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Where in the Bible is homosexuality a sin?

Maccabee

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Growing up, I've been always taught that homosexuality is a sin. The common verses referring to Sodom and Gomorrah, men lying with men being a crime punishable by death in Leviticus, and abandoning my natural state to pursue my lists in the New Testament we're always quoted to me. For a good while, I took these verses and the assigned interpretation of them at face value.

Through some circumstances in my life, I had to take a second look at these verses. As it turns out, most, if not all the verses that supposedly condemns being gay actually condemns specific acts like wanton lust, rape, pedophilia, temple prostitution, and coercion. Nothing in the Bible, at least, from my understanding, condemns two people in a loving monogamous relationship. So I'm interested to see what posters here can come up with to show that the Bible does indeed condemns homosexuality in all forms.
 
You have a point. The Bible in general frowns on sex outside of marriage, and that wasnt even an option back then.

And IMO, it wasnt "God's Word" that sex outside of marriage (fornication) was wrong. It was a social standard of the time imposed on God's Word, by men of the times. It could have been an intentional misinterpretation or not but it can easily be justified as well-meaning.

In those days, it generally harmed women to have sex outside of marriage. They had no means of support outside their family home until they went to their husband's home. If she ran off with a man and then got dumped, she was ruined. If she had a kid, she had no means to support herself. So I can see the men of the time, as most societies and cultures have done, inserting this into stories and parables that were meant to protect people and teach how to treat others.
 
Here is a explanation of what the Bible says. The article is preceded by a few points from the text.
All teaching and practice must align itself with the Bible, since it is God’s Word. (II Timothy 3:16) There are a multitude of opinions based on “tradition,” “reason” and “experience.” The Church, however, subordinates tradition, reason and experience to Scripture. From a Christian perspective, all “truth” is valid, only to the extent that it conforms to the Word of God.
Leviticus 18:22
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
Leviticus 20:10-16
10 “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 If a man lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14 If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. 15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:9-10, “understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 or 1 Timothy 1:10 Paul is not debating whether homosexuality is sinful behavior, anymore than he is debating whether idolatry, drunkenness, thievery or adultery are sinful. Paul is simply stating that such behavior (which unequivocally includes homosexuality) is inconsistent with the new life in the Messiah Jesus. He warns the church that people who practice such behavior will not enter the Kingdom of God. It is also clear that some in the church had practiced homosexuality in their former lives ie., before entering the new life in Christ. Therefore all persons can potentially be redeemed from homosexuality, as they can from any number of spiritual vices.
Romans 1:24-26

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
 
Growing up, I've been always taught that homosexuality is a sin. The common verses referring to Sodom and Gomorrah, men lying with men being a crime punishable by death in Leviticus, and abandoning my natural state to pursue my lists in the New Testament we're always quoted to me. For a good while, I took these verses and the assigned interpretation of them at face value.

Through some circumstances in my life, I had to take a second look at these verses. As it turns out, most, if not all the verses that supposedly condemns being gay actually condemns specific acts like wanton lust, rape, pedophilia, temple prostitution, and coercion. Nothing in the Bible, at least, from my understanding, condemns two people in a loving monogamous relationship. So I'm interested to see what posters here can come up with to show that the Bible does indeed condemns homosexuality in all forms.
Counter Argument to Romans 1.24-26 – Homosexuality is ‘natural’ for some.

A common modern argument in favor of homosexual behavior is that it is indeed ‘natural’ for some, i.e. some people are born with a homosexual predisposition. This logic produces a morality based on personal predisposition or what is personally ‘natural.’ If am ‘naturally’ attracted to the same sex it must therefore be good. Christian teaching is not at variance with humankind being ‘naturally’ predisposed toward attitudes and behaviors which are inherently wrong. So what if I am naturally selfish, violent or predisposed to addiction or adultery or pedophilia? Does that ‘natural inclination’ therefore make it a ‘good’ thing? The Bible teaches that every person’s nature is corrupt and must be regenerated by God. Therefore Christ. Thus all men are born naturally into a multitude of vice ~ as Christians we trust God to produce in us a NEW ‘natural’ which is a product of the New Birth in Christ. “If any man be in Christ he is a new creation. The old is passed, behold the new is come.” (2 Cor. 5.17) This is why Jesus says that to enter the Kingdom of God a person must be “born again.” (John 3:3)

2. Jesus never spoke about Homosexuality directly.

Some people have argued that since Jesus never directly confronted the topic of homosexuality he therefore tacitly condoned it. This is an argument from silence. There are at least 3 objections to this rationale.

A. Jesus never directly addresses bestiality or pedophilia. This absence does not argue for their tacit inclusion into the lifestyle of the redeemed.

B. Jesus directly confronts “porneia” (Matthew 15:19) (often translated either fornication or sexual immorality) which included all sexual behavior outside of the bond of marriage between one man and one woman. So in fact Jesus does speak to homosexual practice directly. Please bear in mind that first century Judaism universally acknowledged homosexual behavior to be sinful as it did adultery and all other relationships outside of the bond of heterosexual marriage.

C. Jesus’ purpose is not to set aside the Law of Moses.

sermon-on-the-mount
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:17-20
 
Growing up, I've been always taught that homosexuality is a sin. The common verses referring to Sodom and Gomorrah, men lying with men being a crime punishable by death in Leviticus, and abandoning my natural state to pursue my lists in the New Testament we're always quoted to me. For a good while, I took these verses and the assigned interpretation of them at face value.

