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White House border czar suggests ICE can detain people based on ‘physical appearance’

CimpleMan said:
So that justifies what is happening now here in SoCal and other locations in US?
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No.

Two wrongs do not make a right, but his viewpoint is silly in my opinion.
 
Lord of Planar said:
He mentioned more than just skin color. Did you play the video, or just fall for the narrative?
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You have completely fooled me, just as he did. He of course didn't mean "skin color."
 
CimpleMan said:
So that justifies what is happening now here in SoCal and other locations in US?
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CimpleMan, you are at a farm. It turns out that half the people working there are here illegally. The other half are native workers and legal immigrants.

When that place is raided, you will likely be detained and briefly questioned.

That is what is happening. There's nothing wrong with that.
 
Lord of Planar said:
So a question for you. Are you a US citizen or legal resident?
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US citizen by birth.

Lord of Planar said:
My girlfriend is now afraid to travel. She is 100% legal with passport, permanent resident green card, and social security number. The Cuban fear in Florida is high, and she is afraid to travel back here to Portland since the last trip she made from my place here in Portland to Florida-Cuba-Florida. Even though the Trump administration action have caused this, I do not see it being a problem for her, except she is now afraid. I think she should have no problem traveling to Portland with her passport and green card.
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I hear this a lot from all sorts of members in my community, who have a mixed bag of citizenship and residency statuses. For myself and other citizens I've spoken to it's more about the potential hassle of being pulled aside for device checks and that kind of nonsense. I have some international travel to Asia and Latin America the company I work for is planning for later this year and I've already expressed my concerns. There are two sides to this from my perspective: the potential hassle simply because I am a Latino and may be suspect based on the criteria Homan stated, and the possibility I get hassled even further by DHS if there's some issue and I get hauled away. The latter is highly unlikely, but we are in unpredictable times where what one assumed would work fine is no longer a safe assumption.

Throughout all of this I have had to manage my mother's fears, and she is an elderly woman who is now afraid if she goes to a local store, she might have an encounter with ICE. She is a naturalized American citizen, so I keep reminding her of that, but she too is concerned about the mix ups resulting in people being taken away to detention facilities in other states etc. so she is less inclined to shop in the neighborhood because of her concerns; she lives in a large Latino immigrant community. A part of the disconnect here is white Americans have no concept of what it's like to be in this kind of situation, so their assumptions often lean in the direction of everything being ok if your status is not suspect. This completely ignores the impact of being suspect by law enforcement, who can automatically looks at you as a potential criminal regardless of whether you've done anything wrong or not.
 
Lord of Planar said:
So a question for you. Are you a US citizen or legal resident? My girlfriend is now afraid to travel. She is 100% legal with passport, permanent resident green card, and social security number. The Cuban fear in Florida is high, and she is afraid to travel back here to Portland since the last trip she made from my place here in Portland to Florida-Cuba-Florida. Even though the Trump administration action have caused this, I do not see it being a problem for her, except she is now afraid. I think she should have no problem traveling to Portland with her passport and green card.
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Your GF can have a fear but that does not mean the fear is reasonable.
 
trumptman said:
Your GF can have a fear but that does not mean the fear is reasonable.
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I try to tell her that. It makes me wonder if she decided she like Florida more than being with me, but doesn't want to say she wants to break up. I can't blame Her. She is paying for her communications to Cuba with her family on one of my credit cars at a rate of $200 to $300 a month. Phone calls and their internet to have communications any time. I will let that go for now. That much money doesn't hurt me. But at some point, I will need to draw a line. She may actually have such a fear, but she may be using it as an excuse.

I do not blame her for wanting to stay in Florida. She is probably in the best region there. She lives in a suburb of West Palm Beach. Portlandia has become one of the worse US cities ever. Unless you are a WOKE leftist.

She loves president Trump otherwise, because the democrats represent the chaos she left Cuba over.
 
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trumptman said:
CimpleMan, you are at a farm. It turns out that half the people working there are here illegally. The other half are native workers and legal immigrants.

When that place is raided, you will likely be detained and briefly questioned.

That is what is happening. There's nothing wrong with that.
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That's a different scenario than many incidents happening in public places.
 
To be fair I profile people. Like down here in the south if they have a red MAGA hat or a Trump flag or an Alligator Alcatraz shirt then I know they probably have no heart (and there's a good chance they're religious AND get money from government in some way).

Difference is I'm not arresting people who can end up in a foreign torture prison where they have to kneel for 8 hours at a time while they're shitting themselves and being beaten.
 
To make sure you don't miss this juicy morsel...

As part of the same interview, Politico noted the recent Supreme Court ruling that cleared the way for eight men to be deported to South Sudan. The border czar said he was unsure of the status of the eight men — or whether they are detained there — saying that they are no longer in U.S. custody.

“They’re living in Sudan. And will they stay in Sudan? I don’t know,” he said. “When we sign these agreements with all these countries, we make arrangements to make sure these countries are receiving these people and there’s opportunities for these people. But I can’t tell if we remove somebody to Sudan — they can stay there a week and leave. I don’t know.”
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CaughtInThe said:
To be fair I profile people. Like down here in the south if they have a red MAGA hat or a Trump flag or an Alligator Alcatraz shirt then I know they probably have no heart (and there's a good chance they're religious AND get money from government in some way).
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Thank-you for the honesty in your bigotry.
CaughtInThe said:
Difference is I'm not arresting people who can end up in a foreign torture prison where they have to kneel for 8 hours at a time while they're shitting themselves and being beaten.
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We have a different viewpoint on this. I do believe that individual who I forget the name of, was a gang member and illegal immigrant. El Salvador puts in prison all gang members, regardless of actual crimes commuted. he was returned to his country of origin.

