Which WMD has most usable value?

[joko104]

Nuclear, biological or chemical?

My answer has always been the one we are under attack from now - biological. Covid-19 is a test run - targeting who China most would like to eliminate - elderly because they are costly non-producers - and blacks - with the population explosion in Africa threatening China's growing economic interests there. It also is a tactic warning from China. Since we get everything from China - even most food now is from or processed in China, they could kill virtually every American by an unstoppable biological attack before we knew anything was happening - and then about it. Regardless, most of us are dead, dying or inevitably will be infected - all while China (or other attack) says "we didn't do it, it just came out of nature!"

We also see the benefits to biological attacks too.

Deniability: You can kill hundreds of thousands or millions, devastate the adversaries economy and society, while denying any responsibility or alternatively claim it was an accident.

Harm to adversary: Covid-19 has permanently destroyed hundreds of thousands of small businesses, soon to top over half a million, with small business the largest employer in the USA. The unemployed reached 40 million. The national debt will have increased 50% in not much more than a year - and the costs and harms - economic and to society will last for years and may keep getting worse as more and more lethal stains of it are released or evolved.

Killing the enemy: The Wuhan biological warfare gain-of-function covid-19 is claimed to have killed 350,000 Americans and the number rapidly growing. If this continues, it will be the most deadly war the USA has ever been in - with nothing but profits and benefits to the attacker. Brilliant strategy by China.

Profitability: China is at the same time making trillions off this as people no longer spend money at restaurants, travel, road trips and going to amusement parks or the theater. Rather, they spend that money buying from Amazon and WalMart - 95%+ being Chinese products. Even most masks are from China.

The response of the USA to a nuclear or chemical attack, even if far less deadly and destructive, would be immediately and massive. But our response to a biological attack? Destroy ourselves even further and send the attackers massive sums of money as a reward - while we are being continuously made sick, harmed and killed and our society smashed.

The most effective WMD is covert biological attack, because it can be used with only benefits for doing so, while slaughtering the enemy by every measure.

 

[Dayton3]

Nuclear weapons are the only WMDs that actually matter.

The damage from Covid-19 would not have been nearly as great if the U.S. hadn't overreacted to it.

 

[noonereal]

Nuclear, biological or chemical?

Well, there is a high probability we are currently under biological attack, I'd say it's pretty effective.
Problem is, it knows no boarders.

 

[Kiwimac]

What a load of tosh.

 

[OrphanSlug]

What makes the OP think they are all deployed the same way for the same reason?

In other words, what a terrible way to look at this by “usable value.” Nuclear, biological and chemical warfare all have reasons for their existence, and not always to the same ends. Obviously.

 

[MamboDervish]

Nuclear, biological or chemical?

My answer has always been the one we are under attack from now - biological. Covid-19 is a test run - targeting who China most would like to eliminate - elderly because they are costly non-producers - and blacks - with the population explosion in Africa threatening China's growing economic interests there. It also is a tactic warning from China. Since we get everything from China - even most food now is from or processed in China, they could kill virtually every American by an unstoppable biological attack before we knew anything was happening - and then about it. Regardless, most of us are dead, dying or inevitably will be infected - all while China (or other attack) says "we didn't do it, it just came out of nature!"

WMD - ?? - LMAO
Yeah . . . sure. There's no better weapon than the one that kills mostly the infirm. The aged and the elderly - the sickly and obese - the ones with preexisting respiratory and coronary conditions. What a stroke of genius! Cull the weakest and make my enemy stronger !!! That aught to teach them!!!

Do you even read what you write?

 

[Antiwar]

Why do you like talking about these things?

 

[Rich2018]

Nuclear weapons are the only WMDs that actually matter.

The damage from Covid-19 would not have been nearly as great if the U.S. hadn't overreacted to it.

Or rather grossly underreacted to it.

 

[Questerr]

Nuclear, biological or chemical?

