who do U think is the best president ever

[cnredd]

FDR no doubt, he turned this country around with extreme reforms, took us from a country in depression into a world superpower, he is an essential, without him, we would probably not be the world superpower right now, Nazis would've have most likely taken over all of western europe and russia, the axis would've taken over the world, then Germany would turn on Japan because of their supremacy idea.... blacks and asians could be extinct if not for FDR..

OR....

Someone other than FDR could've brought this country into WWII before events happened that forced us into it, thereby saving millions of lives and thousands of soldier's lives due to attacking Germany and its allies BEFORE they were able to build up enough strength to cause the damage they did...

FDR waited...and got MANY more killed than if he had struck earlier...

More soldier's were killed in one afternoon on the beaches of Normandy than in the last three years in Iraq...

If FDR pulled that move today he would've been taken out back and shot...

 

[Synch]

OR....

Someone other than FDR could've brought this country into WWII before events happened that forced us into it, thereby saving millions of lives and thousands of soldier's lives due to attacking Germany and its allies BEFORE they were able to build up enough strength to cause the damage they did...

FDR waited...and got MANY more killed than if he had struck earlier...

More soldier's were killed in one afternoon on the beaches of Normandy than in the last three years in Iraq...

If FDR pulled that move today he would've been taken out back and shot...

Compared to the rest of the casulties in WWII, what we suffered was nothing..

Dude you are hardcore right winged, we were in a ****ing depression in the 30s, he turned it around with liberal reform policies etc, a Republican would've never achieved those extremely liberal bills and our country would've stayed in a depression while nazis took over the world.

Face it, if a republican was in FDR's place, we would be speaking German right now.

 

[Connecticutter]

Compared to the rest of the casulties in WWII, what we suffered was nothing..

Dude you are hardcore right winged, we were in a ****ing depression in the 30s, he turned it around with liberal reform policies etc, a Republican would've never achieved those extremely liberal bills and our country would've stayed in a depression while nazis took over the world.

Face it, if a republican was in FDR's place, we would be speaking German right now.

FDR's policies prolonged the depression. Most were aimed at consolidating his political power, and some like Social Security were so short sighted that they are causing us trouble today. Things never truly got back to normal until after World War II.

 

[Thorgasm]

FDR's policies prolonged the depression. Most were aimed at consolidating his political power, and some like Social Security were so short sighted that they are causing us trouble today. Things never truly got back to normal until after World War II.

The only short sighted things concerning Social Security were the vast extension of life spans and insurance gouging. Are you saying that there would have been a policy that would have had things back to normal before the end of WWII? Would he have created war materials and resources out of thin air?

 

[The Real McCoy]

Dude you are hardcore right winged

Actually he's pretty moderate. You on the other hand seem to be pretty hardcore left wing but what the hell does political affiliation have to do with the facts?

we were in a ****ing depression in the 30s

Yes.

he turned it around with liberal reform policies etc

It's pretty much common knowledge among mainstream economists that it was WW2 that got us out of the depression.

a Republican would've never achieved those extremely liberal bills and our country would've stayed in a depression while nazis took over the world.

How do you figure?

Face it, if a republican was in FDR's place, we would be speaking German right now.

Interesting. Did you know Dwight D. Eisenhower (an evil Republican) led the allied invasion of Normandy which turned the tide on the war in Europe?

 

[Connecticutter]

The only short sighted things concerning Social Security were the vast extension of life spans and insurance gouging. Are you saying that there would have been a policy that would have had things back to normal before the end of WWII? Would he have created war materials and resources out of thin air?

No, the war needed to be paid for. However, we didn't have to get ourselves into the great depression. Part of the blame goes to the Fed, which actually kept increasing interest rates as the stock market was crashing. However, our trade policies, the practice of taxing and subsidizing to create economic inefficiencies, and the new regulations placed on industry didn't help any.

