This was something that the Young Guns and the reformicons tried to put forward. Energetic government need not require a truly nanny-state, it just needed a government that would respect and respond to the aspirations of its populace, targeting specific populations worse off if need be. I thought a lot of their proposals were still too rooted in the past 40 years to address contemporary social issues, but a number of them were certainly worth pondering.To my mind, strategically, I do not think the problem with republican candidates is that they are not conservative enough, but that they have not learned yet how to sell their version of conservatism to the current makeup of the US. Let me use an example:
Republicans tend to see their lack of support among black people and hispanics and get frustrated. The result of that frustration is talk of them wanting "free stuff", government hand outs, and so on. That is a stupid way to think of it, and further, being frustrated is a mistake. That low support should be seen as an opportunity. This is an easy area to expand your support. To do that, first you have to stop talking about them as being all welfare mothers, criminals, and having their hands out. People are funny, they tend to not vote for those who are insulting to them(and I really do not think republicans even realize they are doing this, though it is obvious when looking at it from the outside). Then you have to tailor your message to them when you talk to them. You do not change the policy, you change how you present the policy. Why are conservative principals going to make their lives better?
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"went all Zyphlin"
Canadian. Ineligible Owens Ineligible.
Agree 100%
I agree. I simply think the Democrats have been far more successful at it over the past 15+ years. Prior to that, I'd say the Republicans were far more successful at it, with the whole "family values" shtick being a perfect example of it back then.
If my assumption is correct, who takes over the wreckage that is the Republican party?
OK, I'm assuming Trump loses and loses big. Yes, things can change between now and the election, especially with the debates still in play, but right now the smart money is on Hillary. And I think Trump may suffer the worse Republican defeat in my generation. But this isn't what I want to discuss. If my assumption is correct, who takes over the wreckage that is the Republican party?
Will it be Trump or someone who picks up his "ideology"? I think Trump himself won't stick around after a loss, but someone could try to pick up the mantle and lead his followers with anti-PC, anti-trade, anti-immigrant, isolationist message. I don't see anyone the horizon though. And a good portion of Trump's supporters are not traditional Republicans. Many are typically apolitical. I think there is a good chance without Trump stiring up their passions they fade back into the background.
Will it be the establishment? Some folks have said the establishment will respond to an epic loss this year by saying to the Tea Party/hard right/extremists (their terms, not mine) "See we tried it your way and we loss massively". But Trump really isn't a hard right guy or a Tea Partier, at least in the original sense of the term. And there are still plenty of folks on the right who loath the establishment, while not being Trump backers. Many of the issues that caused people to embrace an outsider like Trump are not going away, even if Trump does.
In fact Ted Cruz was Trump's longest lasting rival and commanded a significant following of his own. He's more of the true Tea Party, fiscal conservative, anti-establishment guy. And I think after Trump goes down in flames, he's refusal to endorse Trump at the convention will be seen as a principled and correct stand. Endorsements mean little these days in terms of actual votes, so you can't really blame Cruz for a Trump loss, especially if I am correct and Trump loses big. But Cruz taking a public stand will be seen as brave and principled compared to establishment folks like the Bushes, McCain, Romney, et all who just sat things out. And much better than sell outs like Ryan who surrendered any shred of principles they may have still had when they endorsed Trump.
But Cruz has some weak points as well. He's not a very charismatic candidate to put it mildly. His likeability is low. I think Cruz will run for the nomination again in 2020 and have a very good chance, but is no lock to win. But I think the true fiscal conservatism he represents has a real chance of taking control of the party. That may or may not come tied to hardline social conservatism (which Cruz also represents quite well). Rand Paul could mount a comeback (though he has his own flaws as a candidate). Maybe someone who is not even on the radar.
In my mind, the Trump nomination has been an embarrassment and a disaster for the GOP. A low point for a party that I left 10 years ago for its continued failure to act upon the rhetoric it campaigns on. But in the wreckage, I hold out some hope that maybe something good can re-emerge. If that is the case, then maybe Trump's nomination isn't a total loss.
Fair enough. I think people either forget, or don't know, that the Republican party all but didn't exist before it elected it's first President. In the cycle before, it hardly registered. So parties can and do rise from either nothing, or from the ashes of what they had become.
I have been a registered Republican for quite a long time. Call it many decades. I too am not pleased with the direction the party has taken in recent years, perhaps even a decade or so. I am not pleased with the influences that have been allowed to have greater impact than they I believe they should. However, I am a realist. I don't get everything I want all the time. Not suggesting you require that yourself.
I am heartened by the results of this election cycle in regard to the candidate for the Presidency. Not necessarily by the person selected, but by the voters who told the status quo to take a hike. That is a step in the right direction.