My answer has always been the one we are under attack from now - biological. Covid-19 is a test run - targeting who China most would like to eliminate - elderly because they are costly non-producers - and blacks - with the population explosion in Africa threatening China's growing economic interests there. It also is a tactic warning from China. Since we get everything from China - even most food now is from or processed in China, they could kill virtually every American by an unstoppable biological attack before we knew anything was happening - and then about it. Regardless, most of us are dead, dying or inevitably will be infected - all while China (or other attack) says "we didn't do it, it just came out of nature!"

We also see the benefits to biological attacks too.

Deniability: You can kill hundreds of thousands or millions, devastate the adversaries economy and society, while denying any responsibility or alternatively claim it was an accident.

Harm to adversary: Covid-19 has permanently destroyed hundreds of thousands of small businesses, soon to top over half a million, with small business the largest employer in the USA. The unemployed reached 40 million. The national debt will have increased 50% in not much more than a year - and the costs and harms - economic and to society will last for years and may keep getting worse as more and more lethal stains of it are released or evolved.

Killing the enemy: The Wuhan biological warfare gain-of-function covid-19 is claimed to have killed 350,000 Americans and the number rapidly growing. If this continues, it will be the most deadly war the USA has ever been in - with nothing but profits and benefits to the attacker. Brilliant strategy by China.

Profitability: China is at the same time making trillions off this as people no longer spend money at restaurants, travel, road trips and going to amusement parks or the theater. Rather, they spend that money buying from Amazon and WalMart - 95%+ being Chinese products. Even most masks are from China.

The response of the USA to a nuclear or chemical attack, even if far less deadly and destructive, would be immediately and massive. But our response to a biological attack? Destroy ourselves even further and send the attackers massive sums of money as a reward - while we are being continuously made sick, harmed and killed and our society smashed.

The most effective WMD is covert biological attack, because it can be used with only benefits for doing so, while slaughtering the enemy by every measure.

USAMRIID, the US military’s center for Biological Warfare, has stated definitively that there is no indication that Covid-19 is any kind of biological weapon.

 

[Rich2018]

Nuclear weapons today are hugely destructive - no-one in their right mind would every intentionally plan to use them

Biological weapons are hugely unpredictable, they can kill your own people as much as your enemy. And why the hell would a sane country want to poison the world, or part of it ?

Chemical weapons can be nasty and the worst ones are banned. Blister agent is so bad you wouldn't want to use it on your worst enemies
However chemical weapons vary from short term area irritants all the way up to persistent lethal agents.
At a local level, the milder agents can be very useful in riot control.

 

[joko104]

USAMRIID, the US military’s center for Biological Warfare, has stated definitively that there is no indication that Covid-19 is any kind of biological weapon.

The person in the military I have discussed this with said it clearly is from China, but no one says anything because there is absolutely nothing we can or will do about it. I would not expect the US military to admit they have no defense against biological attacks and can't do anything about it if China did this.
In fact, it is a nonsensical statement. Every contagious disease easily spread is a biological weapon.

 

[joko104]

Nuclear weapons today are hugely destructive - no-one in their right mind would every intentionally plan to use them

Biological weapons are hugely unpredictable, they can kill your own people as much as your enemy. And why the hell would a sane country want to poison the world, or part of it ?

Chemical weapons can be nasty and the worst ones are banned. Blister agent is so bad you wouldn't want to use it on your worst enemies
However chemical weapons vary from short term area irritants all the way up to persistent lethal agents.
At a local level, the milder agents can be very useful in riot control.

I already stated the obvious motives. For example, Covid-19 is wildly profitable to Chinese and American plutocrats and to China in general, while massively harmful to their primary economic competitors, the USA and the EU.

China could lose 400,000,000 people and likely soon economically benefit since it would mostly eliminate the elderly and sick, while the lose of 100,000,000 Americans would likely destroy this country socially, economically and turn the USA into a totalitarian police state facing extreme poverty and social chaos.