 

[Synch]

Actually he's pretty moderate. You on the other hand seem to be pretty hardcore left wing but what the hell does political affiliation have to do with the facts?




Yes.




It's pretty much common knowledge among mainstream economists that it was WW2 that got us out of the depression.




How do you figure?




Interesting. Did you know Dwight D. Eisenhower (an evil Republican) led the allied invasion of Normandy which turned the tide on the war in Europe?

1. Meh I'm actually very conservative.
2. If you look at many of FDR's reforms, they were very liberal, I doubt a Republican president would've sign so many.
3. What does a general's political affiliation have to do with anything?
4. I do agree social security was short termed, I don't know why it's still in use today.

 

[Thorgasm]

I do agree social security was short termed, I don't know why it's still in use today.

Essentially, it is govt. subsidizing of insurance companies and the health care/pharmaceutical industry.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

There is no equality without freedom, there is no freedom without equality.

The first part is true. The second part is arrant nonsense. I'm free, but I'm neither Bill's Gates' equal, nor Stephen Hawking's, to identify economic and intellectual giants.

Nor is the average man my equal. Are they less free than I? Hardly.

I'm free because Gates doesn't control my life, nor does Hawking. Nor do I control others.

Marxism is just nonsense that can't be applied to any group whose individuals can't connect all the member's names to all the member's faces...ie any modern society. That's why all Marxist based nations collapse or move away from Marxism.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Compared to the rest of the casulties in WWII, what we suffered was nothing..

Dude you are hardcore right winged, we were in a ****ing depression in the 30s, he turned it around with liberal reform policies etc, a Republican would've never achieved those extremely liberal bills and our country would've stayed in a depression while nazis took over the world.

Face it, if a republican was in FDR's place, we would be speaking German right now.

Hmmm...your post is strong on emotion, heavy on faith, but a tad short when it comes to facts.

Roosevelt's policies made things worse. Even worse than what Hoover had tried to do.

Why else do you think it lasted a whole decade?

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

The only short sighted things concerning Social Security were the vast extension of life spans and insurance gouging. Are you saying that there would have been a policy that would have had things back to normal before the end of WWII? Would he have created war materials and resources out of thin air?

No, nothing short sighted about imposing a Ponzi Scheme on the national culture. Ponzi Schemes are always great if you're the first one's to sign up.

And because Charles Ponzi was a figure from the 1920's, Roosevelt and all his crowd of gangsters knew that perfectly. The scam of Socialist Security was imposed on the American people with full knowledge that it wasn't ethical or moral to pass their expenses on to not only theirs but other people's children.

Hint: Wars do not cause economies to grow. Nor do hurricanes, earthquakes, forest fires, or terrorists. All destructive processes are just that, destructive. They consume existing resources, and they consume other resources to replace them, resources that could have become assets turn into liabilities. The whole notion of war as an economic growth engine bespeaks an appalling ignorance of economics.

 

[-Demosthenes-]

Compared to the rest of the casulties in WWII, what we suffered was nothing..

Dude you are hardcore right winged, we were in a ****ing depression in the 30s, he turned it around with liberal reform policies etc, a Republican would've never achieved those extremely liberal bills and our country would've stayed in a depression while nazis took over the world.

Face it, if a republican was in FDR's place, we would be speaking German right now.

Our economy is in our mind. If everyone is confident in the economy, spends a lot, and trusts banks and other money organizations then the economy can only get better. What FDR did more than anything was to give hope to the people by looking like he was trying.

He did a little to help, but in reality all he did was give the American people hope, WWII gave the economy a jump, and the people (who had FDR's hope) did the rest.

In WWII, I don't see him as instrumental in the winning of the war, in fact he was dead before it was over. What he did was promise to stay out of the war, then got sucked into it by Peal Harbor. In fact the same thing that probably would have happened to any president, Democrat or not.

And lastly why do you tie the depression to a Nazi take over?