Right or wrong, that is my viewpoint.

Now we will go though a trial which would have saved this political distress if done before, but I suspect his future will be the same. A return to that prison in EL Salvador.
 
Fearandloathing said:
He's actually correct.

The US constitution applies to citizens and LEGAL residents only.

An "applicant" for entry is neither and can be held indefinitely if there is any suspicion of duplicity. An applicant, at least back in the day, has no rights under the constitution but is only protected by whatever immigration agreement the US has with the host country.

I learned this the hard way with a friend who was born in Puerto Rico but came to Canada as a child. They ran his ID and determined he was an "American" and therefore subject to the draft and was arrested on the spot.

He was in jail for about three months proving he was a naturalized Canadian citizen
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The US Constitution applies to the US GOVERNMENT, regardless of who the government is dealing with. That is why is specifically refers to citizens in some places, while using “people” or “persons” elsewhere.
 
ElChupacabra said:
This was obvious to me from the very beginning, which is why I got my passport card and carry it with me. Given what was pretty clear about this administration and its goal, there was no way any Latino couldn't see what was coming. Though I'm over the initial disappointment of living in a country where I would have to take precautions and have additional IDs in the event I get profiled, I can't repeat enough how my entire view of this country has radically changed.
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Sadly, people who hate this country have taken it over.
 
CimpleMan said:
That's a different scenario than many incidents happening in public places.
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No it isn't. The complaint is that they are going to Home Depot, Farms, Car Washes and other places where the percentage of people working are likely to be here illegally.

To help you understand (since you clearly don't) if I arrest someone with drugs on them and they name you as the dealer when I come and detain you, I have reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime.

If I go to the area in the park where everyone goes to buy drugs and you are there at midnight with ten other people and no one has named you and I haven't watched you sell drugs but I briefly detain and question everyone in that area of the park, that is totality of the circumstances. As he said they, ust go through the observation, get our typical facts — based on the location, the occupation, their physical appearance, their actions.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I try to tell her that. It makes me wonder if she decided she like Florida more than being with me, but doesn't want to say she wants to break up. I can't blame Her. She is paying for her communications to Cuba with her family on one of my credit cars at a rate of $200 to $300 a month. Phone calls and their internet to have communications any time. I will let that go for now. That much money doesn't hurt me. But at some point, I will need to draw a line. She may actually have such a fear, but she may be using it as an excuse.

I do not blame her for wanting to stay in Florida. She is probably in the best region there. She lives in a suburb of West Palm Beach. Portlandia has become one of the worse US cities ever. Unless you are a WOKE leftist.

She loves president Trump otherwise, because the democrats represent the chaos she left Cuba over.
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Might want to investigate if you might do better there too. A door closes, a window opens.
 
trumptman said:
No it isn't. The complaint is that they are going to Home Depot, Farms, Car Washes and other places where the percentage of people working are likely to be here illegally.

To help you understand (since you clearly don't) if I arrest someone with drugs on them and they name you as the dealer when I come and detain you, I have reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime.

If I go to the area in the park where everyone goes to buy drugs and you are there at midnight with ten other people and no one has named you and I haven't watched you sell drugs but I briefly detain and question everyone in that area of the park, that is totality of the circumstances. As he said they, ust go through the observation, get our typical facts — based on the location, the occupation, their physical appearance, their actions.
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A public place is not the same as a private business and in this particular case there was most likely probable cause.
 
Jezcoe said:
Sadly, people who hate this country have taken it over.
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I think this is more about what version of the country people have and are fighting for. Looking at it historically, this period seems reminiscent of others where change becomes a major division point.
 
trumptman said:
No it isn't. The complaint is that they are going to Home Depot, Farms, Car Washes and other places where the percentage of people working are likely to be here illegally.

To help you understand (since you clearly don't) if I arrest someone with drugs on them and they name you as the dealer when I come and detain you, I have reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime.

If I go to the area in the park where everyone goes to buy drugs and you are there at midnight with ten other people and no one has named you and I haven't watched you sell drugs but I briefly detain and question everyone in that area of the park, that is totality of the circumstances. As he said they, ust go through the observation, get our typical facts — based on the location, the occupation, their physical appearance, their actions.
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So in the scenario where ICE agents go to a Car Wash looking for illegal immigrants. They briefly detain people and ask for ID but no one will produce ID because California does not have a Stop and ID law and there is no Federal Stop and ID Law.... what should the ICE Agents do next?
 
ElChupacabra said:
I think this is more about what version of the country people have and are fighting for. Looking at it historically, this period seems reminiscent of others where change becomes a major division point.
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The thing is that when one actually reads some American History... the Nativist Movements do not look like the heroes.

These people think that they are the heroes.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Recognition is one thing.

But your actions would NOT stand in court. What you're on about is "impressions" which are based on YOUR previous exposure to various groups.
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Unfortunately, ICE is not complying with the law. They have not been providing due process. There are also reports that detainees at Alligator Auschwitz that according to two attorneys they have been denied access to their clients even when notified well in advance of their intention to meet with their clients.
 
Fearandloathing said:
The US constitution applies to citizens and LEGAL residents only.
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That's incorrect.

If as a Canadian if I commit a crime while visiting the US full Constitutional rights are afforded me.

For example habeas corpus:

"The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it"

For example due process (bolded applies):

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
 
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