Which Side Is It That Wants to Subvert Democracy

[Cameron]

Everything the left have been accusing Trump and the right of for four solid years is what they want to do themselves!

In other words, Trump set a precedent and got what he wanted, and now Democrats will follow that precedent. If you don't like it maybe you guys shouldn't have done it first.

 

[eohrnberger]

The 'establishment media' is right of center on almost everything. They absolutely hate progressives and do the work of Republicans in demonizing progressives.

The 'bubble' speaks in your words. The 'establishment media' significantly left of center in their political bias.

The Media Bubble Is Worse Than You Think
We crunched the data on where journalists work and how fast it’s changing. The results should worry you.​

This is the worst kind of reasoning imaginable. One side of the political spectrum engages in the most egregious efforts of deceit, so of course its going to fall along political affiliation lines. If one sports team scores 100 points, and the other team scores 5, the goal of the referee is not to split the difference and call the game a tie.

Ignoring the politically selective censorship on social media?

All that would be required would be the non-politically biased application of their own rules and policies, but that's what they are doing, as shown.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

It is not reasonable to assume that 90% or greater negative news coverage of the administration and the president is not politically biased.
Especially when also considering 3 Middle East peace deals, 3 Nobel peace prize nominations, and a strong economy, one that had the first middle class wage increases in decades.

Where did I say that media has been consistently (or even 90%) unbiased? That’s right, nowhere.

Trump’s Middle East “deals” between countries not at war (two of the three had never been at war, and the third hadn’t been involved militarily with Israel since 1967) were more of a dog and pony show, and not very significant.

Trump's Mideast deals tout 'peace' where there was never war

JERUSALEM (AP) — For the first time in more than a quarter-century, a U.S. president will host a signing ceremony between Israelis and Arabs at the White House, billing it as an "historic breakthrough" in a region long known for its stubborn conflicts.

apnews.com

Sudan-Israel relations agreed, Donald Trump announces

Sudan becomes the third Arab country in weeks to agree to normalise ties with its historical foe.

www.bbc.com

Certainly not as significant as Trump’s foolish gift to his BFF, and fellow indictee, Netanyahu of formally recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. That move effectively ended peace negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians, at least for the foreseeable future, and angered virtually every one of our allies and Arab state governments.

Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital, reversing longtime U.S. policy

President Donald Trump on Wednesday reversed decades of U.S. policy and recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, imperiling Middle East peace efforts and upsetting the Arab world and Western allies alike.

www.reuters.com

As for the Nobel nominations, any federal official can nominate anyone they choose. That means literally thousands of officials around the world can nominate anyone they want.

Taken from the Nobel committee website; “Any person or organization can be nominated by anyone eligible to nominate,” the committee states. The Norwegian Nobel Committee has no input into submissions, though it decides who actually wins the prize. “To simply be nominated is therefore not an endorsement or extended honour to imply affiliation with the Nobel Peace Prize or its related institutions”.

Two of Trump’s three nominations have come from far right wing Norwegian politician Tybring-Gjedde. A true “brother from another mother” who is known for being pro-Israel and for opposing immigration policies that he thinks have been too welcoming. He called Muslim headscarves an “Islamic uniform” and compared them to robes worn by members of the Ku Klux Klan.

The current nomination comes from four Australian law professors.

I won’t even address Trump’s pleading with Abe to nominate him.

Trump Nobel Peace Prize nomination - what you need to know

For the second time the US president gets a nod for the coveted award - but we won't know if he wins for a year.

www.bbc.com

Far-right Norwegian lawmaker nominates Trump for Nobel Peace Prize

A far-right Norwegian lawmaker says he has nominated U.S. President Donald Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in the Middle East.

www.pbs.org

Trump nominated a third time for Nobel Peace Prize

President Trump has received a third nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize.

thehill.com

No need for Shinzo Abe: Trump already nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe is not saying whether or not he nominated Donald Trump for this year's Nobel Peace Prize, but the question may be moot: the U.S. president has been put forward by others for the prestigious award.

www.reuters.com

Trump’s “booming economy” has been built largely on the backs of our descendants. There is no genius or courage involved in sacrificing natural resources and blowing up the national debt by over $2T with his tax law. You know, the tax law that gave huge permanent breaks to the richest Americans while only giving crumbs to average Americans that expire in 2025?

