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Which of these is an "effective ban on all abortions"?

Which of these deadlines is an "effective ban on all abortions"?

  • Total voters
    8
AGENT J said:
thats not how it always works though
if i find somebody who broke into my house while im home and shoot them, most consider that a reasonable threat but maybe they only wanted my lucky charms and had no want to harm me
Im not sayign i want that change, i support that, just saying theres nothing really proven in that matter besides where that person was, in my home
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There is a risk of death in transportation yet we routinely force people into all sorts of modes of transportation. Now if we could teleport.....

AGENT J said:
2 options one MUST do by force rather than 3 options of choice . . ill stick with the later
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That's all you have now, you are artificially claiming force. The magic womb transfer(tm) would render the abortion procedure antiquated and you could no more choose it than you could choose to have blood letting as a procedure to help your high blood pressure
 
Crovax said:
That's all you have now, you are artificially claiming force.
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its not artificial though, thats just your feelings
it still life vs life and i said with the current league. human, civil and equal rights of the born viable woman vs the unviable unknonw
Crovax said:
The magic womb transfer(tm) would render the abortion procedure antiquated and you could no more choose it than you could choose to have blood letting as a procedure to help your high blood pressure
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but it wouldn't in reality
unless again we create teleportation and it was magically no risk
"The magic womb transfer(tm)" isnt gonna change it for me . . . until you also invent the "Tantalizing Teleportation Method" also lol
 
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Josie said:
There’s no reason to kill a normally-developing 28, 30, 32 week fetus. They can survive.
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And no one does. Women dont abort healthy viable fetuses...the implied lie falls out of the mouths of low-information pro-lifers like drool.

If you believe otherwise, feel free to show the data (of course it's possible a woman might have the medical emergency but aside from that, of course they dont have them).
 
Crovax said:
There is a risk of death in transportation yet we routinely force people into all sorts of modes of transportation. Now if we could teleport.....
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When do we do that? I dont believe that's true.
 
AGENT J said:
I could never support 12 without a boatload of exceptions that makes it irrelevant. Just too early IMO. I'd have to look but i think there was info posted here of many women not knowing they were pregnant till like 10-12 weeks These were women on BC, especially BC that ends their period or make it very irregular etc so just not having a period or missing one is not a sign. it's common.
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Women who do not take birth control pills can also have irregular periods. In fact, one reason women take them is to regulate their periods, not try to prevent unwanted pregnancies. (They do this by getting packs of 21 BC pills arranged in three rows of 7 because a normal period is 28 days.) Another reason women may not know they are pregnant during the first trimester is spotting - a small amount of blood coming out for one day. If it happens during pregnancy, she might think it is her period, especially if she normally does not bleed much every month. For these reasons, I agree no abortion ban should begin before the 13th week.

As for exceptions: In addition to incest, rape, and the mom's life, I would also demand allowing them for all mothers under age 18 because they can't drop out of school, life threatening fetal defects, and inseparable conjoined twins.
 
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Patriotic Voter said:
Women who do not take birth control pills can also have irregular periods. In fact, one reason women take them is to regulate their periods, not try to prevent unwanted pregnancies. (They do this by getting packs of 21 BC pills arranged in three rows of 7 because a normal period is 28 days.) Another reason women may not know they are pregnant during the first trimester is spotting - a small amount of blood coming out for one day. If it happens during pregnancy, she might think it is her period, especially if she normally does not bleed much every month. For these reasons, I agree no abortion ban should begin before the 13th week.

As for exceptions: In addition to incest, rape, and the mom's life, I would also demand allowing them for all mothers under age 18 because they can't drop out of school, life threatening fetal defects, and inseparable conjoined twins.
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All very true
 
Josie said:
There’s no reason to kill a normally-developing 28, 30, 32 week fetus. They can survive.
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Even though I would normally agree, I'm not a medical professional with a specialization in obstetrics for difficult cases. Medical professionals have to consider not just the fetus, but the age, size, and other characteristics of the girl or woman involved. In some cases, though rare, I have no doubt that the relative weight of vaginal delivery, Caesarian, and abortion is a problem in a life-threatening situation for the girl or woman.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
Then it would be first degree murder because the offspring is a baby, not a fetus.

Of course that never happens.
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What meaningful difference is there one second before birth, and one second after?
 
Tlrmln said:
No I don't. I don't think there's a meaningful difference. I'm asking you for what you think it is.
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I don't think. I know. If you don't know, you never graduated from high school. The difference obviously is only BORN humans have the right to life.
 