No, nothing short sighted about imposing a Ponzi Scheme on the national culture. Ponzi Schemes are always great if you're the first one's to sign up.

And because Charles Ponzi was a figure from the 1920's, Roosevelt and all his crowd of gangsters knew that perfectly. The scam of Socialist Security was imposed on the American people with full knowledge that it wasn't ethical or moral to pass their expenses on to not only theirs but other people's children.

What?

Hint: Wars do not cause economies to grow. Nor do hurricanes, earthquakes, forest fires, or terrorists. All destructive processes are just that, destructive. They consume existing resources, and they consume other resources to replace them, resources that could have become assets turn into liabilities. The whole notion of war as an economic growth engine bespeaks an appalling ignorance of economics.

Wars don't cause economics to grow? Where did you learn this? WWII cause millions of jobs in steel, munitions, food stuffs, and other war materials areas. The unemployment rate was just about zero, from the highest it had ever been in the 30's, all because of WWII.

 

[Thorgasm]

Hint: Wars do not cause economies to grow. Nor do hurricanes, earthquakes, forest fires, or terrorists. All destructive processes are just that, destructive. They consume existing resources, and they consume other resources to replace them, resources that could have become assets turn into liabilities. The whole notion of war as an economic growth engine bespeaks an appalling ignorance of economics.

Hint: I didn't say that war grows economies. You said that things weren't back to normal until after the war. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[The Real McCoy]

1. Meh I'm actually very conservative.

Your writings seem to indicate the contrary.

2. If you look at many of FDR's reforms, they were very liberal, I doubt a Republican president would've sign so many.

I wasn't questioning the fact that FDR's policies were liberal, I asked how you figured a Republican would have allowed the Depression to continue and Nazis to take over the world.

3. What does a general's political affiliation have to do with anything?

Your rampant Republican bashing forced me to point that simple fact out. Generals have far greater impact on the outcome of a war than the President.

4. I do agree social security was short termed, I don't know why it's still in use today.

Why would the government want to relinquish one of it's biggest strangleholds on the economy?

 

[Connecticutter]

Hint: I didn't say that war grows economies. You said that things weren't back to normal until after the war. Thanks for proving my point.

No, I was the one who made that comment about getting back to normal. The economy did grow by a lot during World War II. This is not true for the countries that were getting bombed the **** out of them. However, this is not the peacetime growth that's preferable. While we produced more, people had to make more sacrafices, so that's what I meant.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Hmmm...your post is strong on emotion, heavy on faith, but a tad short when it comes to facts.

Roosevelt's policies made things worse. Even worse than what Hoover had tried to do.

Why else do you think it lasted a whole decade?

WOW.

Please Tell me how the

TVA= employed young men to build dams and power the entire Tenessee valley.

CWA=Federal public works to pay unemployed

PWA= State Public works to pay unemployed

NIRA= regulation of industrial wages and prices as to not rip off workers and customers

FDIC= insurance that your bank money will actaully be in the bank/ restored confidence in banking system

and the CCC made things worse.

Look it up my close minded friend. FDR got us out of the mess that Hoover put us into. He cut taxes for the Rich and raised them for the poor. Instead of investing in business, the rich kept it because of the scare of losing it.
He supported no relief for poor and jobless. He believed it would just end. This really helped us get out. If you still don't understand then please realize that Repubs were in power 12 years leading up and during the depression

 

[Connecticutter]

WOW.

Please Tell me how the

TVA= employed young men to build dams and power the entire Tenessee valley.

CWA=Federal public works to pay unemployed

PWA= State Public works to pay unemployed

NIRA= regulation of industrial wages and prices as to not rip off workers and customers

FDIC= insurance that your bank money will actaully be in the bank/ restored confidence in banking system

and the CCC made things worse.

They turned parts of our economy into a state-run system, which is more inefficient and corrupt than the free market.