You did not address that only biological weapons can be used fully covertly and - as is noted - no proof that it was a biological attack or who did it. Nuclear and chemical weapons are known to be attacks if used. That is the real advantage of biological weapons. It also is possible to insure the targeted country is most hit merely by tourism.

 

[Questerr]

The person in the military I have discussed this with said it clearly is from China, but no one says anything because there is absolutely nothing we can or will do about it. I would not expect the US military to admit they have no defense against biological attacks and can't do anything about it if China did this.
In fact, it is a nonsensical statement. Every contagious disease easily spread is a biological weapon.

Was the person you discussed it with a member of USAMRIID and an expert in biological warfare? What was their military specialty?

Natural diseases spreading naturally with no human agency directing them are not biological weapons. Unless you are going to say that the United States launched a deliberate biological attack on the world in 1918 and is responsible for the death of nearly 20 million people. Are you?

 

[Dayton3]

Nuclear weapons today are hugely destructive -

Not all of them.

 

[Rich2018]

I already stated the obvious motives. For example, Covid-19 is wildly profitable to Chinese and American plutocrats and to China in general, while massively harmful to their primary economic competitors, the USA and the EU.

But COVID-19 is too weak to be a weapon and if it was, why originate it in China ?

China could lose 400,000,000 people and likely soon economically benefit since it would mostly eliminate the elderly and sick, while the lose of 100,000,000 Americans would likely destroy this country socially, economically and turn the USA into a totalitarian police state facing extreme poverty and social chaos.

And China would stand to lose $billions of exports to North America and Europe

You did not address that only biological weapons can be used fully covertly and - as is noted - no proof that it was a biological attack or who did it. Nuclear and chemical weapons are known to be attacks if used. That is the real advantage of biological weapons. It also is possible to insure the targeted country is most hit merely by tourism.

So what, you can't tailor a virus to kill people in one country and not another

A man-made virus might not just kill the elderly and sick, it might kill 90% of all infants.
And make 90% of men infertile

Bio weapons are way too dangerous and unpredictable as to how they might spread and mutate.

 

[Rich2018]

Not all of them.

I was referring to the ones put in ICBMs

Yes there are lower yield devices used in things like nuclear depth charges.

 

[joko104]

Was the person you discussed it with a member of USAMRIID and an expert in biological warfare? What was their military specialty?

Natural diseases spreading naturally with no human agency directing them are not biological weapons. Unless you are going to say that the United States launched a deliberate biological attack on the world in 1918 and is responsible for the death of nearly 20 million people. Are you?

No. Your question is nonsensical - as rational as claiming there has never been a firebombing attack - unless claiming the California wildfires were an act of war by a foreign country.

You are just wrong claiming natural diseases are not biological weapons. The most known and has been used as a biological weapon is anthrax.

"Anthrax has been used as a bio-weapon for about a century mixed with powders, sprays, food and water."

The world’s most dangerous bioweapons

www.army-technology.com

.

The above link lists other natural diseases of biological weapons potential. Natural diseases have been used as biological weapons dates 3500 years ago as the first WMD.

The world’s most dangerous bioweapons

www.army-technology.com

.

There is nothing else a member of USAMRIID can say unless the military and civilian government has decided to go to war against China. any harmful contagious disease or even non-contagious lethal disease can be used as a biological weapon - the this has not been all that unheard of in the USA. Some cult in the N.E. tried to eliminate voters to take over in the Northeastern USA a few decades ago. There have been other small scale biological attacks - and lethally.

I'm not going to debate your love and defense of China's biological warfare laboratory. Rather, I am using covid-19 as an example of how biological weapons can be used against an adversary massively harming the adversary with little risk and even benefit to the attacker. Far more Chinese visit the USA than Americans visit China - and China can far more deal with a disease outbreak being a merciless and murderous government if determined necessary.

 

[Dayton3]

I was referring to the ones put in ICBMs

Yes there are lower yield devices used in things like nuclear depth charges.

