Who do you support the Iraqi insurgency or U.S. and coalition forces?

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It dawned on me for all of the lefties here who claim they support the troops but not their mission then it must be the insurgents mission which they actually support.

So let's put all of our cards on the table here because I'm quite certain that atleast amongst the radicals on this board that they do infact support the insurgency so which is it folks?

I'll even make it an anomous poll so that you can weigh in your support for the beloved "resistance" without being outted.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Now think rationally, here, tot. First of all, why would anyone sane in America support the insurgency?

Second of all, ever think there's a third or even a fourth option here? Black and White may be pretty colors, but there's an entire spectrum beyond them.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Now think rationally, here, tot. First of all, why would anyone sane in America support the insurgency?

The same reason they supported the VC and NLF IE because they hate the U.S..

 

[buttonpsi]

Is this poll is as ridiculous as my suspicion that you would love to see people support the insurgency more than you would like to see 100% for the coalition? Is that what you really want to see as the poll result?



That couldn't be why you subconsciously placed "insurgency" as the first option.

 

[the makeout hobo]

The same reason they supported the VC and NLF IE because they hate the U.S..

TOT, you really need a wakeup call. Very very few people in the US hate america. There might be some super radical hippies who do, but that's about it. Most of the people who don't support the Iraq war have better reasons. Usually its because they don't want to have so many soldiers die, or because they believe its a destructive foreign policy. That you think its because they hate america really goes to show how little you understand the other side. If you want, I can give you some reading to help you understand what the other side really thinks. It would do you a lot of good, in my opinion.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Is this poll is as ridiculous as my suspicion that you would love to see people support the insurgency more than you would like to see 100% for the coalition? Is that what you really want to see as the poll result?



That couldn't be why you subconsciously placed "insurgency" as the first option.

I think it's an honest question considering the fact that I see alot more vitriol around here for U.S. soldiers than I ever have for the insurgency, and that's not just here that's actually the case with the current majority party in Congress as well.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

TOT, you really need a wakeup call. Very very few people in the US hate america. There might be some super radical hippies who do, but that's about it.

You mean like the "most important living intellectual Noam Chomsky" quote unquote?

 

[buttonpsi]

I think it's an honest question considering the fact that I see alot more vitriol around here for U.S. soldiers than I ever have for the insurgency, and that's not just here that's actually the case with the current majority party in Congress as well.

Take into acount that their motivations may be subconscious too. That doesn't mean it is an "honest" question. I have a gut feeling you would love to see someone for the insurgency JUST to argue with them. Regardless of the fact that it would be a better scenario if 100% were for the troops.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Take into acount that their motivations may be subconscious too. That doesn't mean it is an "honest" question. I have a gut feeling you would love to see someone for the insurgency JUST to argue with them. Regardless of the fact that it would be a better scenario if 100% were for the troops.

We shall see but I doubt those who vote for the insurgency will have the honesty to admit it which is why I made the poll anonymous.

 

[the makeout hobo]

You mean like the "most important living intellectual Noam Chomsky" quote unquote?

That's right tot. Ignore everything else I said so you can find something to pick at.

Really, I haven't read any of Chomsky's works, so I don't really know what he writes, and I don't really care. And as to whether he's the "most important living intellectual", see above. However, he's not the everyone that wants out of Iraq, and many different people have many different viewpoints. And once again, there's more colors than black and white, you should remember that. So please stop with the red herrings and lets try to have an honest discussion as to why people might not support the war. Like I said, two leading reasons are wanting to protect the troops lives and the fear of the impact it'll have on world opinion.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

That's right tot. Ignore everything else I said so you can find something to pick at.

Really, I haven't read any of Chomsky's works, so I don't really know what he writes, and I don't really care. And as to whether he's the "most important living intellectual", see above. However, he's not the everyone that wants out of Iraq, and many different people have many different viewpoints. And once again, there's more colors than black and white, you should remember that. So please stop with the red herrings and lets try to have an honest discussion as to why people might not support the war. Like I said, two leading reasons are wanting to protect the troops lives and the fear of the impact it'll have on world opinion.

So again who do you support?

Really though if you listen to the vitriol coming out of some of the more vocal anti-war groups; such as, code pink, or ANSWER they are most certainly for the insurgency and opposed to our troops.

 

[Leeguana]

I think it's an honest question considering the fact that I see alot more vitriol around here for U.S. soldiers than I ever have for the insurgency, and that's not just here that's actually the case with the current majority party in Congress as well.

Could you provide some examples of vitriol towards the troops from this board or from the dems in congress? I've never heard anyone in congress speak negatively about our soldiers, and I haven't been on this forum long enough to encounter any "troop-bashers".

 

[the makeout hobo]

So again who do you support?

Really though if you listen to the vitriol coming out of some of the more vocal anti-war groups; such as, code pink, or ANSWER they are most certainly for the insurgency and opposed to our troops.

Please back up your statement about code pink and ANSWER with actual quotations. It helps to show everyone exactly what you're talking about.

Who do I support? I support changing the troops mission into one that should bear better results. Sorry if that's not "either/or" enough for you. But there are more ways of looking at the question than you have it.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Could you provide some examples of vitriol towards the troops from this board or from the dems in congress? I've never heard anyone in congress speak negatively about our soldiers, and I haven't been on this forum long enough to encounter any "troop-bashers".

Congress:

John Kerry calling the troops terrorists:

“….And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women,..”

