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Who are you voting for in November? (The March Edition)

The Next President should be........


  • Total voters
    114
  • Poll closed .
If everything still holds like it is. I'm most likely going to vote for Trump again, which really isn't that much of a surprise to me. I've been highly skeptical of the democrat's chances and their motives since 2016, so sticking with the better end of the deal seems like the more prudent choice.

I really wish someone else in the democrat lineup could've won the nomination, but both Yang & Gabbard have been pretty much shoved to the side and they were my choices this time around.

Now we're stuck with Bernie and Biden trying to duke it out for the nomination and I don't like either of them for the part. Bernie is the aging socialist with plenty of his own history still gnawing at him, who recently suffered a heart attack to boot. While Biden's mental faculties are plunging further and further away from what anyone should consider "safe" territory. This recent virtual town hall should be a prime example of just how horrible his entire campaign has been handled.
 
How long have you imbibed? BTW Historically, it was grape.


You like to pigeonhole people. I never figured that out, but it seems to be a thing. I give you that the ugly is overlooked, because Trump is unsightly. However, you cannot reasonably claim the good does not far outweigh the bad, especially for conservatives.

Serious question, what bad has the administration done that is not in any way a matter of style? Name five things.

That question makes absolutely no senes. What I am trying to get at here is everyone who votes for Donald Trump must have more reasons to like him as man, leader and politican first, th en his policies and promises - good and bad. You have shown me absolutely no winningness at all to do everything you must do for any claims Donald Trump was ever a good president to be accepable.
 
I'm writing in for Stinky from the Abbott and Costello show. It is time for an honest stench.
 
That question makes absolutely no senes. What I am trying to get at here is everyone who votes for Donald Trump must have more reasons to like him as man, leader and politican first, th en his policies and promises - good and bad. You have shown me absolutely no winningness at all to do everything you must do for any claims Donald Trump was ever a good president to be accepable.
Everything you have said so far focuses on appearances, what you call the ugly, and not on anything substantial.

So, I ask you, what things has the administration done that are bad, irrespective how they look? The list of good things is lengthy--tax reform, improved border patrol, less intrusive foreign policy, energy independence, trade agreements, regulation reform, prison reform, restocking the federal bench, etc. These are all high profile accomplishments of the Trump administration. What are some of the bad things. Can you name any, any at all?
 
empty head vs punkinhead? Biden clearly has some sort of cognitive disorder. He's hoping that the corona panic will eliminate him having to debate Trump. The more people here from Biden, the less they are liable to vote for him.

And you are a doctor and have seen the patient?

I recall you lambasting Liberals on this board who called Trump's mental fitness in question with out a medical qualification or diagnosis. Why the hypocrisy, partisan?
 
Everything you have said so far focuses on appearances, what you call the ugly, and not on anything substantial.

So, I ask you, what things has the administration done that are bad, irrespective how they look? The list of good things is lengthy--tax reform, improved border patrol, less intrusive foreign policy, energy independence, trade agreements, regulation reform, prison reform, restocking the federal bench, etc. These are all high profile accomplishments of the Trump administration. What are some of the bad things. Can you name any, any at all?

I will not derail a poll thread about Election Day with this argument. However, I can say this much here: If you always think critcially, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about all of the extremely obvious proven facts, you will not see a beautiful picture of Doinald Trump's tenure as the POTUS. Spend a lot of time doing that before pretending he is God.
 
I think you're looking at a national poll. I'm looking at individual state head-to-head polls. As republicans seem so fond of reminding us at every available opportunity, the President isn't elected by a popular vote.

But this is only because Bush in 2000 and Trump in 2016 relied upon the technicality of the Electoral College to win. In the meantime, and throughout Bush's years, they were all about "democracy" in the Middle East. Of course, they quickly lost interest the moment Obama was elected and they started looking for ways to blame the last eight years on the Democrat. But I digress.

Republicans have proven that they feel that they need the Electoral College, politically stacked courts, racial gerrymandering, select poll closures, and voter restrictions to win elections. Of course, this isn't because Republicans no longer have a message and have to cheat and harm democracy. It's because the GOP has decided that it no longer cares to properly represent even their own conservatives. Corporate interests is the only solid conviction within the GOP anymore, and they rely on right-wing propaganda against "the Left" to keep their voters on a leash. So instead of actually prompting themselves with integrity and with a genuine attempt to properly represent Americans, they rely on underhanded tactics to win. Who else, but today's Republicans would ignore (even applaud) a President who used a private lawyer to enlist a foreign government to harm fellow Americans for the win? And these are the people who declare that "the left" is America's problem.
 