True to traditional Republican tax strategies, the people who disproportionately gain the most are the folks who spend their leisure time at Mar-a-lago.

How a Trump Tax Break to Help Poor Communities Became a Windfall for the Rich (Published 2019)

Opportunity zones were created as part of the Trump tax law to lure investment to distressed areas. But much of the money is fueling real-estate developments targeting the affluent.

www.nytimes.com

US deficit hits nearly $1 trillion. When will it matter?

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration reported a river of red ink Friday. The federal deficit for the 2019 budget year surged 26% from 2018 to $984.4 billion — its highest point in seven years.

apnews.com

Trump Tax Cuts Helped Billionaires Pay Less Taxes Than The Working Class In 2018

For the first time ever, America’s 400 wealthiest people paid a lower tax rate in 2018 than any other group of people, according to a new study completed by economists Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman.

www.forbes.com

 

[Deuce]

If by "lately" you mean like 2 seconds ago, sure. Oh wait...it just reset...ok, now we're good again...wait...it just reset again.

Pathetic flailing from the guy whose side is, again, LITERALLY TRYING TO THROW OUT AN ENTIRE STATE ELECTION

 

[Fishking]

Pathetic flailing from the guy whose side is, again, LITERALLY TRYING TO THROW OUT AN ENTIRE STATE ELECTION

No one is trying to throw out a state's election. They want recounts with proper supervision for all party interests.

 

[Deuce]

No one is trying to throw out a state's election. They want recounts with proper supervision for all party interests.

They petitioned in Pennsylvania that the entire election was unconstitutional under the equal protection clause.

When that got laughed the **** out of court, they then tried to just get every single vote in Biden-lead counties thrown out.

‘If that isn’t unamerican, nothing is.

 

[Elmo]

That'd be projection. I've not called the election invalid. I call for investigation of troubling irregularities, and for their hearing in court. That is presently underway.



See my statement above.

You haven't called it invalid, and I never claimed you did. Trump, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, has called it invalid repeatedly. He's not waiting for the investigations and court cases to finish. He is simply assuming it's invalid because he lost. The claims of the POTUS have far more weight than us random internet posters. And far more potential to cause damage

Again, the establishment media reporting the facts that support their political narrative and not reporting the facts the do not is 1/2 the facts, and also half truths, and is political propaganda.



Twitters enforcement of their 'hacked materials' policy is a complete jokes as it falls right along political affiliation lines.




I have not cited any statement from Giuliani. Please see https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...s-to-subvert-democracy.429005/post-1072994091 about the buble you are living in.



So your position is that the establishment media and social media are not able to influence elections?

The media reports facts. Here is what I have seen happen repeatedly:
1. Right wing echo chambers lie/exaggerate to support their conspiracy theories. They manufacture some story that would look bad for their political opponents if it had a basis in reality.
2. The media doesn't give those stories any attention because the obvious bullshit IS NOT WORTHY of attention.
3. The right complains that the media is only showing half the facts.

No. Just no. The conspiracy theories being pushed by the right are not facts.

 

[Elmo]

No one is trying to throw out a state's election. They want recounts with proper supervision for all party interests.

Trump is trying to throw out the election. He's getting his recounts and his court hearings. He should be patiently waiting for those results. Instead, he's screaming to the masses about nonexistent fraud and corruption. He knows he's going to lose in the recounts and lose in the courts, so he's trying to incite his supporters instead.

 

[ludin]

Not really, Trump was just a horrible President and Biden has won the 2020 election. Now the Right is out there slinging disinformation and lies about massive fraud in an attempt to undermine our elections. No one wanted to be a dictator more than Trump and he's showing that now as he tries to throw our democracy into turmoil for the sake of his own ego.

you guys did it for 4 years now you want to try about it when it backfires?

no sympathy.

you leftists spent 4 years throwing our democracy into turmoil. so evidently it is ok as long as you are a leftists.

the leftists hypocrisy is an amazing thing.

 

[ludin]

Not really, and never on the level we're seeing now from the Right. No matter what you try to say, it's clear for all to see that currently it's the Right that is trying to undermine American democracy for the sake of their Dear Leader. That's just a fact.

your projection of what you do is no one else's issue but yours.

