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Where is the line between teaching tolerance and forcing your beliefs on others?

Datamonkee

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"Allstate terminates manager over homosexuality column
On own time, man posted anti-'gay' article insurance giant says didn't reflect its values "

This was the headline that caught my eye.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961

Here is the article. I didn't want to infringe on any copyright issues, so I did not post the entire article. In a nutshell, the gentleman in question was fired because he felt that Allstate was forcing him to accept a practice that he finds "sinful" according to his belief system. He posted "anti-gay" articles on his own time, from the privacy of his own house, and a "pro-gay" organization put 2 and 2 together and complained about him, leading to his termination. According to his statement, he never mentioned Allstate in any form that would say that he was a spokesperson for the insurance giant, and that the only reason that someone knew he worked there, was because the forum he posted regularly on published his profile with is work title along with the article. http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?storyid=1484
And there is the article he wrote. You won't see Allstate mentioned anywhere.
Do you think Allstate went too far?
 

shh!

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I didn't read your articles, but I would think that is the writer of the articles is anti-homosexual, this might affect his ability /willingness to treat homosexuals fairly, be it for hiring, firing, etc. Allstate is probably concerned about expensive lawsuits being filed against them for wrongful and discriminatory practices.
 

Alex

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The man has a right to his views, but Alstate has a right to employ the kind of people that they want. His right to post his views are not being taken away but Alstate's right to have their own kind of workers would be. They are a private organization and have the right to hire or fire who ever they please just like any private organization has the right to either hire, not hire, or fire gays.
 
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but I would think that is the writer of the articles is anti-homosexual, this might affect his ability /willingness to treat homosexuals fairly, be it for hiring, firing, etc. Allstate is probably concerned about expensive lawsuits being filed against them for wrongful and discriminatory practices.
I would think that if the gay writer of the articles is anti-Christian fundamentalist, as most of us gays and lesbians are, this might affect his ability /willingness to treat Christian fundamentalists fairly, be it for hiring, firing, etc. Allstate is probably concerned about expensive lawsuits being filed against them for wrongful and discriminatory practices.

I would think that is the gay writer of the articles is anti-conservative,, as mos tof us gays and lesbians are, this might affect his ability /willingness to treat conservatives fairly, be it for hiring, firing, etc. Allstate is probably concerned about expensive lawsuits being filed against them for wrongful and discriminatory practices.

I would think that if the gay writer of the articles is anti-heterosexual, this might affect his ability /willingness to treat heterosexuals fairly, be it for hiring, firing, etc. Allstate is probably concerned about expensive lawsuits being filed against them for wrongful and discriminatory practices.

I would think that is the black writer of the articles is anti-white, this might affect his ability /willingness to treat whites fairly, be it for hiring, firing, etc. Allstate is probably concerned about expensive lawsuits being filed against them for wrongful and discriminatory practices.

In this light, do you see now how stupid your flimsly justifcation seems? Using your rule, one who is against anything should be fired for just being against something....Businesses who are gay can discriminate now against heterosexual employees, and straight businesses can discriminate against gays because the gays might have their ability/willingness to treat straights fairly affected!

I might be a flaming, screaming militant queer, but geez, people have a right to think, say and feel what they want!

I am sure a conservative legal foundation will pick this case up pro bono and Allstate WILL go down in flames.....
 
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Schweddy

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alex said:
The man has a right to his views, but Alstate has a right to employ the kind of people that they want. His right to post his views are not being taken away but Alstate's right to have their own kind of workers would be. They are a private organization and have the right to hire or fire who ever they please just like any private organization has the right to either hire, not hire, or fire gays.
Personally, I hope he sues and wins a nice settlement. What he does outside of his workplace should have no bearing on his employment. Especially since he did not mention as much in his editorial.

This is akin to firing a person because they go to gay bars after work.
 

ElGringo17

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No, it is more like firing a person because they go to heterosexual bars after work.

After all, this is another typical example in a long list of how heterosexuals are persecuted because they politically oppose the homosexual agenda.
 

JustineCredible

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alex said:
The man has a right to his views, but Alstate has a right to employ the kind of people that they want. His right to post his views are not being taken away but Alstate's right to have their own kind of workers would be. They are a private organization and have the right to hire or fire who ever they please just like any private organization has the right to either hire, not hire, or fire gays.
Actually firing and hiring practices based on Sexual Orientation, gender, age, physical ability (granted within reasonable limitations) and race is left up to the state in which the business is practicing.

Allstate's home offices are located in Northbrook, Illinois. Illinois just passed legislation adding "sexual orientation" to their state's constitutional "Anti-Discrimination Act," which already included everything else but sexual orientation. The new addition to the laws took affect June 1, 2005.
 