Everything you have said so far focuses on appearances, what you call the ugly, and not on anything substantial.

So, I ask you, what things has the administration done that are bad, irrespective how they look? The list of good things is lengthy--tax reform, improved border patrol, less intrusive foreign policy, energy independence, trade agreements, regulation reform, prison reform, restocking the federal bench, etc. These are all high profile accomplishments of the Trump administration. What are some of the bad things. Can you name any, any at all?

The fact that you actually believe that somebody would have a hard time coming up with bad things say's it all:

- Tax Reform: Over 90 of the Fortune 500 paid 0% taxes on their hundreds of billions in revenue in 2018, thanks to Trump's Tax-Cut and Jobs Act of 2017. This coincided with the wealthy receiving permanent cuts, which involve wealthy investors, major stock holders, and CEOs. This accompanied a significant increase in government spending, which encouraged the Treasury to issue more bonds to nations like China, which increased deficit and debt. At least the government has your taxes though.

- Foreign Policy: Abandoning the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) deal opened the door for increasing Chinese influence in the Pacific, shelving the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) for a year allowed Putin time to strengthen his pipeline diplomacy throughout Europe, walking away from the Iran deal gave Iran license to create a nuke tomorrow, brutal economic sanctions have pushed Iran further into China's orbit, North Korea continues its missile program, the Syrian territory was handed over to Iranian and Russian influence, the reform of NAFTA increased the potential for further illegal immigration.

- Trade Agreements: Again, he walked away from TPP which was a billion dollar deal that would have kept China out, in order to make a deal with Japan for millions. The back-on TTIP talks have yet to include an energy package from the U.S., which would counter Putin's push into Western Europe and provide for us an energy market for our exports. Trump's reform of NAFTA, which was much needed, merely put Mexican car manufacturers at risk, which is exactly what NAFTA did to Mexican farms prior to seeing a new wave of out-of-work Mexican farmers crossing the border by the late 1990s. Thus his NAFTA reform is counterproductive to his anti-immigration agenda. Trump's trade war with China is resulting in exactly what everybody predicted, which is a return to what we already had before he had to issue bail-outs (socialism) to American farmers. China's promises to maybe take a hard line against technology theft is more of the same. Trump claims victories, but this is of course only an attempt to fool his cult.

- Regulation reform: The Great Depression and the Great Recession exists because Big Business and banks were unregulated. Glass-Steagall introduced the mechanisms that divided those banks that lend from those banks that played the stock market with rich people's money. Reagan and Clinton's agenda to repeal Glass-Steagall gave the banks license to merge the two again, which created the bubble, which had them begging government for a handout in 2008. Trump's agenda to deregulate everything under the sun is damaging on an economic, defense, and environmental level.

- Prison Reform: You must have seen the Super Bowl commercial where a black woman was pardoned and was portrayed as "Trump's reform of the prison system." The odd thing is that, after running on a "tough on crime" platform in 2016, he backed the 2018 First Step Act of 2019, which reduced sentences and freed criminals, which is why it was opposed by some Republicans in Washington. The First Step Act was introduced by Republican Douglas Collins, and piggy-backed on the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, which was sponsored by Democrat Bobby Scott. Most Republicans opposed the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010 because....Obama....and only a few opposed the First Step Act of 2019 because...Trump. It was a just a small step in a long process that began before Trump and will go on after.

- Restocking the Federal Bench: This appears to be code for politically stacking the federal bench. We now have judges who cater to the law through a political lens, less so the actual law. This is damaging to democracy and I can show you a list of failed democracies throughout the twentieth century where stacking courts was one of the ingredients that led them to autocracy.

These high profile "accomplishments" are only accomplishments to people who don't understand these things. Without right-wing media outlets perverting them into "accomplishments," they would be exactly what everybody else sees to be true.
 
I will not derail a poll thread about Election Day with this argument. However, I can say this much here: If you always think critcially, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about all of the extremely obvious proven facts, you will not see a beautiful picture of Doinald Trump's tenure as the POTUS. Spend a lot of time doing that before pretending he is God.
If you think critically, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about all of the facts, you cannot avoid a good evaluation of Donald Trump's tenure. Only if you are superficial can you arrive at any other conclusion.
 