 

[rickc]

Obviously it is the GOP that is trying to subvert the will of the people

And the right wing propaganda machine is hard at work convincing their followers the lies are true

 

[Elmo]

you guys did it for 4 years now you want to try about it when it backfires?

no sympathy.

you leftists spent 4 years throwing our democracy into turmoil. so evidently it is ok as long as you are a leftists.

the leftists hypocrisy is an amazing thing.

Please be specific. What action by the democrats threw our democracy into turmoil?

 

[eohrnberger]

You haven't called it invalid, and I never claimed you did. Trump, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, has called it invalid repeatedly. He's not waiting for the investigations and court cases to finish. He is simply assuming it's invalid because he lost. The claims of the POTUS have far more weight than us random internet posters. And far more potential to cause damage

You really don't think that by now most every reasonable person already knows to discount, i.e. adding a grain of salt, to what this President Tweets?

The media reports facts. Here is what I have seen happen repeatedly:
1. Right Left wing echo chambers lie/exaggerate to support their conspiracy theories. They manufacture some story that would look bad for their political opponents if it had a basis in reality.
2. The media doesn't give those stories any attention because the obvious bullshit IS NOT WORTHY of attention.
3. The right complains that the media is only showing half the facts.

No. Just no. The conspiracy theories being pushed by the right are not facts.

Here, fixed it for you. Or have you forgotten the numerous 'anonymous' sourced reports intended and designed to discredit the President and his administration, which, in the end, turn out to be complete nothingburgers?

How often do some need to repeat the circle before they've learned?

1. Some claimed 'anonymous sourced' story is reported, designed to generate fauxrage
2. All the media outlets crib from each other, because they are all using the exact same verbiage and wording
3. It virally spreads being re-Tweeted share on Facebook
4. As intended and designed the political left of the electorate flies into a hair on fire fauxrage
5. After about 24 to 72 hours, sometimes longer, the other 1/2 of the story comes out and ends up being no big deal
6. The media, having flooded the airwaves, social media, and broadcasts in step #2, the retraction / correction ends up on the back page
7. The Tweeters and Facebookers never retract anything, so the narrative lives on in those spaces
8. Rinse, lather, repeat for the following week

How often to some need to repeat ridiculous left circle jerk before they've learned?

Many have in fact recognized this circle jerk, and it reflects in the trust and credibility poll results on the media.

Americans Remain Distrustful of Mass Media

Poll Shows Growing Distrust of Media Among Americans
More than two-thirds of respondents said they are concerned about bias in the news other people are getting, while less than a third said they worry about their own preferred sources being biased.

The media have destroyed the trust of the electorate, and their credibility along with it with creating this left circle jerk pattern.

Put it another way.
If this president and this administration were guilty of even 1/2 of the things that the left has accused them of, do you really think that they all wouldn't have been arrested, charged and convicted by now?

It would appear that you have extremely little faith in the American institutions of DOJ and FBI, is that's the case.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

and be a dictatorship? Which side is it we have to fear? Which side is corrupt? Which side is that is going to bring on a Constitutional crisis?

First it was Democrats wanting to end the filibuster and stack the court if they took over the Senate and now they are talking about bypassing Congress to appoint Cabinet members.

A report card on the Trump administration

Thank goodness he’s not getting another 4 years. It would take 20 to fix the damage. I think the civilized world is giving us a mulligan on this one. All we can hope for is that Trump's supporters don't pick another ignorant jerk to represent them. Right now Trump is doing Putin's bidding. He...

debatepolitics.com

The truth about the Trump administration, and Trump's fan like this guy completely ignore the thread.

In fact, Trump's fans, like this guy, largely ignore Trump. They like to talk about Democrats.

Like this guy.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Trump is a very sick man, which explains why his supporters ignore him.

This is a statement from our President.

"He won because the Election was Rigged. NO VOTE WATCHERS OR OBSERVERS allowed, vote tabulated by a Radical Left privately owned company, Dominion, with a bad reputation & bum equipment that couldn’t even qualify for Texas (which I won by a lot!), the Fake & Silent Media, & more!"

Less than two hours later Trump reversed himself, insisting that “I concede NOTHING! We have a long way to go.”

The sick man virtually stands alone in this assessment, and he is unable to substantiate what he says because there is no substantiation. He keeps saying the same thing over and over again without offering proof for what he is saying. That is a sign of a serious mental disorder.