John Kerry calling the troops stupid:

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

John Kerry calling the troops war criminals:

“I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.”

Jack Murtha calling the troops murderers:

“…they {our Marines} killed innocent civilians in cold blood,"

Dick Durbin comparing our troops to Nazi’s and more:

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazi’s, Soviet’s in their gulags, or some mad regime — Pol-Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners."

Hillary Clinton calling Petraeus a liar:

"Despite what I view as your rather extraordinary efforts and your testimony both yesterday and today, I think that the reports that you provide to us really require the willing suspension of disbelief."

Barack Obama`accusing our troops of murdering civilians:

“We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous pressure over there."

Dennis Kucinich calling our troops war criminals while praising the Syrians as "humanitarians":

"I feel the United States is engaging in an illegal occupation ... I don't want to bless that occupation with my presence,I will not do it...

What most people are not aware of is that Syria has taken in more than 1.5 million Iraqi refugees, the Syrian government has actually shown a lot of compassion in keeping its doors open and being a host for so many refugees."

As to the members on this board stick around there's a couple of full fledged supporters of the ISI and AQI and the average radical leftists who accuse our troops of being war criminals on a daily basis.

 

[winston53660]

So please stop with the red herrings and lets try to have an honest discussion as to why people might not support the war. Like I said, two leading reasons are wanting to protect the troops lives and the fear of the impact it'll have on world opinion.

Ya know what I find really interesting is perhaps in a different situation I might have been a supporter of this war. However with the war on terror in Afghanistan I do think invading Iraq was and is the stooopidist action to take at the time. I also think our continued presence is going to extended the WOT in the short and long run.

 

[buttonpsi]

We shall see but I doubt those who vote for the insurgency will have the honesty to admit it which is why I made the poll anonymous.

We shall see...

I think we may all learn something about human nature in this war.

Keep in mind though this poll is completely opinion-based, with no hope of showing any relevent opinion even. And any factually argument would not sway someone from such a radical viewpoint you wish to argue with.

 

[the makeout hobo]

TOT, please provide links and contexts for the quotes. For instance, I believe Dick Durbin in the above quote was talking about Abu Gharib, where a few soldiers were threatining people with dogs and sticking nightsticks up people's asses, not to mention other forms of torment. It seems many of these quotes are being spun out of context.

 

[the makeout hobo]

As to the members on this board stick around there's a couple of full fledged supporters of the ISI and AQI and the average radical leftists who accuse our troops of being war criminals on a daily basis.

like who? I'm really curious for quotes, now. If we have terrorists on board, I wanna know.

 

[buttonpsi]

Keep reading, you will see what I mean...

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Please back up your statement about code pink and ANSWER with actual quotations. It helps to show everyone exactly what you're talking about.

Jodie Evans leader of Code Pink:

We must begin by really standing with the Iraqi people and their right to resist. I can remain myself against all forms of violence, and yet I cannot judge what someone has to do when pushed to the wall to protect all they love. What does the Iraqi resistance have to lose? They are fighting for their country, to protect their families and to preserve all they love. They are fighting for their lives, and we are fighting for lies. It is so amazingly obvious; we must get out of Iraq now. They will rebuild their country, it will take time, a long time, but they cannot start until we are gone.

ANSWER, Antiwar Rallies and Support for Terror Organizations

http://www.adl.org/israel/answer.asp

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

like who? I'm really curious for quotes, now. If we have terrorists on board, I wanna know.

Sure thing:

Maybe killing as many Americans and puppet police as possible, that is the best way to rehabilitate them.
You don't see Pfc. Thomas Tucker behaving badly anymore, do you


http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-iraq/23532-real-reasons-us-occupation-iraq-7.html#post642705

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-i...-whacked-surge-al-qaeda-bunny.html#post641860

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

TOT, please provide links and contexts for the quotes. For instance, I believe Dick Durbin in the above quote was talking about Abu Gharib, where a few soldiers were threatining people with dogs and sticking nightsticks up people's asses, not to mention other forms of torment. It seems many of these quotes are being spun out of context.

No Durbin was referring to Gitmo based on an FBI report later proved to be totally false.

 

[the makeout hobo]

Sure thing:



http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-i...-whacked-surge-al-qaeda-bunny.html#post641860

Ah, got it. Some obscure poster that no one's heard of and who might be a sock puppet. Just checking. I was afraid it was someone major.

No Durbin was referring to Gitmo based on an FBI report later proved to be totally false.

Well you can hardly blame a man for trusting an FBI report, can you?

How's it coming getting context or links for any other quotation?

Also, once again, do you concede that there can be more than two viewpoints here?

 

[Leeguana]

Congress:

John Kerry calling the troops terrorists:

“….And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women,..”

Etc., no need to clog up the board by reposting all of these.

I've seen or heard all of these before. Do you feel the claims are untrue? We all know nasty ***** happens during a war. And the % of "bad" soldiers in a war is at least as great as the % of civilians here at home who would commit crime (probably even higher among soldiers in war due to extreme stress). It seems to me these members of congress were either pointing out those anomolies, or making a statement as to our policy, which puts our brave men and women in unacceptable situations.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Well you can hardly blame a man for trusting an FBI report, can you?

It was an unverfied report and Durbin quoted it stating it as fact when he knew damn well that it was not verified.

How's it coming getting context or links for any other quotation?

You've got google.

Also, once again, do you concede that there can be more than two viewpoints here?

No you either support the troops or you support the insurgency there is no middle ground.