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White James Bond to be replaced by a black James Bond



blade and underworld are great! and they are new themes on the old story, which is great. would i want Blade to be white in a sequel? no of course not because the story has been ESTABLISHED with Blade as a bad ass Black vampire killer

its not the point of squelching new themes, it is the point that once they are established and a hit, WHY change them for this purpose except to throw identity politics in your face?

that becomes annoying.
 
tosca1 said:
Lol. Wasn't Bond written by its author to be a white man?

This discussion inspires a question - but - it needs a separate thread for it. Will post it when I get the time.
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In the with Craig or Brosnon Bond movies (except one where they go to Bonds ancestral home) where any lines would need to be rewritten to support Idris Elba playing Bond?
 
Again, I feel people are missing a huge point...

There is no possible way that Connery, Moore, Lasenby, Dalton, Brosnan and Craig all played the same person.

Bond and the 007 codename are exactly that...codenames. The idea that one person did everything in the Bond world is ludicrous. The sheer number of years one person would have had to be active defies logic. Its far more plausible and likely that each of them played someone who carried thar designation just like one man isnt POTUS. The designation is transferable.

As that is the more likely situation, Elba playing Bond would have no effect on the Bond universe.

What should make people madder is that Val Kilmer was somehow cast as Batman, as Bruce Wayne was an actal person with particular characteristics.
 
i finally had to tell my wife about this thread about a fictitious story this morning (although i've only read a few posts).


hey, i was bored and we got a few laughs.
 

I dunno. Maybe for the same reason Pretty Yende would play Musette in Puccini's La bohème. For decades it hasn't been unusual to have black opera singers sing Mozart, so maybe that's why I'm more receptive to the idea of having them act as "white" characters in the movies. Anyway, did you see the 2006 version of Casino Royale in which "M," the head of MI6, was played by a woman? Or any of the other Bond movies where Dame Judi Dench reprised the role? Did you enjoy it (them)? Or did the change tank it (them), in your opinion? I mean, I get your point. Some of this PC crap is annoying if that's the reason the change is done, but then if someone has the rights to the character in that medium they pretty much own it. I don't think anyone funding a movie is out to lose money, so the libertarian in me says if they want to sell a black James Bond then let them. If people, like me, are entertained by it, then I don't have a problem with it. No one is forcing you or anyone else to go see it. If someone does have an issue then they can create their own character and keep the rights to it even after their death through proper estate planning.
 
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Lord Tammerlain said:
In the with Craig or Brosnon Bond movies (except one where they go to Bonds ancestral home) where any lines would need to be rewritten to support Idris Elba playing Bond?
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I like Idris Elba. He obviously got the looks and the talent. I thought he'd reach the height of Denzel!
Too bad - he made a couple of movies that I think had hurt his career (one with Beyonce, and the other one I can't even remember the title).


Sure, the producer of James Bond can do what she wants. She can re-write it to support Elba playing the role. However, even if the movie is called
"James Bond" - it wouldn't really be the James Bond. It'll be just another spy movie whose main character happens to be called, "James Bond."


Having a black James Bond will smack of politics.
It wouldn't be about the movie anymore. It'll be about political correctness.
Look at some of the actors who dabbled into politics - like, Jennifer Lawrence, Matt Damon, George Clooney - they're not as hot as they used to be.
Especially Lawrence, who was on her way up! She was on Forbes list of highest paid star in 2015 and 2016. Her movies started flopping in 2017! Go figure.
Now....she's going with Netflix! Amy Schumer is reduced to advertising for tampons!
If a celebrity will get into politics - he's has got to be really, really well-liked that people he disagree with, will hold their noses and still watch his movies.

The country is BITTERLY divided. A celebrity can't afford to antagonize half of the population.

I don't know exactly where Idris Elba is in his career right now............but I don't think playing the James Bond character will be of help to him.
 
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Just by going on the actors skill and presence on the screen,

Elba would be a better Bond than Tom Hardy, I really like Tom Hardy, he is a great actor, but he is not tall enough be a good Bond, I never really liked Craig in the role because he is too short to be Bond in my opinion.

