While it's fun to bash Trump, there's an important lesson here.

[aociswundumho]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.

Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

 

[The Mark]

I personally tend to think that capitalism cannot be trusted to run itself, and requires regulatory and legal limits to prevent the excesses it naturally trends towards, which will harm people.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.
It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.
Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.
But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.
Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.
If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

Trumpism is antithetical to American conservatism for more reasons than this or these

Trumpism is authoritarianism.

Trump said the Constitution should be scrapped and that the govt should violate the 2nd Amendment.

Trumpism is distinctly un-American.

 

[Callen]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

I do believe that is it in a nutshell. He has no vision of the future, only the past. America has established itself as a high tech and business services giant but Trump doesn't understand that is where the future lies. His vision for America is what it used to be...not what it can be.

 

[phoenix2020]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.

Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

I think you are somewhat conflating individualism vs. collectivism with free market vs. centrally planned and democracy vs. authoritarianism. There are relationships between these spectra but they do not all mean the same thing, and they do not always line up properly. Trump is a sociopathic narcissist and therefore cares little about having a position regarding individualism/collectivism or free-market/centrally-planned-market, he only cares about being the one to wield the power. This is why tariffs are announced, delayed, enacted, escalated and removed seemingly at random--it is the very act of being the one who issues non-stop edicts that brings him pleasure. Tariffs were just the tool that popped into his mind.

Put differently, Trump doesn't care about people working in factories any more than he cares about people working white collar jobs. He just wants them kicking back a percentage to him, while pulling their strings every now and then just to show them that he's the CEO, the boss, and that he can.

Nothing about an individualist or collectivist society makes one or the other more or less vulnerable to autocracy, or limits its reach, as is readily demonstrated by MAGA--a group of tens of millions of supposedly fiercely individualistic people who nevertheless have sworn such loyalty to one person that they self-censor themselves and readily give up their freedoms as a tithe to their leader.

 

[j brown's body]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.

Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

Basically, you're saying he's going to give the us the negative characteristics of a socialist state while we remain a capitalist state with the ownership of the means of production remain in private hands.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I think you are somewhat conflating individualism vs. collectivism with free market vs. centrally planned and democracy vs. authoritarianism. There are relationships between these spectra but they do not all mean the same thing, and they do not always line up properly. Trump is a sociopathic narcissist and therefore cares little about having a position regarding individualism/collectivism or free-market/centrally-planned-market, he only cares about being the one to wield the power. This is why tariffs are announced, delayed, enacted, escalated and removed seemingly at random--it is the very act of being the one who issues non-stop edicts that brings him pleasure. Tariffs were just the tool that popped into his mind.

Put differently, Trump doesn't care about people working in factories any more than he cares about people working white collar jobs. He just wants them kicking back a percentage to him, while pulling their strings every now and then just to show them that he's the CEO, the boss, and that he can.

Nothing about an individualist or collectivist society makes one or the other more or less vulnerable to autocracy, or limits its reach, as is readily demonstrated by MAGA--a group of tens of millions of supposedly fiercely individualistic people who nevertheless have sworn such loyalty to one person that they self-censor themselves and readily give up their freedoms as a tithe to their leader.

Trumpco customers imagine that Trump shares their values

however

Trump lacks anything resembling "values" or principles as normal people understand them



I understand why it's hard to imagine Trump as he is.
I get why people do not want to see him as he is.
He's loathsome.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Basically, you're saying he's going to give the us the negative characteristics of a socialist state while we remain a capitalist state with the ownership of the means of production remain in private hands.

sounds like what OP is getting at

I'm just glad to see any criticisms of the Trump coming from folks who ostensibly support him

it's refreshing and less cult like

 

[KingLeo]

It does not have to be one or the other, i.e. socialism -vs- capitalism.
The US has for decades been a blend of socialism and capitalism and for the most part it has worked well.
What Trump is trying to turn the US into is an authoritarian oligarchy which is far more dangerous to us citizens.

 

[aociswundumho]

The US has for decades been a blend of socialism and capitalism and for the most part it has worked well.

No it hasn't. Both housing and healthcare are two prominent examples where the state has a lot of control and both of those markets are disasters.

 

[aociswundumho]

I personally tend to think that capitalism cannot be trusted to run itself,

Neither does Trump, hence the tariffs.

 

[BirdinHand]

You’re an anarchist who would have us at the whim of whichever band of overlords happened to gain control over whatever geographic region we live in.

Your posts indicate that you don’t believe in ANY government whatsoever.

So, . Not interested in any “lessons” from someone who consistently posts from mindset. Thanks.

 

[The Mark]

Neither does Trump, hence the tariffs.

I actually think he may be doing that for personal reasons. I think he wants world leaders to come beg him for relief, so he can feel powerful.

Is that petty and foolish?

Yes.

 

[Diving Mullah]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.

Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

You are dead wrong.

