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Who is the most loathsome political figure in American history?

TurtleDude said:
that means nothing.
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So lets see now .... we have the opinion of an ideological extremist on the fringe of the political continuum that FDR is nearly the spawn of Satan and is responsible for most of the wrong in America on the one hand and then we have the opinion of thousands of political science and history experts in survey after survey conducted by a wide variety of groups and organizations over the last sixty years and in all of them FDR ranks as one of the three GREAT PRESIDENTS.

Which one do we give credence to? :shock:

Let me think about it and I will get back to you in a few weeks after I weigh both of those very carefully. :roll::doh
 
haymarket said:
So lets see now .... we have the opinion of an ideological extremist on the fringe of the political continuum that FDR is nearly the spawn of Satan and is responsible for most of the wrong in America on the one hand and then we have the opinion of thousands of political science and history experts in survey after survey conducted by a wide variety of groups and organizations over the last sixty years and in all of them FDR ranks as one of the three GREAT PRESIDENTS.

Which one do we give credence to? :shock:

Let me think about it and I will get back to you in a few weeks after I weigh both of those very carefully. :roll::doh
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lots of people consider FDR's destruction of the Bill of rights as the worst thing any president has done

and anyone who actually supports the constitution-especially the bill of rights must admit that FDR crapped all over the constitution

socialists of course support what he did
gun banners support what he did
people who really don't' care about the constitution but want more government positively love him
 
Dayton3 said:
No American citizens are being rounded up and sent to camps for years on end today.
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I could come back with a wise crack about how many conservatives believe Obama has set up FEMA concentration camps, etc. But I won't. That's too easy.

Anyway the Patriot Act, warrantless searches, NSA, etc., all in the name of 'security' after 9/11.. No different than what was done in the name of 'security' during WWII.

If people are going to criticize 1 Admin they GOT to criticize the other. They were both guilty as hell in crapping on the Constitution.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I could come back with a wise crack about how many conservatives believe Obama has set up FEMA concentration camps, etc. But I won't. That's too easy.

Anyway the Patriot Act, warrantless searches, NSA, etc., all in the name of 'security' after 9/11.. No different than what was done in the name of 'security' during WWII.

.
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Can you list the locations or relocation camps we have in the United States for citizens never accused or convicted of anything?

If you cannot, then today doesn't remotely compare to World War Two.
 
have tried to identify for myself who might be the worst of the worst

jackson is a ****ing bastard who decimated my tribe. however, that is partially offset by some of the positive aspects of his political life, especially including making the white house open to the public

a johnson was a dick who retarded our nation's social justice by many generations. but he was thrown into an arena for which he was not prepared. booth was probably the more responsible culprit of the two for this blight upon our nation's history

herbert hoover was at the helm when millions were subjected to abject impoverishment. but his neglect was benign

then there was mcnamara, the whizkid, who whizzed on our nation as well as a third world nation (or two). but his damage was not intentional malice. he thought he had answers yet was never able to understand the problem. dumb ass technocrat

jesse helms. as a newly arrived north carolinian at age 16, he was someone i admired, based on his TV commentary. and i still see him as a rare politician who would stand his ground, without sticking a wet finger in the air of public opinion, to chart his political course. but he was mean spirited. malignant. and from my unique political vantage, i was able to document that his insider political actions did not correspond to that of his public persona. he was corrupt. he used his considerable powers to provide largesse to his cronies. his feet were really of clay, the self serving son of a bitch

and after pondering this question i realized the answer to this thread's question would not be that difficult to actually conclude. because this fellow is a sociopath. someone, charged with determining who would be the shrub's running mate then selected himself. who the **** does that!? who outs a CIA operative only to try to silence her spouse from disclosing the lies his regime has perpetrated upon the public. who throws a tantrum when his chief of staff is not pardoned for his traitorous actions. who stacked the legal deck to make sure that the geneva convention was circumvented to enable torture to be conducted in our nation's name. cheney 'wins' this decision hands down ... albeit with the middle finger extended in his direction
 
Dayton3 said:
Can you list the locations or relocation camps we have in the United States for citizens never accused or convicted of anything?

If you cannot, then today doesn't remotely compare to World War Two.
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Funny how you keep ignoring the NSA, the Patriot Act, warantless searches, torture and all the other things the last Admin did that crapped on the constitution.

I'm sure you'll defend Bush and Cheney but criticize FDR and Hoover. And only because FDR has a D after his name, and Bush has an R.

Chuck the politics.
 
radcen said:
In your opinion, who is the most loathsome political figure in American history?

For me, it would be Senator Joseph McCarthy. A truly vile individual, IMO, from top to bottom and to his core.

President Andrew Jackson would be #2.
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. McCarthy and Nixon.
 
justabubba said:
herbert hoover was at the helm when millions were subjected to abject impoverishment. but his neglect was benign
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I don't think Hoover is even close. Granted, his response was ineffective, but the cause of the Great Depression was in no way his doing. The pieces for that were set in place long before he took office. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
radcen said:
I don't think Hoover is even close. Granted, his response was ineffective, but the cause of the Great Depression was in no way his doing. The pieces for that were set in place long before he took office. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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instead of taking any action to assist the citizens who were i a bad way, he did nothing
which is why the underclass which was assisted by FDR, who enabled them to work government funded jobs so their families did not starve, tended to have his photo hung above their mantles
 
justabubba said:
instead of taking any action to assist the citizens who were i a bad way, he did nothing
which is why the underclass which was assisted by FDR, who enabled them to work government funded jobs so their families did not starve, tended to have his photo hung above their mantles
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Noted, but to me the difference is intent. Hoover, I believe, honestly believed he was doing right by doing nothing. He was wrong, but there was no ill intent on his part.

