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White House and Republicans reach a tentative deal to avoid U.S. default

gbg3 said:
Well, I noticed this thread was getting further and further away from actually looking at and analyzing the deal so I started a thread for those, like me, who actually like the details more than the narratives. So far, the details are still lacking but I'll be doing the best I can, as more details are released, to obtain and post actual details rather than meaningless and tossed out partisan spin.
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It’s a terrible deal!

It’s like Brer Rabbit getting thrown in the briar patch!

I hear the next deal is that Drag Queen shows will be banned from being performed in libraries between 46-55 years of age unless they have children’s sections. It’s horrible fascism.
 
Callen said:
Again I disagree. There are 45 Freedom Caucus members and 100 Progressives in the House even if they all vote against it, which is unlikely, that still leaves a mole room for additional dissenters and it still passes. However, indefinitely will take lots of members from both sides to pass it.
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With no spending reductions included and more than doubling the debt ceiling increase amount (to get us beyond the 2024 elections), I suspect more than just House MAGA republicants will vote no. The ‘agreement in principle’ reached doesn’t seem to have significantly slowed spending growth (potential) or require any ‘pay for’ on future spending increases.
 
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Gateman_Wen said:
Yes. Never negotiate with terrorists.

There are real reasons for that.
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If terrorists had a nuclear bomb hidden under a major U.S. city, we would negotiate with them.

You don't let tens of millions of Americans suffer because you want to hold to a principle.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
With no spending reductions included and more than doubling the debt ceiling increase amount (to get us beyond the 2024 elections), I suspect more than just House MAGA republicants will vote no. The ‘agreement in principle’ reached doesn’t seem to have significantly slowed spending growth or require any ‘pay for’ on future spending increases.
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You are correct it doesn't. The only truly positive thing I see is the requirement to use the appropriations process and pass those bill by January or impose cuts. Getting back to a true budget process instead of continuing resolutions and omnibus bills is definitely a positive.
 
ALiberalModerate said:
If terrorists had a nuclear bomb hidden under a major U.S. city, we would negotiate with them.

You don't let tens of millions of Americans suffer because you want to hold to a principle.
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You do not negotiate with terrorists. If you do they have won and you just gave them license to do it again next time. The only way to end it is not to start. Even if they have a nuclear weapon under a city.

Decades ago the company I worked for was training a hostage rescue team. I volunteered because it sounded interesting and because the more you have on your resume the more money you make in that business. We trained with Yamam in Israel.

The biggest take-away? It sucks to be a hostage. You probably will not be surviving.
 
Callen said:
You are correct it doesn't. The only truly positive thing I see is the requirement to use the appropriations process and pass those bill by January or impose cuts. Getting back to a true budget process instead of continuing resolutions and omnibus bills is definitely a positive.
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Are you kidding me? The federal FY2024 starts October 1, 2023 meaning (up to) 1/4 of it could have already occurred before its “budget” is required to be passed - which would require ‘continuing resolutions’ to be used in place of the ‘normal’ appropriations process.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Are you kidding me? The federal fiscal year starts October 1. meaning (up to) 1/4 of it could have already occurred before its “budget” is required to be passed - which would require ‘continuing resolutions’ to be used in place of the ‘normal’ appropriations process.
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OK......but step in the right direction. How long had it been since appropriations was used?
 
Gateman_Wen said:
You do not negotiate with terrorists. If you do they have won and you just gave them license to do it again next time. The only way to end it is not to start. Even if they have a nuclear weapon under a city.

Decades ago the company I worked for was training a hostage rescue team. I volunteered because it sounded interesting and because the more you have on your resume the more money you make in that business. We trained with Yamam in Israel.

The biggest take-away? It sucks to be a hostage. You probably will not be surviving.
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So you think we should tank the U.S. economy which would result in countless people losing their jobs, their savings, their retirement, their homes, a huge uptick in suicides... Just because out of principle, we should not negotiate with Republicans over taking the debt ceiling hostage.

We have to deal with the world as it is, and the world as it is, has economically incompetent Republicans that are willing to hold the nation's economy hostage over the debt ceiling.
 