Actually there are some far, far smaller than that. Some nuclear demolition charges have yields of only 100 tons of TNT (0.1 kiloton).

In the U.S. sometimes called "suitcase nukes" due to their basic appearance though in this case the "suitcase" weighs over 100 lbs. The Soviet built version was larger and looked like a college dorm refrigerator.

 

[joko104]

But COVID-19 is too weak to be a weapon and if it was, why originate it in China ?



And China would stand to lose $billions of exports to North America and Europe




So what, you can't tailor a virus to kill people in one country and not another

A man-made virus might not just kill the elderly and sick, it might kill 90% of all infants.
And make 90% of men infertile

Bio weapons are way too dangerous and unpredictable as to how they might spread and mutate.

There is a contagious disease in China that sterilized men - so far at least 3000 - with little symptoms. But, like covid-19, China assures that it poises no risk to other countries. It is not that difficult to learn who a natural or evolved gain-of-function disease will most likely kill and the most likely effect.

What you are doing is denying the existence of biological weapons, since all are "natural diseases." There is no ability to create a new disease, only produce huge amounts of existing ones knowing they do evolve and they testing the evolution on other primates in initial testing of the effects. From that, totalitarian governments then test on humans, generally using prisoners. Much of the testing of drugs in the past was on prisoners - usually unknowingly and without public disclosure.

You can drop the ranting tone of your voice. It is counter persuasive.

 

[Rich2018]

There was an incident (I think in the Seven years War) where a British fort commander order that the blankets used in the hospital by smallpox victims, be folded up and left in the forest.

The local (and hostile) Indians took them as they were vastly superior to any cloth they could weave

And the ensuing outbreak of smallpox in the Indian population virtually wiped out a whole tribe.

 

[joko104]

WMD - ?? - LMAO
Yeah . . . sure. There's no better weapon than the one that kills mostly the infirm. The aged and the elderly - the sickly and obese - the ones with preexisting respiratory and coronary conditions. What a stroke of genius! Cull the weakest and make my enemy stronger !!! That aught to teach them!!!

Do you even read what you write?

Do you think about what you write? But since it is YOUR claim, go start a thread on the Covid-19 board and explain your claim that Covid-19 has wonderfully benefited the USA and has made the USA stronger. That's your claim - go start a thread on it.

Try thinking again before jumping into your ranting mode. You are now ON RECORD as claiming covid-19 has greatly benefited the USA and made the USA much stronger as a nation.

 

[Rich2018]

There is a contagious disease in China that sterilized men - so far at least 3000 - with little symptoms. But, like covid-19, China assures that it poises no risk to other countries. It is not that difficult to learn who a natural or evolved gain-of-function disease will most likely kill and the most likely effect.

What you are doing is denying the existence of biological weapons, since all are "natural diseases." There is no ability to create a new disease, only produce huge amounts of existing ones knowing they do evolve and they testing the evolution on other primates in initial testing of the effects. From that, totalitarian governments then test on humans, generally using prisoners. Much of the testing of drugs in the past was on prisoners - usually unknowingly and without public disclosure.

I'm not a chemist, but I'm pretty sure a bio-weapon can be genetically engineered- ie: manufactured.

Genetic engineering and biological weapons - PMC

New technologies, desires and threats from biological research

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[joko104]

There was an incident (I think in the Seven years War) where a British fort commander order that the blankets used in the hospital by smallpox victims, be folded up and left in the forest.

The local (and hostile) Indians took them as they were vastly superior to any cloth they could weave

And the ensuing outbreak of smallpox in the Indian population virtually wiped out a whole tribe.

It did come to be understood that smallpox was exorbitantly lethal to the indigenous peoples of the Americans. EVERY Caribbean island such as Cuba, Haiti - 100% - were killed to 100% total in extinction. Overall, the kill rate in the Americas top to bottom was at least 90%. One reason the Great Plains Native Americans poised such problems included they were so isolated from white people that it was only later their numbers were decimated.