If you think critically, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about all of the facts, you cannot avoid a good evaluation of Donald Trump's tenure. Only if you are superficial can you arrive at any other conclusion.

A "good evaluation" means looking at everything, not just what you want to know. It means not starting out with a preconceived bias, but just focusing on the facts. Have you done that yet - about everything, both good and bad, that Trump has done, not only at his job, but also as a leader, American citizen, and person? It all goes together. You can't say just because Trump did some things right, nothing he did wrong matters, or that just because he is good at parts of his job, his failures and personal life does not matter.
 
The fact that you actually believe that somebody would have a hard time coming up with bad things say's it all:

- Tax Reform: Over 90 of the Fortune 500 paid 0% taxes on their hundreds of billions in revenue in 2018, thanks to Trump's Tax-Cut and Jobs Act of 2017. This coincided with the wealthy receiving permanent cuts, which involve wealthy investors, major stock holders, and CEOs. This accompanied a significant increase in government spending, which encouraged the Treasury to issue more bonds to nations like China, which increased deficit and debt.
I see you like low fact spin. This as a win.

- Foreign Policy: Abandoning TPP opened the door for increasing Chinese influence in the Pacific, shelving TTIP for a year allowed Putin time to strengthen his pipeline diplomacy throughout Europe, walking away from the Iran deal gave Iran license to create a nuke tomorrow, brutal economic sanctions have pushed Iran further into China's orbit, North Korea continues its missile program, the Syrian territory was handed over to Iranian and Russian influence, the reform of NAFTA increased the potential for further illegal immigration.
Another low fact post, particularly Iran. We have defeated ISIS, improved relations with Israel and Saudi Arabia. I notice no mention of Afghanistan, Africa, NATO. The world is not suddenly copacetic, but the US position in the world is higher. Another win for Trump.

- Trade Agreements: Again, he walked away from TPP which was a billion dollar deal that would have kept China out, in order to make a deal with Japan for millions. The back-on TTIP talks have yet to include an energy package from the U.S., which would counter Putin's push into Western Europe and provide for us an energy market for our exports. Trump's reform of NAFTA, which was much needed, merely put Mexican car manufacturers at risk, which is exactly what NAFTA did to Mexican farms prior to seeing a new wave of out-of-work Mexican farmers crossing the border by the late 1990s. Thus his NAFTA reform is counterproductive to his anti-immigration agenda. Trump's trade war with China is resulting in exactly what everybody predicted, which is a return to what we already had before he had to issue bail-outs (socialism) to American farmers. China's promises to maybe take a hard line against technology theft is more of the same. Trump claims victories.
Trump is right.

- Regulation reform: The Great Depression and the Great Recession exists because Big Business and banks were unregulated. Glass-Steagall introduced the mechanisms that divided those banks that lend from those banks that played the stock market with rich people's money. Reagan and Clinton's agenda to repeal Glass-Steagall gave the banks license to merge the two again, which created the bubble, which had them begging government for a handout in 2008. Trump's agenda to deregulate everything under the sun is damaging on an economic, defense, and environmental level.
From low fact to fact free. You swung and missed on this one. We had Y2K regulations still in effect. Dry run-off gulches were treated as streams. I take you as in agreement on this one.

- Prison Reform: You must have seen the Super Bowl commercial where a black woman was pardoned and was portrayed as "Trump's reform of the prison system." The odd thing is that, after running on a "tough on crime" platform in 2016, he backed the 2018 First Step Act of 2019, which reduced sentences and freed criminals, which is why it was opposed by some Republicans in Washington. The First Step Act was introduced by Republican Douglas Collins, and piggy-backed on the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, which was sponsored by Democrat Bobby Scott. Most Republicans opposed the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010 because....Obama....and only a few opposed the First Step Act of 2019 because...Trump. It was a just a small step in a long process that began before Trump and will go on after.
Now you are in clear agreement.

- Restocking the Federal Bench: This appears to be code for politically stacking the federal bench. We now have judges who cater to the law through a political lens, less so the actual law. This is damaging to democracy and I can show you a list of failed democracies throughout the twentieth century where stacking courts was one of the ingredients that led them to autocracy.
Yep. This is one the Democrats don't like, but it's still an achievement.

These high profile "accomplishments" are only accomplishments to people who don't understand these things. Without right-wing media outlets perverting them into "accomplishments," they would be exactly what everybody else sees to be true.
I give you the not understanding part. You had some bad misses and, in at least one case, agreed with me and claimed otherwise.
 