The negotiated bill may not pass anyway. Jim Hines has it right: you cannot validate the repulsican tactics because its going to be repeated over and over again when the roles are reversed:

"
Connecticut Rep. Jim Himes, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said Sunday he was leaning toward a "no" vote on the tentative deal to raise the debt ceiling for two years.

www.cnn.com

Live updates: US debt ceiling deal tentatively set by Biden and McCarthy

The White House and Republicans have agreed in principle on a deal to raise the debt ceiling, House Speaker Kevin McCarthy said Saturday. Follow here for live updates.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

“I'm tempted to say, ‘No, I'm a no vote’ -- because, as the speaker said, there is absolutely nothing for the Democrats in these things," Himes said on "Fox News Sunday."
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A former chair and current member of the pro-business New Democrat Coalition, Himes said he did not want to validate the negotiating process used by Republicans, "which at the end of the day is a hostage-taking process."

"Even if I get to use it two years from now? I don't want to do that. I don't want to present a Republican president with a list of priorities and say, 'Unless you enact these priorities, we're going to blow up the global economy,'" he said."
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ALiberalModerate said:
So you think we should tank the U.S. economy which would result in countless people losing their jobs, their savings, their retirement, their homes, a huge uptick in suicides... Just because out of principle, we should not negotiate with Republicans over taking the debt ceiling hostage.

We have to deal with the world as it is, and the world as it is, has economically incompetent Republicans that are willing to hold the nation's economy hostage over the debt ceiling.
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They're gonna cause it sooner or later, better to rip that band aid off now.
 
lol, turns out that McCarthy was the one bent over like the little bitch we all thought he was.

 
MTAtech said:
From your article:
The measure is dead on arrival in the Democratic-led Senate, but is primarily aimed at boosting Republicans’ efforts to negotiate with Democrats as the country approaches its default deadline as soon as this summer.

Well, the Democrats, represented by the WH, negotiated.
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As I keep saying...the Senate is not doing their job. They are useless.
 
dobieg said:
Middle aged men who still game in their mother's basement love weenie liberal leaders.
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What kind of ridiculous statement is this? Some bizarre stream-of-consciousness peak into your innermost psychology?
 
Mycroft said:
As I keep saying...the Senate is not doing their job. They are useless.
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And as I taught you no response IS a response. The Senate played this perfectly. If you want to talk about "useless" you should start with the House weenies submitting a bill that was DOA, a waste of time for everyone. It never saw the light of day.
 
dobieg said:
lol, turns out that McCarthy was the one bent over like the little bitch we all thought he was.

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It certainly appears to be so. McCarthy knew that ‘negotiating’ (aka backing down) would cost him (at least) X republicant House votes, thus to pass in the House (making him ‘blameless’) he had to back down far enough to replace those with (at least) X demorat House votes. This was nothing more than a political show, allowing continuing (now normal) deficit spending based federal “budgeting”.

This was a big win for demorats, getting the “fiscal responsibility” ‘can kicked down the road’ past the 2024 elections.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It certainly appears to be so. McCarthy knew that ‘negotiating’ (aka backing down) would cost him (at least) X republicant House votes, thus to pass in the House (making him ‘blameless’) he had to back down far enough to replace those with (at least) X demorat House votes. This was nothing more than a political show, allowing continuing (now normal) deficit spending based federal “budgeting”.

This was a big win for demorats, getting the “fiscal responsibility” ‘can kicked down the road’ past the 2024 elections.
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It may very well cost him his gavel though.
 
Ethel2 said:
And as I taught you no response IS a response. The Senate played this perfectly.
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As I keep saying...the Senate is not doing their job. They are useless.

And you are okay with that.
 
craig said:
This is why Biden is superior to Trump. He can sacrifice himself for the country and Trump never could.
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But in this case, Biden didn't sacrifice himself for the country. He sacrificed the country's wellbeing to appease Republicans.

Some of the things in this tentative agreement aren't that bad, but giving in to the Republicans' demand to defund the police (by cutting the IRS budget) was terrible.
 
Callen said:
It may very well cost him his gavel though.
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Not likely with such a slim republicant majority that it took making multiple promises (now apparently broken) to get him that job. IMHO, there aren’t enough ‘moderate’ republicant House members to get him replaced with another republicant speaker, making it an even bet as to whether a ‘moderate’ demorat may be able to become the next House speaker.
 
Mycroft said:
As I keep saying...the Senate is not doing their job. They are useless.

And you are okay with that.
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And you have failed to learn that no response IS a response. The Senate just waited for the House bill to implode, which it did, and for the negotiations between Biden and McCarthy to conclude. Sticking their noses into those negotiations would have been the kind of blunder that one would expect of MAGATS.
 
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