Look it up my close minded friend. FDR got us out of the mess that Hoover put us into. He cut taxes for the Rich and raised them for the poor. Instead of investing in business, the rich kept it because of the scare of losing it.
He supported no relief for poor and jobless. He believed it would just end. This really helped us get out. If you still don't understand then please realize that Repubs were in power 12 years leading up and during the depression

That's just election propaganda put out by the Roosevelt campaign. Hoover actually started the new deal in many way. If you believe that Hoover "got us into the depression" then you are ignorant of economic history of the 1920s and 1930s.

I recommend that you read FDR's Folly by Jim Powell.

 

[-Demosthenes-]

Look it up my close minded friend. FDR got us out of the mess that Hoover put us into.

Again, it's Hoover's fault... Not the overproduction mixed with the lack of a market because business owners got all the money, not the "buying on margin" in the stock market, not the crash of the stock market, it was Hoover that did it all, in a couple of months, all by himself.

It's better that you never learn history at all if all you do is over simplify it.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Again, it's Hoover's fault... Not the overproduction mixed with the lack of a market because business owners got all the money, not the "buying on margin" in the stock market, not the crash of the stock market, it was Hoover that did it all, in a couple of months, all by himself.

It's better that you never learn history at all if all you do is over simplify it.

If you actually read my posts, you would realize that I said that 12 years of Republican Executive control was a reason for the depression, not just Hoover, it was Coolidge too.

It wasn't only buying on margin but also the fact that banks would lend money to people who bought stocks and when they didn't have money to pay the banks back. Thus the banks wouldn't have money when people tried to withdraw so they would just close.

One of the most horrible things FDR did then was something that your ignorance will not permit you to learn. Everytime you go to a bank, it's FDIC approved. Meaning that you'll have insurance for your money. This restored trust in our banking system.

 

[LeftyHenry]

They turned parts of our economy into a state-run system, which is more inefficient and corrupt than the free market.


That's just election propaganda put out by the Roosevelt campaign. Hoover actually started the new deal in many way. If you believe that Hoover "got us into the depression" then you are ignorant of economic history of the 1920s and 1930s.

I recommend that you read FDR's Folly by Jim Powell.

Yes, yes, unefficent which is why it created more then 12 million jobs and beat the **** out of the depression, right?

But of course yes even though it was the ****ing free market that got us into the depression, we want to continue to use it just like Hoover did which put us deeper into the Depression (By the way I never claimed it was just Hoover who got us in it but he sure did put us deeper into it, I said it was 12 years of Republican Executive control. Also Bank failure, Stock market crash, and overproduction).

Election propaganda doesn't take care of 25% unemployment rate. Propaganda doesn't take tanks and kill US Army Vets. Election propaganda doesn't use the trickle down philosphy when the rich aren't going to invest or will invest abroad. Election Propaganda doesn't start any Gov't programs or Soup kitchens

 

[Connecticutter]

Yes, yes, unefficent which is why it created more then 12 million jobs and beat the **** out of the depression, right?

Uh, wrong. The depression didn't end until World War II. There was a breif upturn in the middle of the 30s after the supreme court knocked all of FDR's programs as unconstitutional such as the NIRA and the AAA.

There was another economic downturn in the late 30s after FDR's second New Deal. Republicans gained power as people started to realize the failure of FDR's policies, but he won the 1940 election because of the impending war.

But of course yes even though it was the ****ing free market that got us into the depression, we want to continue to use it just like Hoover did which put us deeper into the Depression (By the way I never claimed it was just Hoover who got us in it but he sure did put us deeper into it, I said it was 12 years of Republican Executive control. Also Bank failure, Stock market crash, and overproduction).

Election propaganda doesn't take care of 25% unemployment rate. Propaganda doesn't take tanks and kill US Army Vets. Election propaganda doesn't use the trickle down philosphy when the rich aren't going to invest or will invest abroad. Election Propaganda doesn't start any Gov't programs or Soup kitchens

It was not the free market, and you treat Hoover exactly the same way as many democrats now treat Bush: always wrong and to blame for everything no matter what.