A "good evaluation" means looking at everything, not just what you want to know. It means not starting out with a preconceived bias, but just focusing on the facts.
Full agreement.

Have you done that yet - about everything, both good and bad, that Trump has done, not only at his job, but also as a leader, American citizen, and person? It all goes together. You can't say just because Trump did some things right, nothing he did wrong matters, or that just because he is good at parts of his job, his failures and personal life does not matter.
Again, you say the right thing, then do the opposite. In this discussion, what Trump is like as a citizen and a person is irrelevant. What he is like as a leader is relevant only through what his people do. The job is the only thing that matters. Can you say you have even tried to evaluate him in that manner?
 
I see you like low fact spin. This as a win.


Another low fact post, particularly Iran. We have defeated ISIS, improved relations with Israel and Saudi Arabia. I notice no mention of Afghanistan, Africa, NATO. The world is not suddenly copacetic, but the US position in the world is higher. Another win for Trump.


Trump is right.


From low fact to fact free. You swung and missed on this one. We had Y2K regulations still in effect. Dry run-off gulches were treated as streams. I take you as in agreement on this one.


Now you are in clear agreement.


Yep. This is one the Democrats don't like, but it's still an achievement.


I give you the not understanding part. You had some bad misses and, in at least one case, agreed with me and claimed otherwise.

Good god, you are hopelessly romantic for the man. FOX News doesn't even have to try deceiving you, does it? Trump is routinely wrong and he actually dares you to take your leash off every time. The fact that you went from blindly supporting Trump's complacency for three months to blindly supporting Trump the moment he flipped and declared a national emergency just doesn't help you discover the mirror, does it? It's sad that you haven't figured out that your support is based on ignoring the man and that your obtuseness is based entirely on helping you fool yourself, not others.
 
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Full agreement.

Again, you say the right thing, then do the opposite. In this discussion, what Trump is like as a citizen and a person is irrelevant. What he is like as a leader is relevant only through what his people do. The job is the only thing that matters. Can you say you have even tried to evaluate him in that manner?

You are continuing to refuse to think critically, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about the extremely obvious proven facts while telling me blatant lies. "Full agreement" means you totally agree everything about what Donald Trump does as the POTUS, a leader, a worker, an American, and a person matters when people decide whether they evaluate him as a candidate either worthy or unworthy of their support. Until you do this, you have no reasons to pretend Donald Trump can never do anything that causes damage to the govenrment and American people.

What I do is learn as much as I can about the candidates who are most likely to win the nomination and choose the candidate I believe is the best among them to lead the United States for the next four years based on experience, ideology, and intangibles. I will wait for your detailed rebuttal until you prove, based on all of the above criteria, Donald Trump has never done anything during his first run and presidency that makes him unworthy of voter support. And you must only use totally unbiased sources to get your information - nothing from convervative television networks, periodicals, websites, or radio shows.
 
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Good god, you are hopelessly romantic for the man. FOX News doesn't even have to try deceiving you, does it? Trump is routinely wrong and he actually dares you to take your leash off every time. The fact that you went from blindly supporting Trump's complacency for three months to blindly supporting Trump the moment he flipped and declared a national emergency just doesn't help you discover the mirror, does it? It's sad that you haven't figured out that your support is based on ignoring the man and that your obtuseness is based entirely on helping you fool yourself, not others.
I don't know. i haven't seen Fox News in years. There are things I don't like about Trump, but most of them are fiscal and you never raised those. He's an eyesore, but he knows how create space for his people to work. You should be one to appreciate a quiet phone.

You are continuing to refuse to think critically, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about the extremely obvious proven facts while telling me blatant lies. "Full agreement" means you totally agree everything about what Donald Trump does as the POTUS, a leader, a worker, an American, and a person matters when people decide whether they evaluate him as a candidate either worthy or unworthy of their support. Until you do this, you have no reasons to pretend Donald Trump can never do anything that causes damage to the govenrment and American people.

What I do is learn as much as I can about the candidates who are most likely to win the nomination and choose the candidate I believe is the best among them to lead the United States for the next four years based on experience, ideology, and intangibles. I will wait for your detailed rebuttal until you prove, based on all of the above criteria, Donald Trump has never done anything during his first run and presidency that makes him unworthy of voter support. And you must only use totally unbiased sources to get your information - nothing from convervative television networks, periodicals, websites, or radio shows.
That would be you.
 
