White House sharply lowers expectations for Trump-Putin summit.

[multivita-man]

.....WH today significantly lowered expectations for a peace deal to end the Russian (started) war with Ukraine.

Zelensky not coming to Alaska after all.

The alleged purpose of Trump's meeting with Putin is so Trump "can better understand what he can do to end the war."

Putin: "Grovel. No more. No lower, Donald. And with more feeling."

Putin: 1) We take the Donbas and Crimea forever - it is Russia now; 2) Zelensky must go; 3) Ukraine must be disarmed; 4) Ukraine will never join NATO.

That's for starters.

The problem is, Trump is hearing from people close to him that this will be considered a strategic defeat for the United States, which is arguably true. There's no reversing this outcome, but he probably doesn't want to be responsible for losing a war, even if it's a proxy war. The American public will sympathize with Ukraine because from our standpoint, Russia is an invader and we spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the defense of a European country.

Just saw today that Trump is supposedly going to present some "red lines", but Putin will not budge. Trump will likely come out of this looking weak, confused, unable to strike a meaningful deal, incompetent, impotent.

 

[anatta]

Much more likely he promises to lift sanctions and reward Putin

not at all. Sanctions havent done much damage to Russia's war economy. Trump/Putin is being realistic that Ukraine can't be in NATO
(it would be like Mexico being part of the old USSR -intolerable). what we need to see is if Putin goes along with land for peace - but he doesn't get to keep all the oblasts he's in ( his demand) in fact has to give back some conquered land.

And while Ukraine would not be in NATO -NATO can still beef up it's forward bases in eastern Europe, perhaps deploy a rapid response force backed up by intermediate (tactical) nukes. and while no Article 5 from NATO there can still be a very hardened border between Russia and Ukraine

This is ll doable. But Z has to compromise as well with some land in return to a settlement, and not just say no because the Constitution calls for a referendum ( if they can't hold an election, how can Ukr hold a referendum?

I could go on and on, but the point is if if a ceasefire can be done as a path to negotiations, then a deal can be done.
It's not EZ, but doable providing Z and Putin both allow themselves to stop warring.

This is just the first US/Russian meeting, and there are many more to come if this one comes off. The alternative is endless war
That has to stop. "Inshallah"

 

[Deuce]

Lowered?

What was the expectation before?

"I'll have the war stopped in a day?"

 

[Deuce]

not at all. Sanctions havent done much damage to Russia's war economy. Trump/Putin is being realistic that Ukraine can't be in NATO
(it would be like Mexico being part of the old USSR -intolerable). what we need to see is if Putin goes along with land for peace - but he doesn't get to keep all the oblasts he's in ( hi demand) in fact has to gie back some conquered land.

And whil Ukraine is not in NATO -NATO can still beef up it's forward bases in eastern Europe, perhaps deploy a rapid response force backed up by intermediate (tactical) nukes. and while no Article 5 from NATO there can still be a very hardened border between Russia and Ukraine

This is ll doable. But Z has to compromise as well with some land in return to a settlement, and not just say no because the Constitution cals for a referendum ( if they can't hold an election, how can Ukr hold a referendum?

I could go on and on, but the point is if if a ceasefire can be done as a path to negotiations, then a deal can be done.
It's not EZ, but doable providig Z and Putin both allow themselves to stop warring.

This is just the first US/Russian meeting, and there are many more o come if this one comes off. The alternative is endless war

I think if Israel wants peace it should give Hamas some land. You have to compromise.

 

[anatta]

I think if Israel wants peace it should give Hamas some land. You have to compromise.

each situation is different, but yes there has to be compromise. I don't know how Hamas and Israel can coexist.
The only way Russia and Ukr can compromise is "security guarantees" for Ukr. can Israel get that with Hamas?

 

[Mycroft]

"I'll have the war stopped in a day?"

???

We are talking about this Trump/Putin summit.

Try to focus, dude.

 

[Deuce]

???

We are talking about this Trump/Putin summit.

Try to focus, dude.

And the summit is about stopping the war, isn't it?

 

[Deuce]

each situation is different, but yes there has to be compromise. I don't know how Hamas and Israel can coexist.
The only way Russia and Ukr can compromise is "security guarantees" for Ukr.

Guarantees that Trump threw out the window, yes.

can Israel get that with Hamas?

Israel already has a security guarantee.

 

[Rexedgar]

White House lower expectations every day.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[Greenbeard]

If we’re still in possession of Alaska on Saturday, Trump will have exceeded expectations.

Well, shit.

 

[Rumblefish]

Well, shit.

Remember when Hillary was pilloried for approving the sale of Uranium One to Russians?

Yeah.......

 

[CaughtInThe]

If you're not really into words (or math or science or hard stuff for that matter) and you understand pictures way more than words (about complex issues) then this post is for you.

It explains it all using art...

 

[uptower]

 

[Metric Mouse]

Unfortunately for Ukraine, it is in the interest of the US and most of Europe that Russia keep fighting, and keep losing, this war. The longer Russia grinds itself down and ruins its population and economy, the better it is for western powers.

These talks keep Russia in the fight, always losing but never stopping.