Where in the Bible is homosexuality a sin?

[cpwill]

Well, you and I will not agree on the subject of Paul. Or, maybe, the difference between scripture and gospel.
Paul, as I said, was a key figure in early Christianity but when he spoke it was just his voice and his opinions. God didn't whisper into his ear, but giving him a higher authority than he merits means other voices and opinions can acquire high authority as well so Paul is a favourite of some preachers.
And scripture, in my mind, is simply writings that people have given sacred status to. There's Christan scripture, Hindu scripture, Buddhist scripture, Mormon, many kinds. But Gospel, in my mind, is writings that It's presumed had sacred status as they were being written because of the words they record and the events they describe

Each of the authors of Scripture write in their own voice. That does not stop them from being Divinely Inspired - God Breathed. We will indeed, as you say, disagree on this

 

[Maccabee]

The term Paul uses is "arsenokoite", a combination of "male" (arsen) and "bed" (koite), which was a sexual reference, similar to "sleeping together" (it's where we get "coitus" from) - "men who bed men" or "men bedders". It is a lift from the language the Septuagint uses for the condemnations of sexuality in the Old Testament.

For example, Leviticus 20:13 is: kai os an koimeetee meta arsenos koiten gynaikos bdelugma epoieesan amphoteroi thanatousthoosan enokhoi eisin;". “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Had he been referring to Pedeophilia, it would have been "paiderastia".

Except that ignores the historical context of that phrase.

1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy on Homosexuality- The Reformation Project

1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, often cited against same-sex relationships, focus not on homosexuality but on exploitation and abuse.

www.google.com

 

[LittleNipper]

So how do you know God doesn't want people to be in a gay relationship?

Jesus spoke only in terms of one Male and one Female --- and HE taught HIS disciples and it would seem to follow that what they wrote was what CHRIST taught and exactly what the HOLY SPIRIT reminded them to write. GOD has nothing against friendship. And David and Jonathan are a sound example of true friendship. Guys can LOVE Guys as close --- even closer than a brother. The evil is the inappropriate application of SEX. I had a friend who knew nearly everything about me and had my back. We were best friends and in each others weddings ------ but we didn't marry each other. We had known each other from kindergarten ---- through high school. And frankly, I feel that homosexuality has made everyone suspicious of such friendships. Society has lost its innocents. It's a real shame.

 

[Maccabee]

Jesus spoke only in terms of one Male and one Female --- and HE taught HIS disciples and it would seem to follow that what they wrote was what CHRIST taught and exactly what the HOLY SPIRIT reminded them to write.

That is a model in which we should strive for with our relationships with our spouses whether it be gay or straight.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

I think the real answer is, why should literally anyone care either way? Why should anybody base any morals off of any religious text?

Even if we knew for a fact that the Bible spelled out in big bold red letters that being gay was a sin, that wouldn’t change any of my morals. What if the Bible wrote that being straight was a sin? Or if some other religious book said that being tall was a sin? What if we found some ancient text of the Bible buried somewhere and it explicitly said that being gay wasn’t a sin?

If someones moral framework is as flimsy as vague interpretations of a ancient book then I don’t really know why I should take them seriously.

 

[Logicman]

Leviticus is full of prohibitions that are ignored, declared no longer valid or not applying to Gentiles but fundamentalist Christians just love the one about homosexuality.

We probably wouldn't even be discussing homosexual sin if it weren't for the spiritually-challenged pro-sodomy crowd promoting it at every turn.

Leviticus also has prohibitions against adultery in the same chapter where it prohibits homosexual sin. You want to kick that one to the curb also?

 

[Binary_Digit]

It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.

What about the laws against mixing cotton and linen in the same garment, or against eating pigs and shellfish, or calling for periodic ritualistic animal sacrifices? Are we still obligated to follow all of those Old Laws, even though Jesus didn't reiterate them either?

 

[Grand Mal]

We probably wouldn't even be discussing homosexual sin if it weren't for the spiritually-challenged pro-sodomy crowd promoting it at every turn.

Leviticus also has prohibitions against adultery in the same chapter where it prohibits homosexual sin. You want to kick that one to the curb also?

I'm not the one kicking Leviticus to the curb.
You really don't want to get into Leviticus verses being kicked to the curb, do you? Have you actually read it?