Moreover, what little he does say concerning fraud is rebuffed by his own administration. Also, there is a growing number of top Republicans who are taking issue with Trump's insane posture. They urged Trump on Sunday to allow for an orderly Presidential transition.

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results

On the other hand, as Trump is tearing our country apart, it could easily be argued that Trump is doing Putin's bidding. The Russian dictator wanted Trump to be our President for a reason.

This source aided in this report: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/1...ump-continues-spreading-baseless-fraud-claims

Watch, not one of Trump's followers will defend him. They can't. They don't know how.

We cannot allow these people to choose our President again!

 

[ludin]

Please be specific. What action by the democrats threw our democracy into turmoil?

the fact you don't know is no surprise.
lets start with the coup to unseat a duly elected president.

next move on to bogus impeachment hearings in which no witness had any evidence and the released transcript showed no wrong doing.

the fact you don't know this goes back to what i said.

leftists never have a clue about what they are talking about.

 

[Ikari]

you guys did it for 4 years now you want to try about it when it backfires?

no sympathy.

you leftists spent 4 years throwing our democracy into turmoil. so evidently it is ok as long as you are a leftists.

the leftists hypocrisy is an amazing thing.

lol

Only one side here is trying to overthrow a fair election, and it ain't the left, komrad.

 

[Elmo]

the fact you don't know is no surprise.
lets start with the coup to unseat a duly elected president.

next move on to bogus impeachment hearings in which no witness had any evidence and the released transcript showed no wrong doing.

Oh I know exactly what happened, I just happen to be grounded in reality so I also know it wasn't anything wrong or unethical. Both the Mueller investigation and the impeachment were necessary acts to PROTECT our democracy and institutions from Trump's corruption. They were entirely within the law and spirit of the constitution. If you consider such acts a "coup" you have clearly gone off the deep end.

 

[eohrnberger]

the fact you don't know is no surprise.
lets start with the coup to unseat a duly elected president.

next move on to bogus impeachment hearings in which no witness had any evidence and the released transcript showed no wrong doing.

the fact you don't know this goes back to what i said.

leftists never have a clue about what they are talking about.

Could add to that the politicization of federal agencies by a President and his administration for use as political weapons, and for use as political weapons against political opponent's presidential campaign.

And also add to that the bifurcation of investigative procedures and the bifurcation of justice along political party lines.

 

[eohrnberger]

Oh I know exactly what happened, I just happen to be grounded in reality so I also know it wasn't anything wrong or unethical. Both the Mueller investigation and the impeachment were necessary acts to PROTECT our democracy and institutions from Trump's corruption. They were entirely within the law and spirit of the constitution. If you consider such acts a "coup" you have clearly gone off the deep end.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office gathered evidence suggesting that Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee launched a political "smear job" in spring 2016 tying Donald Trump to Russia collusion through the lobbying work of his campaign chairman Paul Manafort in Ukraine, according to memos that were excluded from the prosecutor's final report.

The evidence, reviewed by Just the News, includes information obtained by State Department officials from a trusted Ukrainian source, a private investigator's report, and an email exchange suggesting Tony Podesta — a Manafort business associate and brother of Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta — tried at one point to slow down the opposition research project.

The evidence — which is additional to records showing the law firm for the Clinton campaign and the DNC funded the infamous "Steele dossier" given to the FBI — was never mentioned in last year's vast, two-volume Mueller Report, which concluded that no Americans colluded with Russia to influence the 2016 election.
Mueller gathered evidence suggesting DNC, Clinton camp manufactured Russia collusion story

Let's see here.
The Mueller investigation knew very early on that the 'Steel Dossier' was little more than a fabrication, and yet continued their investigation for 3+ years and $40M.
That sounds more like being accomplices in a political smear job rather than what you would think that a Special Counsel should be doing with a case of such gravity.

Look further into Mueller's investigation, you wonder if threatening family members of a subject isn't prosecutorial malfeasance. (1 next post)

Look even further into Mueller's investigation you find that the Oval Office was fully aware the use of, and made the suggested use of, the unconstitutional Logan Act, and in this particular case, that charge is a fabricated. (2 nest post)

Mueller and his primary henchman, Weissmann, and the other Clintonites on that team weren't doing any 'protect the Constitution', they were complicite in an orchestrated political smear job using their federal powers, so abuse of government power.