If you want socialism, look at France and Germany with their 10% unemployment rates, dreary economies, and 50% unemployment rates in disenfranshised minority communities.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Look it up my close minded friend. FDR got us out of the mess that Hoover put us into. He cut taxes for the Rich and raised them for the poor. Instead of investing in business, the rich kept it because of the scare of losing it.

He supported no relief for poor and jobless. He believed it would just end. This really helped us get out. If you still don't understand then please realize that Repubs were in power 12 years leading up and during the depression

Look it up, my friend. The cause of the mess was the signing of the Federal Reserve Act by Wilson. By the time Hoover came on the scene, the avalanche was waiting for a little push.

Roosevelt made things worse, as the Depression grew. Needless to say, one DOESN'T increase public confidence in the dollar by stealing their gold.

Nor does one create wealth by destroying produce.

 

[-Demosthenes-]

One of the most horrible things FDR did then was something that your ignorance will not permit you to learn. Everytime you go to a bank, it's FDIC approved. Meaning that you'll have insurance for your money. This restored trust in our banking system.

It is a weak debater indeed that feels the need to put insult into every one of his points.

But of course yes even though it was the ****ing free market that got us into the depression, we want to continue to use it just like Hoover did which put us deeper into the Depression (By the way I never claimed it was just Hoover who got us in it but he sure did put us deeper into it, I said it was 12 years of Republican Executive control. Also Bank failure, Stock market crash, and overproduction).

Another example of History over-simplified.

BTW saying, "By the way I never claimed it was just Hoover who got us in it..." right after saying the opposite, "FDR got us out of the mess that Hoover put us into," will only confuse people. Choose one opinion to avoid our confusion.

That's just election propaganda put out by the Roosevelt campaign. Hoover actually started the new deal in many way. If you believe that Hoover "got us into the depression" then you are ignorant of economic history of the 1920s and 1930s.

Hoover started the "alphabet soup" organizations, before FDR was ever president. I"ll quote Wikipedia for this, there are too many to list myself.

Signed the Emergency Relief and Construction Act, the nation's first Federal unemployment assistance.

Increased public works spending. Some of Hoover's efforts to stimulate the economy through public works are as follows:

Asked Congress for a $400 million increase in the Federal Building Program
Directed the Department of Commerce to establish a Division of Public Construction in December 1929.

Increased subsidies for ship construction through the Federal Shipping Board
Urged the state governors to also increase their public works spending, though many failed to take any action.

Signed the Federal Home Loan Bank Act establishing the Federal Home Loan Bank system to assist citizens in obtaining financing to purchase a home.
Increased subsidies to the nation's struggling farmers with the Agricultural Marketing Act, but with only limited impact.

Established the President's Emergency Relief Organization to coordinate local, private relief efforts resulting in over 3,000 relief committees across the U.S.
Urged bankers to form the National Credit Corporation to assist banks in financial trouble and protect depositor's money.

Actively encouraged businesses to maintain high wages during the depression. Many businessmen, most notably Henry Ford, raised or maintained their worker's wages early in the Depression in the hope that more money into the pockets of consumers would end the economic downturn.
Signed the Reconstruction Finance Act. This act established the

Reconstruction Finance Corporation, which made loans to the states for public works and unemployment relief. In addition, the RFC made loans to banks, railroads and agriculture credit organizations.

Raised tariffs to protect American jobs. [although it didn't work well]
[...]

He tried, even disregarded his party increasing spending this much.

FDR just did it more, and more conspicuously; showing that he was trying, and making sure everyone knew he was trying.

Yes, yes, unefficent which is why it created more then 12 million jobs and beat the **** out of the depression, right? [sic]

WWII created millions of jobs in hundreds of industries, and they continued on this stimulated growth after the war during the rebuilding of Europe. Most of these jobs came from these, but FDR did make people feel better, and he did create many thousands of jobs. Just don't over-blow his influence on the economy.