I don't know. i haven't seen Fox News in years. There are things I don't like about Trump, but most of them are fiscal and you never raised those. He's an eyesore, but he knows how create space for his people to work. You should be one to appreciate a quiet phone.

If you don't like his fiscal decisions, why do you think he is good at his job?

I am telling you being good at everything, not just his job (if he was even good at that), is extremely important to consider him a good candidate and person to support. If you refuse to truly believe that fact, all you cared about since the beginning was hating Democrats no matter what, even if the Republican is one of the worst men in America.

What do you mean by a quiet phone?

That would be you.

What about me?
 
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If you don't like his fiscal decisions, why do you think he is good at his job?
He isn't perfect, just better than most.

I am telling you being good at everything, not just his job (if he was even good at that), is extremely important to consider him a good candidate and person to support. If you refuse to truly believe that fact, all you cared about since the beginning was hating Democrats no matter what, even if the Republican is one of the worst men in America. What do you mean by a quiet phone?
That is not what you are saying. You are saying he has to look good and speak well, but it does not matter whether the can do the job.

What about me?
This
You are continuing to refuse to think critically, objectively, intelligently, rationally, and logically about the extremely obvious proven facts
I bolded it in the previous post.
 
Now that we know whose going to win both nominations. Time to ask the question. I am going to do this monthly and see where everybody stands. Here are your choices:

Donald J. Trump
Joe R. Biden
Libertarian Candidate (Jacob Hornberger in the lead, but Vermin Supreme is behind him)
Green Party Candidate (Howie Hawkins in the lead, but Dario Hunter is behind him)
Write-In
Undecided

Voted Johnson last election but Trump's policies has been pretty good, imo. His personal ethics and conduct has been pretty atrocious but I care more about policy. Also, there was too much anti-gun pushing coming from Dems during this admin and that's one of my no-fail issues.
 
Voted Johnson last election but Trump's policies has been pretty good, imo. His personal ethics and conduct has been pretty atrocious but I care more about policy. Also, there was too much anti-gun pushing coming from Dems during this admin and that's one of my no-fail issues.

I have one no-fail issue. Trump is a ****ing moron.
 
Good god, you are hopelessly romantic for the man. FOX News doesn't even have to try deceiving you, does it? Trump is routinely wrong and he actually dares you to take your leash off every time. The fact that you went from blindly supporting Trump's complacency for three months to blindly supporting Trump the moment he flipped and declared a national emergency just doesn't help you discover the mirror, does it? It's sad that you haven't figured out that your support is based on ignoring the man and that your obtuseness is based entirely on helping you fool yourself, not others.

I am a very old vet of bulletin boards. I go back to when it was Clinton on the throne and going to be impeached. And to date, never have I seen a devout Democrat change his or her mind. Not a thing causes them to change their minds.

Well, I was one of the Democrats for a very long time. I was the same way. What flipped me was an awesome book.

William E. Simon wrote an earthshaking book called A Time for Truth. I did a lot more research but when I saw the light , I walked away from Democrats by 1980 and shall never re turn.

 
He isn't perfect, just better than most.

Donald Trump is not better than most if he is not both great at his job and great as a man. You still have not proven anything except a complete refusal to accept the truth.
 
It is still way too ealry to count Bernie Sanders out of it. Joe Biden needs almost 2,000 delegates to clinch the nomination on the first vote. The last Democratic presidential primary is in June (Louisiana). People are raising white flags because they assume Sanders is unable to get his early momentum back. Well, guess what? There are more primary elections and caucuses coming up in the next three months. Still lots of time mathematically for Sanders to make a comeback. Biden obviously has a much higher chance of winning, but we all know, "It's not over until it's over." I voted for Biden in the poll knowing there is a chnace, no matter how small, he will not win the nomination.

Of course I did vote for Joe Biden last week more because of electibilitu than his ideology because I am much farther left than he is, just like most if not all of the Michigan Democrats.

Biden has increased his delegate lead to 300 tonight without Arizona and with still 55 more delegates to be awarded in Illinois and Florida. Counting Arizona which goes off later tonight there are 1800 delegates left for Sanders to make up those 300 delegates. With the proportional system the Democrats use, I don't see how that can happen without Sanders winning a bunch of states by 20-30 points. There just isn't that many big states left.

Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Georgia maybe. But in all four Biden has the lead. That could change. But using the proportional system winning the remaining states by an average of 10 points won't be enough to overcome the 300 point lead.
 
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