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[digitusmedius]

I say you're being verbose to avoid having to put substance into what you said. Trying to argue that one can somehow separate nationalism from nationalists and actually be taken serious is pretty funny. Nationalism is what nationalists adhere to. Nationalists are people who adhere to nationalist ideas based on their particular beliefs of what a national values. What those videos on nationalism are can be organize to the point where they can either share some sympathy with Nazi Germany or they absolutely hate everything it stands for. Again, explain what it is I am conflating. You should learn to use these words.





Good grief, the above is pretty idiotic. I bet you thought that sounded really intelligent. I call you out for stating that if you're a nationalist you're openly identifying as a sympathizer with Nazi ideology, and your response is a convoluted post where you try and use whatever terms it was you learned in this week's class. I am guessing that your argument essentially can be reduced to: the "general definition of nationalism" made up mostly by you, trumps the historically used one which has little to do with Nazi sympathies and predates Nazi beliefs by a over 400 years. Seriously, you had one shot. You really missed out.

We both know why you're being so argumentative (hope that's not "too big" a word for you) and why you keep putting up utter BS (nationalism emerged 400-500 years ago) and we both know it's got nothing to do with nationalism or nationalists. You've still got that "thing" stuck in your craw and this is how you're still trying to work it out. Trouble is, when you act out absurdly and petulantly like this it actually confirms the truth of my first assessment of you.

 

[Risky Thicket]

White Nationalist PAC Blankets Iowa With Robocalls For Trump

Follow the link in ¶7 to get to the "white nationalist" (read: neo-nazi) site. In one of those ironies of far right wing religious extremism, they get a Filipino god botherer to deliver the message. I imagine this guy thinks he's been allowed into the "white nationalist" community because he's co-opted himself so much. What a surprise is awaiting him if these neo-nazis ever do get power.

Some low-lights from the neo-nazi leadership:



And from the Nationalist site, here's the religious freak, Tan, again:



And for those who try to apply Godwin's Law on my characterization of these scumbags as neo-nazis, they need to be reminded of the provenance of the word "nazi." It's a contraction of the party created by Hitler, et al: "National Socialist." Since then any individual or party incorporating any of the ideals of that original party has used the term "nationalist" to indicate that affinity. Calling oneself a "nationalist" is openly identifying oneself as sympathetic to the nazi ideology, particularly white supremacy in countries where whites are either the majority or hold power by force over a non-white majority (e.g., the "National Party" which created the apartheid regime of South Africa, and referred to themselves as "nationalists," too).

Lee Atwater lives. It wouldn't surprise me if big GOP money was behind it all.

 

[Hatuey]

We both know why you're being so argumentative (hope that's not "too big" a word for you) and why you keep putting up utter BS (nationalism emerged 400-500 years ago) and we both know it's got nothing to do with nationalism or nationalists. You've still got that "thing" stuck in your craw and this is how you're still trying to work it out. Trouble is, when you act out absurdly and petulantly like this it actually confirms the truth of my first assessment of you.

So... 400-500 years of nationalism... you can't seem to fit them into your claim about what being a nationalist means in regards to Nazi ideology? I'm not surprised.

 

[Thrilla]

So... 400-500 years of nationalism... you can't seem to fit them into your claim about what being a nationalist means in regards to Nazi ideology? I'm not surprised.

you can lead a horse to water....

 

[Hatuey]

you can lead a horse to water....

Yep. It's pretty scary. I mean, I know tons of modern black nationalists who are more pro-US than some of the "very conservative" posters here. His statement makes the silly case that they too sympathize with nazi ideology. He probably has some intellectually lazy way of trying to explain why they're not racist, but the whites who endorse the same ideas are. I mean, in the end, we all know what he really meant to say. If you're white and a nationalist, you're a Nazi sympathizer. Why you decide to call yourself a nationalist is irrelevant as long as you're white.

 

[Thrilla]

Yep. It's pretty scary. I mean, I know tons of modern black nationalists who are more pro-US than some of the "very conservative" posters here. His statement makes the silly case that they too sympathize with nazi ideology. He probably has some intellectually lazy way of trying to explain why they're not racist, but the whites who endorse the same ideas are. I mean, in the end, we all know what he really meant to say. If you're white and a nationalist, you're a Nazi sympathizer. Why you decide to call yourself a nationalist is irrelevant as long as you're white.

honestly, the larger issue of willful ignorance is what bugs me most( his Nazi shtick is transparent and tedious)..... you've literally given him a starting point to be educated on the matter ( nationalism is an interesting and storied matter, at that)... and he flat out says " nope, i'll be having none of that".

that said, I'm a civic nationalist...and i'm white..... despite me being staunchly opposed to other forms of nationalism , he'll still believe i'm a Nazi sympathizer.

 

[Hatuey]

honestly, the larger issue of willful ignorance is what bugs me most( his Nazi shtick is transparent and tedious)..... you've literally given him a starting point to be educated on the matter ( nationalism is an interesting and storied matter, at that)... and he flat out says " nope, i'll be having none of that".

that said, I'm a civic nationalist...and i'm white..... despite me being staunchly opposed to other forms of nationalism , he'll still believe i'm a Nazi sympathizer.