Elba would have similar presence as Sean Connery did when playing Bond. But at 48 he would have the role for perhaps 1 or 2 movies at most
 

You make some good points here (especially about Amy Schumer relegated to doing tampon commercials ).

Here is Ian Fleming's original model for "M":



M (James Bond) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I remember the first time I saw Judi Dench playing "M" (Goldeneye in 1995). I was like "what the frack? A WOMAN? PLAYING 'M'? Here go the PC police again." No kidding. They existed back then, too. I mean, I don't have a problem redefining a character, unless it's done solely as a means to make a political statement or as form of propaganda, which I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that that was the case. Artistic license is one thing, but I don't like being manipulated.

Anyway, I watched it, and I enjoyed it. (And I think I wore out my son's Nintendo 64 playing the video game version.) She played the character in eight "Bond spy movies." She doesn't seem to have hurt the franchise at the box office, because she starred in every one of the highest grossing Bond movies made, including Skyfall, which grossed $1.1 billion worldwide. Her total Bond box office: more than $4.5 billion (https://www.forbes.com/sites/travis...lms-ranked-at-the-box-office/?sh=57e8a15b1804). That's a lot of scratch.
 
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Maybe.....they should show it on Netflix. His movie "The Take" has bombed, but is the most watched movie on Netflix.


An Idris Elba Flop Has Ironically Become Netflix’s Most-Watched Movie

If audiences were more willing to spend money on the movies and TV shows they claim to want, we wouldn’t need to gender or race-swap James Bond or Superman.
www.forbes.com
 
I like the idea of a black James Bond because it supports the theory that James Bond is just a code name or cover identity that's been filled by many different people over the years. Kind of like Dread Pirate Roberts.
 


if you are entertained by it, no worries then. Enjoy it if they do it that way.... just don't go crying racism if it flops.

its not like i really care that much but I know who James Bond is to me, just like I know who Blade is , to me. I am really talking about overboard PC crap, not a movie in particular.
 

I won't. I don't know whether a black opera singer performing the role of Carmen does better or worse box office than a white one, but it doesn't seem to have made much difference to audiences. Supposedly Judi Dench was brought into the Bond franchise to "update" it and recognize that a woman, Stella Remington, had been placed in charge of MI5 in 1993. A female "M" doesn't seem to have made much difference to audiences either. Dench worked more than fine in seven movies (eight if you count Spectre). Then she died in Skyfall, with Ralph Fiennes taking back the role for the guys. Whereas I was pretty pissed off when they cast her into the role, I was also pissed off years later when they killed her off , although Fiennes is a fantastic actor. He sent chills down my spine as the sadistic Amon Goeth in Schindler's List. He makes a good "M," too, and certainly more resembles Fleming's original model for the character.

Anyway, I respect your opinion, just as I respect that of the Blade screenwriter David Goyer when he pushed back against the studio's suggestion that Blade be white. Personally, I wish we lived in Justice Harlan's colorblind society. If we're ever going to get to a point where people aren't judged by race, then we should probably stop judging people by race. But then I'm also a realist. Race is one part of characterization and it has been for centuries, perhaps because it can affect the experience of a character. If Bond in your mind grew up in the Scottish Highlands at Skyfall, then a black Bond would probably undermine that vision. Where he grew up also defines who that character is to an audience, and let's face it: there aren't many black Scottish highlanders. But that is a personal, subjective thing. Maybe a Scottish Bond matters to some people, while others figure he could have been Born in England from parents who immigrated from Kenya.
 
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molten_dragon said:
I like the idea of a black James Bond because it supports the theory that James Bond is just a code name or cover identity that's been filled by many different people over the years. Kind of like Dread Pirate Roberts.
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There's Tony Stark, the wealthy industrialist, and James Rhodes, the brother from South Philly, and then there's Ironman.
 
I just don't see Regé-Jean Page as being a decent James Bond, nowhere near what Idris Elba would bring to the party.
 
Thazgor said:
Why is it always ok to replace a white with a black but not the other way around?