Schweddy

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JustineCredible said:
Actually firing and hiring practices based on Sexual Orientation, gender, age, physical ability (granted within reasonable limitations) and race is left up to the state in which the business is practicing.

Allstate's home offices are located in Northbrook, Illinois. Illinois just passed legislation adding "sexual orientation" to their state's constitutional "Anti-Discrimination Act," which already included everything else but sexual orientation. The new addition to the laws took affect June 1, 2005.
Isn't there a distinct difference between writing an editoral about your thoughts than acting on it in the workplace? I would think of that as freedom of speech.
 

JustineCredible

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vauge said:
Isn't there a distinct difference between writing an editoral about your thoughts than acting on it in the workplace? I would think of that as freedom of speech.

Whoa, where did I say anything to the contrary?

If the man in question only wrote an editorial about his dislike of the practice then firing him would be abuse of his employers power, yes. But...one must also understand that Illinois is an "at will" employment state. Meaning Allstate can fire anyone at any time without notice. If the man in question has proof that Allstate did infact fire him utilizing cause, he must also be prepaired to prove what that cause was.

Granted, at this time, I have not read the article in question. I shall do so before going any further with this discussion.
 

ElGringo17

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Justine, it would appear based upon your offensive avatar that you are intolerant and bigoted against religious people....
 

JustineCredible

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ElGringo17 said:
Justine, it would appear based upon your offensive avatar that you are intolerant and bigoted against religious people....
It may be offencive to you, but it's still my right to use it. If the administration of this website were to ask me to change it or be banned, I would change it.

But just being offencive to you, who has been banned several times over but has continued to show an overly abundant obcession for this website, really doesn't impress me much.
 

JustineCredible

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JustineCredible said:
Whoa, where did I say anything to the contrary?

If the man in question only wrote an editorial about his dislike of the practice then firing him would be abuse of his employers power, yes. But...one must also understand that Illinois is an "at will" employment state. Meaning Allstate can fire anyone at any time without notice. If the man in question has proof that Allstate did infact fire him utilizing cause, he must also be prepaired to prove what that cause was.

Granted, at this time, I have not read the article in question. I shall do so before going any further with this discussion.

O.K., I read the article and even though I personally would have been offended by Max's posting, I do believe Allstate was remiss in firing him.
He did state that the posting was written at his own residence, on his own time, on his own computer.
He did not attach that he was employed by Allstate, but rather the website in which he submitted the article to added it in his bio, without his consent.

Allstate did in fact admit to firing him because of the article, which was their mistake.

Even though I don't agree with this guys attitude toward gays and gay marriage, I do agree that Allstate was definitely in the wrong for firing him because of his views.
 

Schweddy

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Yep, I thought we would agree on this one.

Texas has a "right to work" state as well and can be fired for any reason.
But, I think Allstate is gunna loose some money on this one. I would not doubt the ACLU will get involved as well.
 

JustineCredible

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vauge said:
Yep, I thought we would agree on this one.

Texas has a "right to work" state as well and can be fired for any reason.
But, I think Allstate is gunna loose some money on this one. I would not doubt the ACLU will get involved as well.
But on which side of the debate? That's the real question here.

I really do agree, Allstate screwed up big time.
Honestly, I hope that the ACLU gets involved on Max's side on this one.
 

Schweddy

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I think we agree that Allstate screwed up.

As far as what SOME of what Max said - I think we would still disagree.
 

Naughty Nurse

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Well, although I think (of course!) that the guy sounds like a complete moron, I don't think he should have lost his job.


One thing I found interesting - he states that god did not intend the human anatomy to be used for male gay sex, and yet he is a professional boxer. Human anatomy is clearly NOT designed to be used in that way. Double standards?
 

Datamonkee

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It is not mentioned in either article what group complained about him. And the website that he posted on, posted the information about his employment without his consent. Guess you can't trust "christian" websites either?
 

shuamort

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Ahh, journalism at its finest, thank you World Net Daily:
According to an investigation by the state of Illinois' Department of Employment Security related to Barber's claim for unemployment benefits, an organization – likely a "gay"-rights group – complained to Allstate about the column.
We don't have any facts to back up our claim, but let us go ahead and publish it anyway. :roll:

The guy's a jerk and Allstate can fire at will on any basis that they chose. Of course, if this J. Matt Barber wants to turn around and sue his employer, go for it (and suing an insurance company? good luck with that :roll: ).
The training, Barber says, "is really indoctrination hostile toward thousands of employees' Christian beliefs."
Really? Is that why he stayed there so long?
Allstate was fully aware of our new arrival and that Sarah was still recovering from her C-section surgery when they callously snatched away both our medical insurance and our means of providing for our young family.
Well, there's always COBRA, and boxing, and writing really unintelligent drivel to sell.