I've spoken with you enough to know you're not. We have tons of nationalists who loathe everything nazism stands for. That said digitusmedius is the same poster who called me a right winger a few months ago. He's not good at defining what people are based on their political positions.

 

[digitusmedius]

So... 400-500 years of nationalism... you can't seem to fit them into your claim about what being a nationalist means in regards to Nazi ideology? I'm not surprised.

Now you're just making a bigger fool of yourself. Please continue.

 

[Hatuey]

Now you're just making a bigger fool of yourself. Please continue.

See what I mean, guys? Digitus argues that being a nationalist means a person has nazi sympathies, he's asked to elaborate on this and fit 400-500 years years of nationalism into your statement. Anyways, digit, A nationalist on this forum has come forward to addrss your statements and refute your claim. The best you have offered is meaningless verbosity and irrelevancy. We are all waiting for you to give us your intellectually lazy explanation.

 

[digitusmedius]

See what I mean, guys? Digitus argues that being a nationalist means a person has nazi sympathies, he's asked to elaborate on this and fit 400-500 years years of nationalism into your statement. Anyways, digit, A nationalist on this forum has come forward to addrss your statements and refute your claim. The best you have offered is meaningless verbosity and irrelevancy. We are all waiting for you to give us your intellectually lazy explanation.

What continues to amaze me is how you can claim to be so liberal and then lay cover for white supremacists. My first take on your fakery was spot on, hatey.

 

[digitusmedius]

What continues to amaze me is how you can claim to be such a good liberal and then while you lay cover for white supremacists. My first take on your fakery was spot on, hatey.

Ooops, sorry..."hatuey."

 

[Hatuey]

What continues to amaze me is how you can claim to be so liberal and then try to cover for white supremacists. My first take on your fakery was spot on, hatey.

Lol, you're looking pretty silly when you make statements and you refuse to substantiate them with anything beyond intellectual laziness. I think you should grab your statement, admit it allows for silly accusations to be made, and move on. It may save you some embarrassment.

 

[Hatuey]

What continues to amaze me is how you can claim to be so liberal and then lay cover for white supremacists. My first take on your fakery was spot on, hatey.

Anywho, I just remembered this. What a difference, 2 months make:

I have no doubt that Hatuey is not a right winger. Insisting that he is does not reflect well on your judgement

I think you may have missed a lot of the background on this but I have revisited this with Hatuey and maybe it's resolving. I could have been too hasty and there's what I think a credible reason for that but I'm not going to waste much more time trying to convince anyone.

All of this emotion from you because I called out other broad brush, or plainly false statements made by you.

 

[digitusmedius]

Yep. It's pretty scary. I mean, I know tons of modern black nationalists who are more pro-US than some of the "very conservative" posters here. His statement makes the silly case that they too sympathize with nazi ideology. He probably has some intellectually lazy way of trying to explain why they're not racist, but the whites who endorse the same ideas are. I mean, in the end, we all know what he really meant to say. If you're white and a nationalist, you're a Nazi sympathizer. Why you decide to call yourself a nationalist is irrelevant as long as you're white.

I guess the NBPP would fit your definition of a "black nationalist" organization as would the Nation of Islam, right? Both of those are considered a hate groups by the SPLC just as many of their white nationalist counterparts. Both share neo-nazi rhetoric so they have that in common. I never claimed it this brand nationalism was solely a white supremacist phenomenon. Gawd but you (and your new buddy) are flailing. I do appreciate how much trouble you've gone to be ridiculous, though.

 

[digitusmedius]

Anywho, I just remembered this. What a difference, 2 months make:





All of this emotion from you because I called out other broad brush, or plainly false statements made by you.

I certainly do regret apologizing to you after the tantrum you threw and people I respect came to your defense. Thank you for being so ungracious and never accepting that apology because that makes it so easy to retract. It seems I pegged you correctly right from the start. Others can make up their own minds but you're exactly the fraud I suspected. As I said above, you've never gotten over that unmasking and it's what driving this inane and failed attempt of yours defend white supremacists/neo-nazis in your frenzy to try to get even. All you've done is expose your own fakery---again and more clearly than ever.

 

[Hatuey]

I certainly do regret apologizing to you after the tantrum you threw and people I respect came to your defense. Thank you for being so ungracious and never accepting that apology because that makes it so easy to retract. It seems I pegged you correctly right from the start. Others can make up their own minds but you're exactly the fraud I suspected. As I said above, you've never gotten over that unmasking and it's what driving this inane and failed attempt of yours defend white supremacists/neo-nazis in your frenzy to try to get even. All you've done is expose your own fakery---again and more clearly than ever.

I threw a tantrum... where I called out your false statement... and your response was to try to make the conversation about my lean instead of your ridiculous statement? Hm. Weird way of seeing things. Here we go again, you can't justify your position, so your response is to talk about my lean again. I am disappointed. Anyways, can you fit 400-500 years of nationalism into your suggestion that being a nationalist meant you had nazi sympathies? How do black nationalists fit into that statement? Do they have nazi sympathies too?