He's swinging the pendulum entirely in the opposite direction by enacting a corporate capitalist fascist state where only a handful of corporations—accountable exclusively to him—are permitted to operate. At the same time, he's dismantling revered social safety nets and federal oversight intended to limit corporate power. He actively hollowing all Federal agencies like TSA and the US postal service to the breaking point then point and blame them for how inefficient they are opening the path for privatization (in accordance with project 2025)

This approach is the exact opposite of the socialist perspective you're portraying. That's precisely why his cabinet is filled with billionaires, not socialists.


Nice spin, though—especially if you have no idea about the meanings and definitions of socialist versus capitalist societies.

BTW his playbook was NOT written by a socialist, it was written by a group of libertarian and conservative capitalists!

Diving Mullah

 

[Helix]

I'm glad that I'm not in a cult.

 

[aociswundumho]

He's swinging the pendulum entirely in the opposite direction by enacting a corporate capitalist fascist state where only a handful of corporations—accountable exclusively to him—are permitted to operate.

Let's start with this ridiculous claim. Name the corporations you are referring to, and then explain how he will prevent the other 7 million or so C and S corps from operating.

 

[Questerr]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.

Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

It's almost as if the problem is authoritarianism and the solution is to limit individual power, to include economic power.

 

[Questerr]

You’re an anarchist who would have us at the whim of whichever band of overlords happened to gain control over whatever geographic region we live in.

Your posts indicate that you don’t believe in ANY government whatsoever.

So, . Not interested in any “lessons” from someone who consistently posts from mindset. Thanks.

@aociswundumho is NOT an Anarchist. Anarchists are opposed to capitalism.

Aociswundumbho wants feudalism with modern business titles that would result from completely unregulated capitalism with zero government.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Trump has a vision of taking America back to a time when most people worked in factories, and he's actually trying to force that vision on the rest of us. His use of tariffs is a clear example of government central planning, just on a small scale. He's using state power to try to reshape the American economy according to his own personal preferences.

It’s important to understand that tariffs are built on the same logic as central planning: the belief that government officials should override voluntary exchange and market signals to engineer a particular economic outcome. That’s the dangerous idea behind it.

Thankfully, Trump only has limited power, because this is still a free country. The U.S. is not a socialist state with a centrally planned economy.

But let’s think about how much damage he can do using only tariffs. Then imagine if he had control over the entire economy: wages, prices, raw materials, labor markets - every input. That would be a disaster. And we already have a name for that kind of system: socialism, which is public control over the means of production.

Trump is demonstrating to us why socialist countries are so poor - and why their people are often so miserable that the government has to build walls to keep them from escaping.

If you want prosperity, and the freedom to buy what you want, from who you want , then the answer is capitalism and largely free markets, not state control or central planning.

People in our country you're not going to work for $5 a day.

That you don't know that is very telling.

 

[Questerr]

People in our country you're not going to work for $5 a day.

That you don't know that is very telling.

They will when they are destitute serfs in @aociswundumho Neo-Feudalist dream world where any attempt to unionize or protest for better pay and conditions results in rich owners sending private mercenaries to kill enough of them of scare the rest into silence. After all, the rich owner will just be responding to socialist aggression of the workers so his use of force will be justified.

 

[Ikari]

I personally tend to think that capitalism cannot be trusted to run itself, and requires regulatory and legal limits to prevent the excesses it naturally trends towards, which will harm people.

Free market capitalism does have a level of oversight to it. Even Hayek argued that, something that many people who try to evoke "Austrian Economics" seem to forget (likely because none of them have actually read Hayek).

The troubles come in with government trying to steer and control markets, not with oversight in general.

 

[CaughtInThe]

They will when they are destitute serfs in @aociswundumho Neo-Feudalist dream world where any attempt to unionize or protest for better pay and conditions results in rich owners sending private mercenaries to kill enough of them of scare the rest into silence. After all, the rich owner will just be responding to socialist aggression of the workers so his use of force will be justified.

I can understand if some of these MAGAs want to do this to themselves.

But the fact that they're screwing their own kids and grandkids just baffles me. It just seems so evil.

 

[Ikari]

Basically, you're saying he's going to give the us the negative characteristics of a socialist state while we remain a capitalist state with the ownership of the means of production remain in private hands.

Yes, this is the Chinese system of communism. That's what Trump wants.

 

[The Mark]

Free market capitalism does have a level of oversight to it. Even Hayek argued that, something that many people who try to evoke "Austrian Economics" seem to forget (likely because none of them have actually read Hayek).

The troubles come in with government trying to steer and control markets, not with oversight in general.

What troubles?

Edit: After brief consideration, capitalism in the form of corporations and those with wealth and capital is and has been influencing the government to try and steer and control markets for decades now.

I think that's part of the problem.


But are those the troubles you meant?

Edit 2: I mean, we literally have one of those capitalists waving around oversized million dollar checks in an attempt to buy votes. And no, I don't care that the courts said it was OK thus far, we all ****ing know what he was doing.

 

[aociswundumho]

It's almost as if the problem is authoritarianism and the solution is to limit individual power, to include economic power.

Do you consider a government imposing tariffs to be a form of authoritarianism?