While it's fun to bash Trump, there's an important lesson here.

[KingLeo]

No it hasn't. Both housing and healthcare are two prominent examples where the state has a lot of control and both of those markets are disasters.

Pure capitalism, just like pure socialism, are not viable systems.
And most definitely the US has been a blend since our beginnings as a nation.

 

[phoenix2020]

I actually think he may be doing that for personal reasons. I think he wants world leaders to come beg him for relief, so he can feel powerful.

Is that petty and foolish?

Yes.

This. Trump's motivations and priorities are very simple:

• Sleeping with blond women with large busts
• Playing golf
• Making money
• Lording over others
• Being praised by crowds
• Watching TV
• McDonalds

Everything he has done in his life is in service of one of the above. Tariffs are simply the tool he picked to make himself feel powerful while humiliating all other world leaders (except Vladimir Putin who was exempted from the tariffs). He doesn't even understand how tariffs work, and never has.

 

[aociswundumho]

Pure capitalism, just like pure socialism, are not viable systems.
And most definitely the US has been a blend since our beginnings as a nation.

You're not addressing the point. If political intervention improves outcomes, why are the housing and healthcare markets complete disasters? They both have heavy government intervention.

 

[The Mark]

You're not addressing the point. If political intervention improves outcomes, why are the housing and healthcare markets complete disasters? They both have heavy government intervention.

I think most of our markets have some form of government intervention, and have done for awhile. We subsidize various industries and sectors we deemed necessary, like farming and oil extraction/refining. And more recently, green energy, electric vehicles.

And that's the direct version, we also have drug and food manufacturers influencing the regulatory agencies, so that in some cases we've set up the rules so that some companies benefit and others do not.

Edit: Hell, we have an entire industry - tax preparation companies, that successfully lobbied to prevent the IRS from providing all of us with a free online tax filing option.

And that's probably not the only industry that exists largely because of rules that may need updated.

Edit 2: Like the health insurance industry.

 

[Questerr]

I can understand if some of these MAGAs want to do this to themselves.

But the fact that they're screwing their own kids and grandkids just baffles me. It just seems so evil.

The ideology that centers on “**** you, I’ve got mine” attracts sociopaths. They don’t care about other people until they are personally affected somehow.

 

[Questerr]

Do you consider a government imposing tariffs to be a form of authoritarianism?

Certainly when one person in said government does it with zero checks and balances to stop them.

I am opposed to tariffs. They only harm consumers and there is a better way to do anything that tariffs are supposed to accomplish.

 

[Questerr]

You're not addressing the point. If political intervention improves outcomes, why are the housing and healthcare markets complete disasters? They both have heavy government intervention.

And even heavier corporate lobbying. The housing and healthcare markets are exactly how the rich want them to be. Do you think the rich wouldn’t use their economic power to continue those systems if the government somehow disappeared?

 

[aociswundumho]

Certainly when one person in said government does it with zero checks and balances to stop them.

Congress has the power to stop them, so there goes your "zero checks and balances".

I am opposed to tariffs. They only harm consumers and there is a better way to do anything that tariffs are supposed to accomplish.

What is this "better way" you are referring to?

 

[CaughtInThe]

The ideology that centers on “**** you, I’ve got mine” attracts sociopaths. They don’t care about other people until they are personally affected somehow.

I have some of those in my family and extended family.

Like the cousin who talked shit about gay people forever until he had a gay kid.

Like another cousin who was anti-science everything until his wife had a stroke and now struggles to even talk or walk. But they run to the doctors constantly for help.

And the brother-in-law who broke down in tears when one of my sisters had massive health problems and all I could think about was him fighting tooth and nail against using science to advance research (due to religious reasons) that would have actually helped her. At that point he just wanted science make her live.

 

[aociswundumho]

And even heavier corporate lobbying. The housing and healthcare markets are exactly how the rich want them to be.

Yes, you finally got something right. When buying and selling is controlled by regulation, the first thing to be bought and sold are the regulators. This is a feature of democracy and a fact of life.

Do you think the rich wouldn’t use their economic power to continue those systems if the government somehow disappeared?

How are "the rich" going to prevent people from building houses on their own land without a state?

 

[Questerr]

Congress has the power to stop them, so there goes your "zero checks and balances".



What is this "better way" you are referring to?