 

[Hatuey]

I guess the NBPP would fit your definition of a "black nationalist" organization

The NBPP are nationalists, but they aren't American nationalists in any sense of the two words. Their national identity is not American. It is somewhat the product of American nationalists like Washington and every president up to Lincoln, however they're not American nationalists themselves. That doesn't mean that black American nationalists don't exist. There are various black motorcycle clubs that are both fiercely patriotic and at the same time black without being 'black nationalists'. US ghettoes are more likely than not filled with nationalist sentiment as well from black communities. They are by any definition "nationalists" who believe in some form of "nationalism". Do they have nazi sympathies? Obviously not. Your statement makes it really easy to claim they do. That's stupid. Is this really going over your head?

 

[digitusmedius]

The NBPP are nationalists, but they aren't American nationalists in any sense of the two words. Their national identity is not American. It is somewhat the product of American nationalists like Washington and every president up to Lincoln, however they're not American nationalists themselves. That doesn't mean that black American nationalists don't exist. There are various black motorcycle clubs that are both fiercely patriotic and at the same time black without being 'black nationalists'. US ghettoes are more likely than not filled with nationalist sentiment as well from black communities. They are by any definition "nationalists" who believe in some form of "nationalism". Do they have nazi sympathies? Obviously not. Your statement makes it really easy to claim they do. That's stupid. Is this really going over your head?

I can almost hear Washington laughing from the grave at your characterizing him as a "nationalist." As a fun exercise see if you can find the words "nationalist" or "nationalism" in any of our early documents or even the private letters of the founders. After all, since you claim nationalism goes back 500 years, they would have been very familiar with the term, right? I eagerly await your attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you created for yourself.

As for claiming that blacks involved in "black nationalist" movements in the US are not Americans, I guess we'd have to attribute that opinion to your now-obvious white nationalist leanings. Every time you comment it gives me more evidence supporting my very first impression of you. And you know what I'm talking about.

As for some (by no means all) black nationalist political movements such as the NOI and the NBPP, they are vehemently anti-semitic aas well as being "black supremacist" and sound every bit like white neo-nazis in that regard. You apparently don't get around much so need to manufacture and throw around a lot of horse **** hoping it will stick.

 

[Hatuey]

I can almost hear Washington laughing from the grave at your characterizing him as a "nationalist."

Dude founded an entirely new country based on a clearly lined out perception that the difference between his forefathers and himself was too great. His signature is on the the damn constitution outlining the limits of a new state. Are you serious?

 

[digitusmedius]

Dude founded an entirely new country based on a clearly lined out perception that the difference between his forefathers and himself was too great. His signature is on the the damn constitution outlining the limits of a new state. Are you serious?

You can't show me even a sliver of evidence that the word "nationalism" was in use in the late 18th century in this country. And yet you claim it was a concept dating back 500 years. Again I have to ask why you've gone to so much trouble and embarrassment to defend white nationalist extremists in this country today. Is that because you're so "liberal" you won't label people what they are: white supremacist neo-nazis; for fear of offending them?

 

[Hatuey]

You can't show me even a sliver of evidence that the word "nationalism" was in use in the late 18th century in this country.

The word "racism" didn't exist in the 15th century, that doesn't mean Christopher wasn't a racist. A word being created to explain a particular political belief does not mean people with those beliefs did not exist before. If anything, political labels exist largely as a result of people exploring old ideas and giving them new names. That said, it is only logical that a person who founded a country and then lead it be called its first nationalist president. He created an entirely new nation for heaven's sake.

 

[digitusmedius]

Dude founded an entirely new country based on a clearly lined out perception that the difference between his forefathers and himself was too great. His signature is on the the damn constitution outlining the limits of a new state. Are you serious?

And you call Washington a "dude." I think I may have greatly overestimated your level of maturity and it was already minimal.

 

[digitusmedius]

The word "racism" didn't exist in the 15th century, that doesn't mean Christopher wasn't a racist. A word being created to explain a particular political belief does not mean people with those beliefs did not exist before. If anything, political labels exist largely as a result of people exploring old ideas and giving them new names. That said, it is only logical that a person who founded a country be called its first nationalist president. He created an entirely new nation for heaven's sake.

You might have been able to make that case if you had presented even a single bit of evidence for it at the beginning of your ridiculous claim but since you couldn't you decided to just keep trying to bluff and bluster it out. Really shameful. I now feel more pity than contempt for you, "dude."

 

[Hatuey]

And you call Washington a "dude." I think I may have greatly overestimated your level of maturity and it was already minimal.

Lol, why should I respect him? It's not like he fought for a new nation's right to exist... did he? Oh, he did. That doesn't sound like something a nationalist would do though. It's a little too late to play the patriotic and respectful dove, digit. :lol:

 

[digitusmedius]

Lol, why should I respect him? It's not like he fought for a new nation's right to exist... did he? Oh, he did. That doesn't sound like something a nationalist would do though. It's a little too late to play the patriotic and respectful dove, digit. :lol:

Now you've gone from just plain ridiculous to spectacular incoherence. If you had a shred of dignity you'd quietly disappear so I'm sure you'll continue to embarrass yourself. Please continue.