Same blacks are offended white do voices on black cartoons
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My hope is one day that the color of a person’s skin or nationality is not indicated in any way. Then we will all be truly be equal. Until then WHITE is still supreme to many.
 
I actually think it won't happen. Wait till the contract is signed. In the end what sells is staying fairly true to the character. Personally I like Craig and will be sad to see his run over but he's getting on. I think if the scripting had been better on Spectre and Solace they would have been decent. I could see Kevin Mckidd doing it Craig style but he'd be too old after a film or two as well.

Ever notice how Bond's enemies always have a deformity or disfigurement? I think He needs to stop beating up on the disabled.
 
Thazgor said:
Why is it always ok to replace a white with a black but not the other way around?

Same blacks are offended white do voices on black cartoons
Click to expand...

Well, the first black actor to play a James Bond villain says JB must be WHITE.

First black Bond villain reveals his surprising thoughts on those Idris Elba rumours

'Political correctness be damned' says Dr Kananga from 1973's Live and Let Die
www.independent.co.uk

Kotto, 75, added that he finds it “ridiculous” when people say all roles should be open to black actors. “If I say I want to play JFK, I should be laughed out of the room,” he said.

Sure, you can do a black James Bond, but it wasn't Ian Fleming's vision, (does anyone really believe his JB was supposed to be anything but an articulate, suave, white Brit? ) and there is a thing called artistic integrity of the creator of the franchise. I mean, if the only reason they are doing it is because of some 'egalitarian' or 'politically correct' principle, that's nuts. This isn't sociology, this is art. Art isn't about anything other than the vision of creator of the artist work.
 


I disagree. So does the first black actor to play a villian in a JB film.

First black Bond villain reveals his surprising thoughts on those Idris Elba rumours

'Political correctness be damned' says Dr Kananga from 1973's Live and Let Die
www.independent.co.uk
Kotto, 75, added that he finds it “ridiculous” when people say all roles should be open to black actors. “If I say I want to play JFK, I should be laughed out of the room,” he said.

This is art, not sociology, and art is always about the vision of the creator of the art, or franchise. Does anyone actually believe that Ian Fleming's 'Bond' was supposed to be anyone other than a white, suave, Brit? I mean' C'mon. Racism, that's not what racism means. I mean, would you call it racist to have "Shaft' played by a white guy? how about a white Othello? Stick to the artistic vision, and doing that has NOTHING to do with racism. What's next? A black Sherlock Holmes, Phillip Marlow? Get outta here with that nonsense.


Where you could have a man of color is for Jesus Christ, who most certainly was not Euro/caucasian.
 

Ossie Davis played JFK in the movie "Bubba Ho-Tep"
 
Movie makers will do whatever they want in try and make a dollar. I have no problems with Bond being played by a black actor.

Heck they let Tom Cruise play Jack Reacher from the Lee Child books. The Reacher character was over 6 foot and 200 lbs. It was disappointing to see Cruise in that role. Now Mission Impossible movies were good roles for Cruise.
 

As with most identity politics, taking a classic loved, character, switching genders or race to appease the narrative. Instead of creating a new character in the same multi verse. Many good spin off series have been done this way. At least, Bond needs to be a male. O.k. If its a Black male would work.

Bond isn't a code name. M & Q would be. This is seen throughout the Bond movies where several people play Bond. At the death of his wife is lamented in various movies being the same person.
 

You know all of these characters are make believe and they can do whatever they want with their toys.... right?

If it doesn’t work out they just retcon it

This isn’t about “identity politics” this is about money.

The entire entertainment industry is controlled by a sentient spreadsheet where the output must be more than the input or it gets sad.

That is the motivating factor behind all of this.
 

Its really in contrast to one of the producers of the Bond movies, Barbara Broccoli. That Bond will likely still be male.

https://www.businessinsider.com/jam...tinue to be played by,“He’s a male character,"%20she%20told%20The%20Guardian.
 
Thazgor said:
Why is it always ok to replace a white with a black but not the other way around?

Same blacks are offended white do voices on black cartoons
Click to expand...
It seems to me that there are black secret agents. I don't see a problem. I liked most of the different 007's over the years. I think it is overdue.
 
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