The only real justification for tariffs is to protect industries necessary for national security. You don’t want your military beholden to the whims of other nations when your defense is dependent on it.

Instead of tariffs for such industries, the native industries should be subsidized, preferably with a government-run company operating at cost.

 

[Questerr]

Yes, you finally got something right. When buying and selling is controlled by regulation, the first thing to be bought and sold are the regulators. This is a feature of democracy and a fact of life.



How are "the rich" going to prevent people from building houses on their own land without a state?

It’s not a feature of democracy. Our economy is anything but democratic.

The rich will own the land. The same as they did when they were the previous version of feudal lords.

 

[aociswundumho]

Instead of tariffs for such industries, the native industries should be subsidized, preferably with a government-run company operating at cost.

Ah, the post office model.

It’s not a feature of democracy. Our economy is anything but democratic.

Yes it is, and it exists in every democracy on the planet.

The rich will own the land. The same as they did when they were the previous version of feudal lords.

One of the reasons that system died out is because people just walked away, and the feudal lords couldn't stop them.

 

[Germinator]

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

...why worry the stable genius is on top of things

 

[Questerr]

Ah, the post office model.



Yes it is, and it exists in every democracy on the planet.



One of the reasons that system died out is because people just walked away, and the feudal lords couldn't stop them.

There is no nation with economic democracy anywhere on earth.

The feudal lords did stop them. The thing that eventually killed feudalism was absolute monarchies giving serfs and commoners protections from lower feudal lords as a means of enhancing their own power against those nobles.

People who just “walked away” from their feudal lords most definitely faced violence from those same feudal lords.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

You're not addressing the point. If political intervention improves outcomes, why are the housing and healthcare markets complete disasters? They both have heavy government intervention.

Do you believe that "political intervention" is a fungible commodity which is essentially identical in all times and places?

Or are you intentionally trying to pass off equivocation as an argument here?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Ah, the post office model.

the US military model

 

[Questerr]

the US military model

He would prefer Men at Arms serving Feudal Lords… sorry I didn’t use @aociswundumho preferred politically correct terms “private security companies serving wealthy owners”.

 

[aociswundumho]

He would prefer Men at Arms serving Feudal Lords… sorry I didn’t use @aociswundumho preferred politically correct terms “private security companies serving wealthy owners”.

Right now there are more people working in private security firms than there are cops. Furthermore, cops don't even provide protection - the supremes have ruled repeatedly that cops have no obligation to protect you or your property.

 

[Questerr]

Right now there are more people working in private security firms than there are cops. Furthermore, cops don't even provide protection - the supremes have ruled repeatedly that cops have no obligation to protect you or your property.

Yes, there are rentacops protecting businesses and gated communities.

How many of them have policing power like the private police you want to exist?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

He would prefer Men at Arms serving Feudal Lords… sorry I didn’t use @aociswundumho preferred politically correct terms “private security companies serving wealthy owners”.

iirc, most classical military treatises have choice words for the use of mercenaries

 

[Mr Person]

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

If you actually believed your Big-L Libertarianism crap, you'd have moved to an area of Earth to which official government cannot extend its grasp. You didn't. Your ideas have no merit.

Regulated capitalism historically works best. The problem is that rich people use others, including you people, to get rid of any regulation or law that hampers their ability to make an extra buck at everyone's expense.

 

[aociswundumho]

Do you believe that "political intervention" is a fungible commodity which is essentially identical in all times and places?

It doesn’t matter. For example, imagine that instead of massive tariffs, Trump uses massive government subsidies to achieve the same result. It would still be a disaster. As soon as you start overriding voluntary consumer behavior with political decrees, things begin to deteriorate - and that’s exactly what we see in the housing and healthcare markets.

 

[aociswundumho]

Regulated capitalism historically works best.

No it doesn't. We have two prominent examples: the healthcare market and the housing market. Both are highly regulated, and both are disasters.

 

[phoenix2020]

No it doesn't. We have two prominent examples: the healthcare market and the housing market. Both are highly regulated, and both are disasters.

Neither is a disaster, at least not for the United States. For South Sudan? Yeah, complete disaster. Burundi? Sure, complete disaster. Liberia? A complete disaster. Yemen? Definitely a complete disaster. Oh, and none of them have significant regulation around either healthcare or housing and all are actual complete disasters.

But for the United States? There are good points and bad points to our healthcare market and our housing market. Certainly neither is a "complete disaster".