Election propaganda doesn't take care of 25% unemployment rate. Propaganda doesn't take tanks and kill US Army Vets. Election propaganda doesn't use the trickle down philosphy when the rich aren't going to invest or will invest abroad. Election Propaganda doesn't start any Gov't programs or Soup kitchens. [sic]

Wartime industries do though.

There was another economic downturn in the late 30s after FDR's second New Deal. Republicans gained power as people started to realize the failure of FDR's policies, but he won the 1940 election because of the impending war.

Oh his programs were definitely helping, and if WWII never broke out then I think by 1950 or '55 the economy would have been back up and running, provided that FDR didn't die, and he had no visions for great power.

But those who are not students of history don't understand that WWII was the catalyst that brought the US, and the world out of the Depression. Hard line liberals think if FDR's policies got us out of the depression then liberal ideas are correct. The opposite is also true of those on the right, who say that he only made it worse. It's obvious to any one who actually studies history, that he did help a great deal, but WWII was the direct cause of the end of the Depression.

Obvious partisan "versions" of history are just stupid, don't interpret history on your political standing, interpret history by what actually happened.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Uh, wrong. The depression didn't end until World War II. There was a breif upturn in the middle of the 30s after the supreme court knocked all of FDR's programs as unconstitutional such as the NIRA and the AAA.

There was another economic downturn in the late 30s after FDR's second New Deal. Republicans gained power as people started to realize the failure of FDR's policies, but he won the 1940 election because of the impending war.

It was not the free market, and you treat Hoover exactly the same way as many democrats now treat Bush: always wrong and to blame for everything no matter what.

If you want socialism, look at France and Germany with their 10% unemployment rates, dreary economies, and 50% unemployment rates in disenfranshised minority communities.

Uh, Not Wrong. Depression was serverly hurt when FDR proposed New Deal. Look at CWA, PWA, CCC, and TVA. Employed millions! That's the biggest crap I've heard in the past week. It was Hoover's "it's gonna end eventually" and trickle down policies that worsened the depression. Your facts are screwed because the upturn happened when The New dal was proposed. If you think that Supreme Courts ruling of NIRA and AAA being unconstitutional produced good results then think again my friend. Direct aid to people actually helps NOT hurts.

Hoover didn't do anything except build Boulder Dam. Bush hasn't done anything except get 2000 Americans killed.

France is actually under a conservative party now but that doesn't matter.

The euro socialists actually have a higher GDP then us and a stronger currency.

More people live comfortably in France compared to here. Although we have only 5% unemployment rate, there is at least a 15% poverty rate which is just as dangerous. In France that doesn't exsist.

I think the minority groups in France aren't acutally that bad. Conneticutter, you obviously have no idea how horrible conditions are in minority communities today. There is drug deals and deaths daily. This isn't what happens in France.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Hoover didn't do anything except build Boulder Dam. Bush hasn't done anything except get 2000 Americans killed.

His tax cuts have been a blessing for the economy.

France is actually under a conservative party now but that doesn't matter.

Yea, Chirac and his lot are real conservatives :roll:

The euro socialists actually have a higher GDP then us.

Maybe because Europe is an entire ****ing continent with well over twice our population. GDP per capita isn't higher.

More people live comfortably in France compared to here. Although we have only 5% unemployment rate, there is at least a 15% poverty rate which is just as dangerous. In France that doesn't exsist.

Tell that to the rioters.

I think the minority groups in France aren't acutally that bad.

You're right, the only bad thing is the way they're treated. What are the minority unemployment rates there? 50%?

Conneticutter, you obviously have no idea how horrible conditions are in minority communities today. There is drug deals and deaths daily. This isn't what happens in France.

Yes, French minority communities are a real paradise. They only go out in mass riots for fun.