 

[Daisy]

So he created something he knew would be evil. And if God didn't create LGBT people, then where did they come from?

He created the angels and humans with free will...the choice to obey Him or not...

 

[MaryP]

All I know is, I have known many homosexual men and women who are good, decent people that will have no trouble looking God in the eye; they have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Maccabee]

We probably wouldn't even be discussing homosexual sin if it weren't for the spiritually-challenged pro-sodomy crowd promoting it at every turn.

We would have to mention my interpretation of scripture condemns the gays if it wasn't for those darn gays.

Leviticus also has prohibitions against adultery in the same chapter where it prohibits homosexual sin. You want to kick that one to the curb also?

So why are we hanging onto homosexuality of all the things supposedly prohibited I Leviticus?

 

[cpwill]

Except that ignores the historical context of that phrase.

1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy on Homosexuality- The Reformation Project

1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy, often cited against same-sex relationships, focus not on homosexuality but on exploitation and abuse.

www.google.com

Nope. A lot of people have tried in the past few decades to come up with "well it meant something else!", from "oh, they only mean men who are attracted to women who have sex with men" to "oh, it only means that if it's pedophiliac (which I addressed above)", to "oh, it's only if it's with a temple prostitute", "it's only if its exploitative", etc.

The problem is - nothing in the history of the language or the text suggests that, the text itself addresses those separate issues separately, and contemporary sources do not support that interpretation. The attempt to import "only if its' exploitive" here is... very much a 20th century attempt to get around clear 1st century language :-/

 

[Logicman]

Being gay harms no one...

Gay sex is a sin in scripture.

Homosexual sin - No harm?

Plenty of harm. First, "gay pride" (two sins). They flaunt it in our faces and try to legitimize it. You don't hear of "adultery pride" parades or "necrophilia pride" parades do you? And is there some compelling reason why the populace in general needs to know how people perform illicit sex acts?

Second, most homosexuals who claim to be Christian try to persuade others it's not a sin, leading many into perdition. We don't want to see even one soul lost.

Third, most homosexuals distort the scriptures in some fashion or another in order to try to justify their sin. The distort who Jesus is (saying he's not God so he never spoke out against gay sex sin); they make lengthy arguments against Leviticus, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc. Generally, they attack the Word of God and thus attack God himself.

Fourth: Homosexual in is a reproach to individuals and nations and brings God's disfavor and Judgment on men and nations. Read Deuteronomy chapter 28 to see the curses of disobedience. Sodom and Gomorrah was also leveled in part because of illicit sexual perversion (Jude 7).

Fifth, they attack the Sons and Daughters of God when we stand up for the truth of God's Word. They often call us bigots, homophobes, and all manner of vile names because we disagree with their Satanic agenda

Sixth, they push their illicit agenda into every corner of America. Suing the Boy Scouts and anyone else who disagrees with them. They push their gay agenda in elementary schools and elsewhere where it doesn't belong. Nine year old children shouldn't have to hear that Billy's daddy is doing another guy, or that it's ok to do it. They push their agenda in our faces until we're quite sick of it. Again, we don't need to know which way people perform sex acts.

Seventh: (need I go on?) They (and heterosexual sinners) cost taxpayers untold billions in unnecessary health care costs to treat AIDS and other diseases they give to each other. It costs us all money out of our pockets.

And eighth: They refuse to repent of it, and so they will perish and wind up in the Lake of Fire (Luke 13:3; Revelation 21:8).

 

[Maccabee]

Nope. A lot of people have tried in the past few decades to come up with "well it meant something else!", from "oh, they only mean men who are attracted to women who have sex with men" to "oh, it only means that if it's pedophiliac (which I addressed above)", to "oh, it's only if it's with a temple prostitute", "it's only if its exploitative", etc.

The problem is - nothing in the history of the language or the text suggests that, the text itself addresses those separate issues separately, and contemporary sources do not support that interpretation. The attempt to import "only if its' exploitive" here is... very much a 20th century attempt to get around clear 1st century language :-/

Again, evidence?

 

[cpwill]

Again, evidence?

...I provided the literal text above to demonstrate the tie straight back to Levitical language in the Septuagint.

Is it your contention that Leviticus, as well, is referring only to exploitative sexual relationships?