There was an attempt by the Confederacy to used disease as a weapon via blankets, but used blankets from diseased people that was not spread in that way, meaning it failed. Biological warfare was not rare in ancient times. The Japanese used in against the Chinese in WW2.

Contrary to an above poster, ALL biological weapons are natural diseases. What the Wuhan Biological Warfare Lab does is gather and multiple contagious diseases from as many different mammals as possible - and then trying to evolve them to be highly contagious and lethal to humans - ideally in predictable ways. But putting such different diseased species together, this may allow the evolution of such diseases - or even just massively duplicating (breeding) the diseases that tend to have very short life cycles so evolve very quickly. Chemicals, temperature and radiation also can be used to create new strains of existing natural diseases - such they are claiming already has happened to covid-19.

The sought after Holy Grail is seeking biological weapons that target people of a certain race or ethnicity because this would allow attacking with it (covertly or overtly) with little risk to your own population if it predominately is not of the vulnerable race but the enemy is. For example, a disease such as a virus that easily infects lethally white people, but not Asians, would be infinitely safer for China to use than nuclear or chemical weapons - assuring WMD retaliation. If I am not mistake, the USA did such research in the opposite direction. However, ALL biological warfare labs and study were worldwide outlawed - until Dr. Anthony Fauci' successfully lobbied for the ban to be lifted specifically for a few locations - most notable is the Wuhan Virus Lab specifically for "gain of function" research. That specifically means development of or finding natural diseases to use as biological weapons.

 

[joko104]

I'm not a chemist, but I'm pretty sure a bio-weapon can be genetically engineered- ie: manufactured.

Genetic engineering and biological weapons - PMC

New technologies, desires and threats from biological research

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think it is impossible for humans to create any new life form from scratch our of lifelessness. However, as I stated, already existing diseases (micro-organisms) can be "engineered," ie created and then massively duplicated. I used to be rather up on such topics, but its been years.

 

[Questerr]

No. Your question is nonsensical - as rational as claiming there has never been a firebombing attack - unless claiming the California wildfires were an act of war by a foreign country.

You are just wrong claiming natural diseases are not biological weapons. The most known and has been used as a biological weapon is anthrax.

"Anthrax has been used as a bio-weapon for about a century mixed with powders, sprays, food and water."

The world’s most dangerous bioweapons

www.army-technology.com

.

The above link lists other natural diseases of biological weapons potential. Natural diseases have been used as biological weapons dates 3500 years ago as the first WMD.

The world’s most dangerous bioweapons

www.army-technology.com

.

There is nothing else a member of USAMRIID can say unless the military and civilian government has decided to go to war against China. any harmful contagious disease or even non-contagious lethal disease can be used as a biological weapon - the this has not been all that unheard of in the USA. Some cult in the N.E. tried to eliminate voters to take over in the Northeastern USA a few decades ago. There have been other small scale biological attacks - and lethally.

I'm not going to debate your love and defense of China's biological warfare laboratory. Rather, I am using covid-19 as an example of how biological weapons can be used against an adversary massively harming the adversary with little risk and even benefit to the attacker. Far more Chinese visit the USA than Americans visit China - and China can far more deal with a disease outbreak being a merciless and murderous government if determined necessary.

If an anthrax outbreak occurs anywhere in the world that’s an act of biological warfare? That’s what you are claiming?

Natural diseases can be used as a biological weapon but doing so requires human agency behind the use. USAMRIID has definitively confirmed that no human agent was being Covid. It’s a 100% natural disease that spread due to natural factors.

So what was the military specialty of your supposed Covid expert? Why won’t you say? Is it because they are clearly someone who would have ****ing clue as to Covid’s origins?

The 1918 Flu Pandemic originated in the United States. Should the 20 million people it killed be considered the result of a US biological attack on the world?