Going further back, we can find that the FBI used the same Steel dossier fabrication to falsely FISA warrants, based on falsified evidence no less (3 next post), to spy on a political opponent's presidential campaign. So that'd be not only manufacturing false evidence but also committing fraud on the FISA court. Neither of which falls in the category of 'protecting the Constitution' and does fall within government abuse of power, if not a number of other criminal charges.

Yes, the DC bureaucracy and the political elite are this badly broken and this badly corrupt.

If you continue to dig, there's even more criminality and malfeasance in the cesspool of DC bureaucracy and the political elite which man it.

But beware, it's swallowing the red pill.

 

[Geoist]

and be a dictatorship? Which side is it we have to fear? Which side is corrupt? Which side is that is going to bring on a Constitutional crisis?

First it was Democrats wanting to end the filibuster and stack the court if they took over the Senate and now they are talking about bypassing Congress to appoint Cabinet members.

Just Skip The Senate To Install A Cabinet, Progressives Urge Joe Biden

Activists are urging the president-elect to look closely at a 1998 law called the Vacancy Act.

www.yahoo.com

Didn't Obama already try this and the Supreme Court ruled 9-0 that he abused his power in filling vacancies?

Everything the left have been accusing Trump and the right of for four solid years is what they want to do themselves!

You obviously have no clue what a Dictatorship is.

 

[eohrnberger]

1. The first involves the factual basis for the Obama-era FBI’s investigation of Flynn — or, rather, the lack of a basis. Under federal law, a false statement made to investigators is actionable only if it is material to the matter under investigation. If there was no basis to believe Flynn had committed a crime, his counsel could have argued that any false statements allegedly made by Flynn when he was questioned in January 2017 were immaterial. Ergo, Ms. Powell contends that the withholding of this information violated the government’s duty to disclose exculpatory evidence.
   Instead, they maintain that Flynn was coerced into pleading guilty nearly a year later by special counsel Robert Mueller’s team of hyper-aggressive prosecutors. Prosecutors did this, Powell argues, by threatening that if he refused to plead, they would prosecute his son.
   

   

   Something seems rotten in Flynn’s case — and maybe others, too

   What we didn’t know until now about the former national security adviser’s plea agreement hurt justice, possibly for all.

   thehill.com

   
   

2. In recent days, Flynn’s lawyers released notes, apparently taken by former FBI deputy assistant director Peter Strzok, about the meeting. The notes are cryptic — and Strzok’s lawyer told The Fact Checker that Strzok did not attend the meeting. So that means the notes may recount what someone else — perhaps Comey — told him about the meeting.
   Who was at the meeting?
   Initially, CIA Director John Brennan and Director of National Intelligence (DNI) James R. Clapper Jr., along with Yates and Comey, were part of the briefing, which was given to Obama, Biden and Rice. When it was over, Obama asked Comey and Yates to stay behind, along with Biden and Rice.
   

   https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/26/michael-flynn-barack-obama-trumps-claims-treason/

   
   
3. FBI Attorney to Plead Guilty to Falsifying FISA Warrant Against ...
   www.rnla.org › fbi_attorney_to_plead_guilty_to_falsif...
   Aug 14, 2020 — Today a former top FBI lawyer plead GUILTY to falsifying documents in ... FBI official working for Comey who doctored FISA court docs & spied ...

 

[ludin]

Could add to that the politicization of federal agencies by a President and his administration for use as political weapons, and for use as political weapons against political opponent's presidential campaign.

And also add to that the bifurcation of investigative procedures and the bifurcation of justice along political party lines.

It is pretty sickening how corrupt washington is that this was allowed to go on.

now i just read an article that the Biden IRS could turn over trumps tax returns to congress.
this would be a huge violation is a private citizens rights and protections afforded to them by law.

There is a reason that tax returns are private so that the very things we are discussing cannot happen.
yet here we are. If biden follows through with this then no one is safe from government persecution or targeting.

It is a direct violation of our freedom and privacy to be protected from government.

PS the reason they don't know is that they don't want t know. To be a leftist means to ignore all facts, logic and reason.
what you feel is the only correct thing even when they are proven 100% wrong.

 

[ludin]

You obviously have no clue what a Dictatorship is.

He just showed you.
Obviously you don't know what a dictator is.

 

[Geoist]

He just showed you.

No, he did not.

Obviously you don't know what a dictator is.

I teach this shit, so forgive me for laughing at your ignorant post.