Paul himself provides the context in his discussion of man's fall in Romans 1:

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.​

​

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.​

​

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.​

 

[Logicman]

All I know is, I have known many homosexual men and women who are good, decent people that will have no trouble looking God in the eye; they have nothing to be ashamed of.

Well, God has a different opinion on that. First, they aren't "good" in God's eyes. Jesus said there was no one good except God alone.

Second, God (Jesus) has already said that unless people repent, they will perish (Luke 13:3). Where's the repentance from the gay sex crowd?

Third, here's the God-inspired scriptures that define homosexual sin:

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Timothy 1:8-10 - “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine…”

Jude 7 – “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”

Revelation 21:8 – “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.”

 

[Binary_Digit]

We probably wouldn't even be discussing homosexual sin if it weren't for the spiritually-challenged pro-sodomy crowd promoting it at every turn.

"Promoting" it, lol. Do you actually think people's sexual attraction can be socialized? Imagine the amount of therapy and "promotion" it would take to get you to be turned on by a lawn chair instead of a woman. Not happening is it?

Even in the face of persistent ridicule, rejection, and threat of violence or death, homosexuality has been around since the Biblical days and it's never going away. That's because it's biological, not social. It's being "promoted at every turn" today so they no longer feel like they have to hide from a society that would judge them harshly for it. Thanks to the Bible and other religious texts like it, for thousands of years they've faced everything from social and familial rejection to executions by governments and even vigilante mobs. But thanks to educated and enlightened people, we're slowly evolving beyond that primitive way of thinking as a species.

Yes, being violent is also biological, but the wrong kind of violence involves an unwilling victim who is being harmed. It's easy to apply a sensible moral standard and draw a clear distinction between sexual attraction and violent tendencies. Besides, violent tendencies are usually a sign of past abuse and psychological trauma, not inherent to people who had a healthy and well-adjusted upbringing.

 

[Logician Man]

<<< Society has lost its innocents. It's a real shame.

Consenting adults who engage in consensual sex are "innocents." They aren't bothering anybody else with what they do in the privacy of their own homes.

 

[Maccabee]

That's another one of you loony-tune fairy tales in an attempt to try to justify illicit homosexual sin.

Homosexual sin - No harm?

Plenty of harm. First, "gay pride" (two sins).

Are you proud to be an American? Are you proud to be Christian? Are you proud of our service members? If so, then you are no worse than me being proud for being gay.

They flaunt it in our faces and try to legitimize it.

As we should.

You don't hear of "adultery pride" parades or "necrophilia pride" parades do you?

Because both of those are acts and one of them harms the people being cheated on. Being gay is a state of being like being straight, left/right handed, or being a particular race.

And is there some compelling reason why the populace in general needs to know how people perform illicit sex acts?

Being gay is more than just sex. It's about pursuing a romantic relationship with someone you're attracted to, just like being straight.

Second, most homosexuals who claim to be Christian try to persuade others it's not a sin, leading many into perdition. We don't want to see even one soul lost.

Last I checked, I'm saved through faith by grace. Short of rejecting God outright, no one and nothing can take my salvation. Certainly not anything beyond my control like what gender I'm attracted to.

Third, most homosexuals distort the scriptures in some fashion or another in order to try to justify their sin. The distort who Jesus is (saying he's not God so he never spoke out against gay sex sin); they make lengthy arguments against Leviticus, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc. Generally, they attack the Word of God and thus attack God himself.

So because we don't abide by your interpretation of scripture, being gay is harmful? Let's not overlook the fact that you have yet to list an actual harm of two people in a long term loving relationship.

Fourth: Homosexual in is a reproach to individuals and nations and brings God's disfavor and Judgment on men and nations. Read Deuteronomy chapter 28 to see the curses of disobedience. Sodom and Gomorrah was also leveled in part because of illicit sexual perversion (Jude 7).

Fifth, they attack the Sons and Daughters of God when we stand up for the truth of God's Word. They often call us bigots, homophobes, and all manner of vile names because we disagree with their Satanic agenda

Still not seeing actual harm. And of course we'll call people against the LGBT community bigots. Homophobes are attacking something that is out of our control.