Crovax said:
Here's where my number came from

"The majority of abortions in 2019 took place early in gestation: 92.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation"

CDCs Abortion Surveillance System FAQs | CDC

CDCs Abortion Surveillance System Frequently Asked Questions
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

I think 12 weeks looks like a good number with an exception for rape and health of the mother
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Why 12 and not 24?
 
Patriotic Voter said:
I don't think. I know. If you don't know, you never graduated from high school. The difference obviously is only BORN humans have the right to life.
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Says who? And what does the "right to life" have to do with anything? We can certainly ban behaviors that don't implicate the supposed "right to life."

I asked for a meaningful difference and you spouted a platitude, in conversation about the way things SHOULD be no less.
 
Tlrmln said:
Says who? And what does the "right to life" have to do with anything? We can certainly ban behaviors that don't implicate the supposed "right to life."

I asked for a meaningful difference and you spouted a platitude, in conversation about the way things SHOULD be no less.
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The government, that's who. Read the 14th Amendment. It cannot be more clear than that with the word BORN.

If you graduated from high school, you already knew this, because government is a required class in 12th grade.

The meaningful difference is the law. Abortion rights are legal, period. If you do not understand that, the reason is you don't want to. Federally, what is legal is what should be legal. What is illegal is what should be illegal.
 
Deuce said:
Why 12 and not 24?
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For one thing, if abortions for any reason are allowed in Week 15, women would get them just because they wanted the other sex. I would want that reason for doing it to be outlawed.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
The government, that's who. Read the 14th Amendment. It cannot be more clear than that with the word BORN.
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Ignoring for the moment that your understanding of the 14th Amendment comically wrong, it certainly has nothing to do with whether people should be allowed to have abortions right up until the second of birth.

Patriotic Voter said:
The meaningful difference is the law. Abortion rights are legal, period. If you do not understand that, the reason is you don't want to.
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That's not the law. Many places ban abortion entirely. Many US states prohibit it long before the last second before birth.

Patriotic Voter said:
Federally, what is legal is what should be legal. What is illegal is what should be illegal.
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Nope. The only federal law on abortion is the Supreme Court case law protecting the right to abortion up until viability. Beyond that, what's legal is different in different places.

But of course, this discussion has nothing to do with what IS legal. It's about what SHOULD be legal.
 
Tlrmln said:
Ignoring for the moment that your understanding of the 14th Amendment comically wrong, it certainly has nothing to do with whether people should be allowed to have abortions right up until the second of birth.
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My interpretation of the 14th Amendment would be wrong if its original purpose was the only one that it can be used for. Now that people don't have to be white to be full citizens of the United States, should we just ignore the word born?

Tlrmln said:
That's not the law. Many places ban abortion entirely. Many US states prohibit it long before the last second before birth.
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The second before birth is when the fetus is almost totally out of a mother's body. He/she has already breathed for the first time. So abortion is actually impossible that late. No woman ever wants that to happen anyway.

No place in the United States has a total ban on all abortions. Unless it is explicitly noted, abortion laws posted are always American laws.

Tlrmln said:
Nope. The only federal law on abortion is the Supreme Court case law protecting the right to abortion up until viability. Beyond that, what's legal is different in different places.
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There is also a law that bans "partial birth" abortions. This means the fetus is killed after its head, neck, shoulders, and chest are already out of the mother's body. That inhumane procedure was used during the third trimester. So in the very rare situation where an abortion must be done after the 24th week, the fetus is completely in the uterus when an obstetrician kills him or her. That is not banning abortion itself, just how viable fetuses are aborted during maternal emergencies.

Tlrmln said:
But of course, this discussion has nothing to do with what IS legal. It's about what SHOULD be legal.
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What should be legal: Abortions for any reason up to 14 weeks and medical reasons (both maternal and fetal) between 14 weeks and fetal viability. If the mother has an emergency after 24 weeks, the fetus should become a baby immediately.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
For one thing, if abortions for any reason are allowed in Week 15, women would get them just because they wanted the other sex. I would want that reason for doing it to be outlawed.
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How often does that happen, and why is that an invalid reason vs. "i'm not ready for a child?"
 
Deuce said:
How often does that happen, and why is that an invalid reason vs. "i'm not ready for a child?"
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Women know they are not ready for a child or another child long before the 15th week. That is why most abortions happen before Week 12.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
For one thing, if abortions for any reason are allowed in Week 15, women would get them just because they wanted the other sex. I would want that reason for doing it to be outlawed.
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While I understand the sentiment, I know of a case in which a rape victim who was pro-life but could not stand the fact of the rape pregnancy decided to continue the pregnancy if the fetus was a girl. She was not able to tolerate the possibility of continuance if the fetus carried a y-chromosome from the rapist. I don't know if you'll be able to understand that, but intuitively, I do.
 
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