Somebody like a McCarthy, IMO, not only knew what he was doing was wrong, but did what he did as a means to the end of his own aggrandizement.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Funny how you keep ignoring the NSA, the Patriot Act, warantless searches, torture and all the other things the last Admin did that crapped on the constitution.

I'm sure you'll defend Bush and Cheney but criticize FDR and Hoover. And only because FDR has a D after his name, and Bush has an R.

Chuck the politics.
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The NSA has been around for decades before 9-11.

Warrantless searches have also been done for years before 9-11.

The Patriot Act is far, far, far from the demonic law you act like it is.

Waterboarding is not torture. Besides it wasn't done on American citizens so who cares.
 
Dayton3 said:
The NSA has been around for decades before 9-11.

Warrantless searches have also been done for years before 9-11.

The Patriot Act is far, far, far from the demonic law you act like it is.

Waterboarding is not torture. Besides it wasn't done on American citizens so who cares.
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Yep. All you care about is the D or R after the name. The politicians will continue to take more and more liberties away from us and you'll excuse them because there might be an R after their name. You and people like you are part of the problem.
 
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SenorXm/Sirius said:
Yep. All you care about is the D or R after the name. The politicians will continue to take more and more liberties away from us and you'll excuse them because there might be an R after their name. You and people like you are part of the problem.
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I've voted for Democrats before (for Congress) so don't accuse me of blind partisanship.

I don't freak out about the Patriot Act and the like because despite all the hysterics I can't seem to find any evidence of anyone actually losing any rights because of it.
 
Dayton3 said:
I've voted for Democrats before (for Congress) so don't accuse me of blind partisanship.

I don't freak out about the Patriot Act and the like because despite all the hysterics I can't seem to find any evidence of anyone actually losing any rights because of it.
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Because you said this earlier:
Waterboarding is not torture.
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I'm positive you haven't noticed the rights we've been losing.
 
Dayton3 said:
Which American citizens have been waterboarded?
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Doesn't matter. Waterboarding isn't torture, Right?

As far if they were/are American citizens if you really gave a sh@t about our rights and our Constitution their nationality shouldn't mean a damn thing, but to you it does. If you are too blinded by politics to see for yourself that once our government starts torturing ANYONE we're all ****'ed, then nothing I say will change your mind.

Good Day.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Doesn't matter. Waterboarding isn't torture, Right?

As far if they were/are American citizens if you really gave a sh@t about our rights and our Constitution their nationality shouldn't mean a damn thing, but to you it does. If you are too blinded by politics to see for yourself that once our government starts torturing ANYONE we're all ****'ed, then nothing I say will change your mind.

Good Day.
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People forget that if you read the Constitution, the 8th Amend. only bans "Cruel and Unusual PUNISHMENT"

it says nothing about using cruel and unusual practices for the purposes of INTERROGATION.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Doesn't matter. Waterboarding isn't torture, Right?

As far if they were/are American citizens if you really gave a sh@t about our rights and our Constitution their nationality shouldn't mean a damn thing, but to you it does. If you are too blinded by politics to see for yourself that once our government starts torturing ANYONE we're all ****'ed, then nothing I say will change your mind.

Good Day.
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You sure seem worked up just because a handful of terrorist suspects had water poured in their face.
 
Dayton3 said:
People forget that if you read the Constitution, the 8th Amend. only bans "Cruel and Unusual PUNISHMENT"

it says nothing about using cruel and unusual practices for the purposes of INTERROGATION.
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It is fascinating how hypocritical conservatives are. You hate the government, you don't trust the government, you want more government transparency, you believe the government is inept and never ever does anything right. But you defend it when it illegally gathers info on it's citizens, and when it lies about what it's doing in the name of 'security', etc. etc.. Then you believe they are doing it all for your best interests. And many believe they have never or will ever abuse and use such powers on their own citizens. Even though they have abused their power many times.
 
In terms of presidents I suppose I would have to go with FDR followed by Lincoln.

Though LBJ and Jackson are pretty good competitors.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
It is fascinating how hypocritical conservatives are. You hate the government, you don't trust the government, you want more government transparency, you believe the government is inept and never ever does anything right. .
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If your talking about me then where have I indicated any of those beliefs?

But that said, I think the federal government does do some things right. Mainly involving national defense and security.

I don't think they do things right in terms of handling the economy and so called social engineering.
 
Dayton3 said:
If your talking about me then where have I indicated any of those beliefs?

But that said, I think the federal government does do some things right. Mainly involving national defense and security.

I don't think they do things right in terms of handling the economy and so called social engineering.
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I guess it now comes down to what 'does things right' mean. One of the most, IF NOT THE MOST wasteful and corrupt departments in the government is the DoD. That's not a knock and the people in the military, but just how it's run and how wasteful it is.

But that's another discussion for another thread.
 
Roger B Taney for engineering the Dred Scott decision.
 
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