Sixth, they push their illicit agenda into every corner of America. Suing the Boy Scouts and anyone else who disagrees with them. They push their gay agenda in elementary schools and elsewhere where it doesn't belong. Nine year old children shouldn't have to hear that Billy's daddy is doing another guy, or that it's ok to do it. They push their agenda in our faces until we're quite sick of it. Again, we don't need to know which way people perform sex acts.

No one is telling children what Billy's dad is doing to another guy in bed, just like no one is telling children what Tim's dad is doing to his mom.

Seventh: (need I go on?) They (and heterosexual sinners) cost taxpayers untold billions in unnecessary health care costs to treat AIDS and other diseases they give to each other. It costs us all money out of our pockets.

AIDS affect more straight people than gay people

And eighth: They refuse to repent of it, and so they will perish and wind up in the Lake of Fire (Luke 13:3; Revelation 21:8).

Again, I'm saved because I've accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior.

 

[MaryP]

Well, God has a different opinion on that. First, they aren't "good" in God's eyes. Jesus said there was no one good except God alone.

Second, God (Jesus) has already said that unless people repent, they will perish (Luke 13:3). Where's the repentance from the gay sex crowd?

Third, here's the God-inspired scriptures that define homosexual sin:

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

1 Timothy 1:8-10 - “But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine…”

Jude 7 – “In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.”

Revelation 21:8 – “But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.”

Yes, yes...I believe that's all been pointed out. My point is, it's a lot of bunk. If God were real, He would be measuring us for how we treat each other, what we do to make this earth a better place, and not worry about whether we're homosexual.

 

[Maccabee]

...I provided the literal text above to demonstrate the tie straight back to Levitical language in the Septuagint.

Is it your contention that Leviticus, as well, is referring only to exploitative sexual relationships?

Paul himself provides the context in his discussion of man's fall in Romans 1:

22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.​

​

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.​

​

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.​

Again, how do you know your interpretation of scripture is the correct one when you're going to ignore the historical context of what was being said?

 

[cpwill]

Again, how do you know your interpretation of scripture is the correct one when you're going to ignore the historical context of what was being said?

I'm not ignoring it - I'm the one (so far) who is actually referencing it.

 

[Maccabee]

I'm not ignoring it - I'm the one (so far) who is actually referencing it.

Except, you are. The term used by Paul is actually a rare one with varying interpretations . Whenever the word is used, it usually described a coerced or exploitative relationship of some kind. Two consenting adults in a loving relationship does fall into either category.

 

[Logician Man]

Growing up, I've been always taught that homosexuality is a sin. The common verses referring to Sodom and Gomorrah, men lying with men being a crime punishable by death in Leviticus, and abandoning my natural state to pursue my lists in the New Testament we're always quoted to me. For a good while, I took these verses and the assigned interpretation of them at face value.

Through some circumstances in my life, I had to take a second look at these verses. As it turns out, most, if not all the verses that supposedly condemns being gay actually condemns specific acts like wanton lust, rape, pedophilia, temple prostitution, and coercion. Nothing in the Bible, at least, from my understanding, condemns two people in a loving monogamous relationship. So I'm interested to see what posters here can come up with to show that the Bible does indeed condemns homosexuality in all forms.

Every homosexual I've ever talked to, or discussed homosexuality with, tells me they were born that way, including many gay Christians. I can see absolutely no reason for any of them to lie about such a thing. Therefore, if someone is born gay, and believes in a Divine Plan, guess where the blame for being born homosexual falls.

 

[Lursa]

ANYTHING that is placed above GOD is wrong. GOD is supposed to be at the center of everything we need, want, wish, and do. And anyone who doesn't believe this is most likely separated from GOD and in need of the SAVIOR. That doesn't mean that CHRISTIANS do all this, but they know that they fall short and are coming around to the realization of the extent of their shortcomings.

I'm not placing anything above God. I am looking out for my fellow man so that they are not improperly abused falsely in the name of God.

What is wrong about any gay relationship is that it is entirely all about what the gay person at least "thinks" he/she want, and GOD is the last thing on their minds (if even at all).

THat's not real...you made that up. It's no different than a straight person picking a person they are attracted to and want to share their lives with. There are plenty of religious gay people. My cousin and his husband were married in a traditional Christian church, as are many other gay religious couples. And of course they love and honor God with their commitment.