Barber says he did not include that fact in the original column submission but that the site "disclosed that without my knowledge or consent."
Yeah, they just "happened" to know where he was employed and wait he did without him ever telling anyone. Puh-leeze.
The columnist told WND even if he had included a reference to Allstate in his bio, "I wasn't intimating that I was representing Allstate or that these were the views of Allstate."
Well, play with the bull, get the horns and such and so on. At some point in time he mentioned to one of these publishers in his bio line. I can completely see why Allstate would want to distance themselves from a fool like this person.

Yeah, it sucks that he was axed for his activities off of company time, but since his article could have sullied his employer's reputation and there is at will employment in Illinois, he doesn't really have a leg to stand on.
 

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Let me first begin by saying I just read the article and I in no way agree with this man. In fact, he is an idiot in my opinion. However, he was on his own time, on his own computer, and espousing his beliefs, which he has a right to do. Further, he was promoting his beliefs in a forum that was friendly to his beliefs.

I work for a conservative company in Anchorage Alaska. Now, I am not going to name that company simply because it has no bearing on this forum. However, if in passing I did mention that I work for this small, conservative company, I would expect my company to back me up and not attack me for what I do off the job. The merit of my work makes me more valuable than to get rid of my for what I do in my private life. I believe thats just logic in any case.

So this leads to my point: Either Allstate isnt that great a company to work for or the man was obviously skating on thin ice anyway and this was the excuse. Besides, I find it hard to believe that an activist group targeted this average joe for a web posting unless he had already drawn some attention to himself. Any thoughts?
 

ElGringo17

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Yeah, I have been the repeated victim of homosexual extremists perpetrating homosexist, anti-heterosexual hates crimes against me.....yet I have found that homosexual bigots will attempt to discount the fact that I have been victimized by homosexuals trying to silence me.
 

Datamonkee

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I'd say he had. He was very vocal with several conservative forums on the issue. But turn about is fair play, I think, he said that Allstate enjoyed a free plug during his boxing matches. He was/is a champion boxer. He allowed them to use his name to pummel the daylights out of someone, but they didn't back him when he verbally pummeled the gay community. Little on the double standard there, I think.
 

Navy Pride

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Datamonkee said:
"Allstate terminates manager over homosexuality column
On own time, man posted anti-'gay' article insurance giant says didn't reflect its values "

This was the headline that caught my eye.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961

Here is the article. I didn't want to infringe on any copyright issues, so I did not post the entire article. In a nutshell, the gentleman in question was fired because he felt that Allstate was forcing him to accept a practice that he finds "sinful" according to his belief system. He posted "anti-gay" articles on his own time, from the privacy of his own house, and a "pro-gay" organization put 2 and 2 together and complained about him, leading to his termination. According to his statement, he never mentioned Allstate in any form that would say that he was a spokesperson for the insurance giant, and that the only reason that someone knew he worked there, was because the forum he posted regularly on published his profile with is work title along with the article. http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?storyid=1484
And there is the article he wrote. You won't see Allstate mentioned anywhere.
Do you think Allstate went too far?
Bottom line is gays say straights are intolerant when in fact it is the gays who are the intolerant ones........
 

ElGringo17

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It never fails that those that scream for "tolerance" are th elast ones to practice what they screach.

Reminds me of two female homosexual perverts who purchased a small hoel in Palm Springs. They apparently wanted to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation and turn it into a mino Sodom and Gomorrah, i.e., a "gay" hotel.

Their first act was to fire the manager because she was heterosexual. The woman promptly filed an EEOC complain which found the two intolerant, bigoted, homosexist heterophobes guilty of discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation and levied a huge fine against them. Last I heard the woman also received a large complaint award.

If it isn't "hetero-swine" they call us, then it is "breeders" as the epithet de jour for homosexuals.
 

JustineCredible

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Navy Pride said:
Bottom line is gays say straights are intolerant when in fact it is the gays who are the intolerant ones........
Yeah, right, but you're perfectly tolerant aren't you? You've never said or thought any ill will toward your gay brothers and sisters, have you?
You've never argued that gays aren't worthy of marriage, never?

Don't try to get all puffed up and holier than thou, because the truth is, no matter how much you want to deny it, we are all just human beings. Not one of us perfect.
 

ElGringo17

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The difference is, my radical leftist self identified homosexual extremist political foe, I don't CLAIM I am tolerant! I am proudly intolerant.....Get it?!
 
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