrawal from Ukraine or else the US military, and possibly NATO, will get involved. One has to stand up to bullies and aggressors like Putin and show we're not fooling around anymore.

Vance speaking

So media talking head conclusions seem to be that mango MAGAt magnet intentionally had Vance make it adversarial and confrontational. That the meeting was to create a pretext to deny help to Ukraine, pull away from NATO, and re-align the US with the Russian coalition of NK, Iran, and China.

That this is the main reason the meeting was televised. For an excuse to have this on the record to demonize Zelensky and blame him.

Heh, well it sure ends MMM's hopes of being the hero, ending the war, bringing peace. I guess Putin told him no...I guess he's going for strongman wannabe instead.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Ok . put yourself in Tump's place. What "security guarantees" are you going to offer ?

There are plenty of options, but primarily financial support as it's done in the past.

There was a proposal to secure Ukrains NATO optional membership in case of second Russian "aggression"...

Not by Trump, in fact he said Ukraine needs to forget about that.

 

[trixare4kids]

Slowly comes an understanding of a disaster. US got bogged down in unwinnable endless proxy war.

With the exception of two World Wars and the Korean War, there's been a pattern of the above, getting bogged down in conflicts that probably should not concern us like this war has done. This is Biden's mess, Trump is left to clean up.

Time to move on.

Absolutely.

 

[trouble13]

Right now, I dont think Zelensky is the right man to lead Ukraine. He is refusing to play the hand fate has dealt him, insisting instead on playing a hand he does not have. Elections have consequences. The war party lost. His job right now is simple: how to deal with an administration reluctant to continue the war. He is fumbling that badly. I am not sure whether he has been living in a hole; he should know better Trump's temperament. He should know better that engaging this administration publicly in a manner that they deem disrespectful is disastrous for Ukraine.

The silver lining is that he has exposed the many in the American media and Congress of their anti-American views

 

[dandolo2k]

If I was in Trump's place, I would demand Putin withdrawal from Ukraine or else the US military, and possibly NATO, will get involved. One has to stand up to bullies and aggressors like Putin and show we're not fooling around anymore.

What is P is no impressed with your empty threats of NATO being involved ?

 

[dandolo2k]

The silver lining is that he has exposed the many in the American media and Congress of their anti-American views

BEing ready to build good relations with your opponents like China and Russia is not the same as being Anti-American.

 

[Peter]

It was clear to me that Zelensky wanted a guarantee from the US that should Putin break the peace deal, the US would come to their rescue. No guarantees.

I felt certain that there would have been a peace deal made by the end of the afternoon.
That doesn't look like this is on track though. However, the press is reporting President Trump asked President Zelensky to leave the WH because he said Zelensky is not ready for peace. Trump's goal is peace.

Erm, I'm pretty sure every peace deal in history comes with conditions about what happens if either side breaks a cease fire.
It's standard procedure or else why bother if either side can just rebuild the military and start again.

If the Trump team didn't expect that basic question then they really are a bunch of idiots.

 

[Roadvirus]

That's fine with me but I am not so sure Europe is going to be as eager to help him as you think. Trump may very well look for them to repay Ukraines debt to America

Ukraine doesn't need to pay us back. Neither does Europe. Everything we gave Ukraine was worth every cent. Russia's been beaten & humiliated. That's repayment enough.

 

[dandolo2k]

Right now, I dont think Zelensky is the right man to lead Ukraine. He is refusing to play the hand fate has dealt him, insisting instead on playing a hand he does not have. Elections have consequences. The war party lost. His job right now is simple: how to deal with an administration reluctant to continue the war. He is fumbling that badly. I am not sure whether he has been living in a hole; he should know better Trump's temperament. He should know better that engaging this administration publicly in a manner that they deem disrespectful is disastrous for Ukraine.

I think that Security "guaratees" is the only option that would allow to save "face" to Zelensky and get out of his war mess. So now he has NO clear way out of the mess. He is in a deep deep trouble.

 

[trixare4kids]

The silver lining is that he has exposed the many in the American media and Congress of their anti-American views

Yep.
Lol, he ought to read this forum.

 

[dandolo2k]

Ukraine doesn't need to pay us back. Neither does Europe. Everything we gave Ukraine was worth every cent. Russia's been beaten & humiliated. That's repayment enough.

Amen.

 

[trouble13]

"ha, just wait until we make things worse for everyone!"

Let me settle into my lazyboy first. This is going to take awhile.

 

[Roadvirus]

Zelensky was wanting a NATO lite back door agreement from the U.S for their security. That wasn't part of the offer put forth to Zelensky.

I thought "deals" meant both sides get something out of it.

 

[trixare4kids]

Ukraine doesn't need to pay us back. Neither does Europe. Everything we gave Ukraine was worth every cent. Russia's been beaten & humiliated. That's repayment enough.

Do you admit we were fighting a proxy war against Russia? Time to bring it to an end.

 

[noonereal]

Vance seemed to be in the room to provoke as the two double teamed on Zelensky

Clearly this was set up in advance by Trump.