Cruz has too long a string of failure without wins(plus he has painted himself as a religious nutjob), and Ryan has not produced either, both face almost insurmountable obstacles. As much as I find this disgusting I think Kasich is in the best position.
my guess is that Paul Ryan makes a run for president pretty soon; probably 2020, if Clinton wins. if Trump wins, the GOP is in real trouble, IMO.
I disagree. Whether Trump wins or not, the GOP will likely rise from the ashes as a party with the establishment oligarchy broken up. The democrat party could use the same medicine.
The problem is that that party apparatus and most republicans in congress over the last couple decades at least have become democrat party-lite. They actually still write and at convention times vote on and approve a conservative platform.....however that is where they leave it. They certainly to not govern by it. They are afraid to do anything other then maintain the establishment status quo where they listen to their big donors, and only lip service to actual conservative causes. They largely ignore their core voting base other then during elections. That is why the 2016 race blew up on the party. That is why only candidates running as political outsiders stood a chance. I thoroughly dislike Trump. However if he does win, perhaps the establishment oligarchy will be broken up and the party will return to listening to it's constituents, more then it's big donors. Many democrats on the board seem to be gloating, however the democrat party is in even worse shape.
Ryan will be billed as the next Reagan, and more accurately so than all of the other ones. the establishment GOP isn't going anywhere, though Trump will probably do some temporary damage. my guess is that he loses, so that will mean less damage to the party than if he were to win.
this is, of course, my opinion. a lot can happen in politics in four years, so it is what it is. however, that's the extrapolation that i see given the current data. it will be interesting to see how it plays out, though. also, i don't support Ryan at all. his health care proposals are the opposite of the direction that i would like to see us move in where that issue is concerned.
The problem is that at this point in time, Ryan is the leader of the establishment in the House. He is part of the problem. He represents nearly every bad stance that led to the outsider movement. He will have to grow a spine and start listening to the republican voting base or he will eventually be tarred and feathered and run out of town just like John Boehner and Eric Cantor were.
The problem is that at this point in time, Ryan is the leader of the establishment in the House. He is part of the problem. He represents nearly every bad stance that led to the outsider movement. He will have to grow a spine and start listening to the republican voting base or he will eventually be tarred and feathered and run out of town just like John Boehner and Eric Cantor were.
completely disagree. he just needs to keep out of this Trump debacle as much as he can and keep doing the calm and considered "above it all" thing for four years (eight at most.) if he does that, he'll sail to the nomination more easily than even Hillary Clinton did. the right wing will get behind him, and that includes those on the right who hate the establishment before voting for them anyway. if he's nominated in 2020, he'll probably win against an incumbent Clinton, and that's all that will matter to the right by then. ****, they probably made a serious effort to draft him for this election just like they did for SOTH, but he's smart to bide his time.
When I see things like this, I feel like Republicans are replaying the fight between Danton and Robespierre.
The problem is that at this point in time, Ryan is the leader of the establishment in the House. He is part of the problem. He represents nearly every bad stance that led to the outsider movement. He will have to grow a spine and start listening to the republican voting base or he will eventually be tarred and feathered and run out of town just like John Boehner and Eric Cantor were.
You are missing the point of what is going on with the republican party. You like generally like Ryan because he is a moderate.
The republican base is sick and tired of status quo moderates. Ryan is the head moderate (RINO) in the GOP House of representatives. He need to do more then just bide his time. He needs to start listening to the conservative base. He needs to start honoring campaign promises.
yawn.
Luckily, there are a lot of republicans who are aware that 'establishment' is not synonymous with 'bad'. Ryan seems to be a good leader, his inheritance would be a best case scenario for the GOP. That's the reality.
nope, and i wouldn't vote for him. he wants to privatize a program that i want to expand into single payer, and with a friendly congress, he has a very good chance of getting that done. i consider him to be more dangerous than even the Ted Cruz types, because he can actually get **** done. i'm making a prediction based on the current data. if you think that i want him as a "moderate," compromise president, though, you are incorrect.
yeah, and Bush was a RINO, too. if Ryan gets the nomination, enough of the base will show up to pull the lever for him.
Not if he continues to take a dump on the GOP platform.
I'll grant that Ryan is a better leader then the pile of crap that he replaced, however he is still a leader over the establishment status quo RINOs that the core conservative voting base is rejecting. Have not not given any thought to why the only two GOP primary candidates with any chance of winning the primary ran as outsiders? As a diehard librul democrat you have no clue what the GOP realities are. You have learned absolutely nothing from the primaries.
it's bunny pebbles in comparison to what Trump is currently doing to the party.
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