Through some circumstances in my life, I had to take a second look at these verses. As it turns out, most, if not all the verses that supposedly condemns being gay actually condemns specific acts like wanton lust, rape, pedophilia, temple prostitution, and coercion. Nothing in the Bible, at least, from my understanding, condemns two people in a loving monogamous relationship. So I'm interested to see what posters here can come up with to show that the Bible does indeed condemns homosexuality in all forms.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13

Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. God made you that way and then he's going to punish you for being that way. Just one of many reasons not to trust what that filthy rag has to say.
 
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13

Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. God made you that way and then he's going to punish you for being that way. Just one of many reasons not to trust what that filthy rag has to say.
While a cursory reading of that scripture with our modern assigned interpretation may at first seem to condemn homosexuality, the original language and historical context isn't as cut and dry. Translations in other languages interpret that passage as a condemnation of pedophilia, while others have interpreted as a condemnation of incest or prostitution when you look at what was going on around them back then.
 
Clearly some of you are not bothering to read the information I posted. You cannot know the truth if you are not willing to read the word.
 
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13

Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. God made you that way and then he's going to punish you for being that way. Just one of many reasons not to trust what that filthy rag has to say.
GOD created Adam and Eve. There was no such thing as Sodomy. This was ultimately the result of sin as it progressively grew worse and fed on itself. When Adam and Eve chose not to listen to GOD they became spiritually dead and began to follow after their own lusts and not anything of GOD's design.
 
While a cursory reading of that scripture with our modern assigned interpretation may at first seem to condemn homosexuality, the original language and historical context isn't as cut and dry. Translations in other languages interpret that passage as a condemnation of pedophilia, while others have interpreted as a condemnation of incest or prostitution when you look at what was going on around them back then.
And that's another reason lol. I've read Ikea manuals translated from Swahili that are easier to understand. And we're to believe that this is the owner's manual for our eternal souls that God personally made sure we had? It makes him look like an incompetent baffoon. Because it was inspired and written by men, not a perfect being.
 
GOD created Adam and Eve. There was no such thing as Sodomy. This was ultimately the result of sin as it progressively grew worse and fed on itself. When Adam and Eve chose not to listen to GOD they became spiritually dead and began to follow after their own lusts and not anything of GOD's design.
God causes some people to involuntarily develop homosexual urges during puberty and then he holds it against them if they decide to act on them. What a cruel asshole the Bible makes God out to be.
 
Here is a explanation of what the Bible says. The article is preceded by a few points from the text.
All teaching and practice must align itself with the Bible, since it is God’s Word. (II Timothy 3:16) There are a multitude of opinions based on “tradition,” “reason” and “experience.” The Church, however, subordinates tradition, reason and experience to Scripture. From a Christian perspective, all “truth” is valid, only to the extent that it conforms to the Word of God.
Leviticus 18:22
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
Leviticus 20:10-16
10 “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 If a man lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14 If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. 15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

But the fact of the matter is, this article is solely using the English translation along with the commonly assigned interpretation that goes with it. When you actually take the time to look at the original language and historical context, the passage isn't that straight forward.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:9-10, “understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 or 1 Timothy 1:10 Paul is not debating whether homosexuality is sinful behavior, anymore than he is debating whether idolatry, drunkenness, thievery or adultery are sinful. Paul is simply stating that such behavior (which unequivocally includes homosexuality) is inconsistent with the new life in the Messiah Jesus. He warns the church that people who practice such behavior will not enter the Kingdom of God. It is also clear that some in the church had practiced homosexuality in their former lives ie., before entering the new life in Christ. Therefore all persons can potentially be redeemed from homosexuality, as they can from any number of spiritual vices.
Romans 1:24-26

The term "homosexuality" doesn't appear in English translations until fairly recently.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
What is natural for me is to be attracted to other men. Therefore pursuing something that I cannot obtain such as being attracted to someone of the opposite gender is unnatural for me.
 
Counter Argument to Romans 1.24-26 – Homosexuality is ‘natural’ for some.

A common modern argument in favor of homosexual behavior is that it is indeed ‘natural’ for some, i.e. some people are born with a homosexual predisposition. This logic produces a morality based on personal predisposition or what is personally ‘natural.’ If am ‘naturally’ attracted to the same sex it must therefore be good. Christian teaching is not at variance with humankind being ‘naturally’ predisposed toward attitudes and behaviors which are inherently wrong. So what if I am naturally selfish, violent or predisposed to addiction or adultery or pedophilia? Does that ‘natural inclination’ therefore make it a ‘good’ thing? The Bible teaches that every person’s nature is corrupt and must be regenerated by God. Therefore Christ. Thus all men are born naturally into a multitude of vice ~ as Christians we trust God to produce in us a NEW ‘natural’ which is a product of the New Birth in Christ. “If any man be in Christ he is a new creation. The old is passed, behold the new is come.” (2 Cor. 5.17) This is why Jesus says that to enter the Kingdom of God a person must be “born again.” (John 3:3)

By that logic, if you pursue a heterosexual lifestyle because it's natural for you to be attracted to the opposite gender, then what's to stop you from claiming being violent is natural and therefore good? Which as a side note, the Bible gives exceptions to the "no violence" rule such as defense of self and others.
2. Jesus never spoke about Homosexuality directly.

Some people have argued that since Jesus never directly confronted the topic of homosexuality he therefore tacitly condoned it. This is an argument from silence. There are at least 3 objections to this rationale.

A. Jesus never directly addresses bestiality or pedophilia. This absence does not argue for their tacit inclusion into the lifestyle of the redeemed.

B. Jesus directly confronts “porneia” (Matthew 15:19) (often translated either fornication or sexual immorality) which included all sexual behavior outside of the bond of marriage between one man and one woman. So in fact Jesus does speak to homosexual practice directly. Please bear in mind that first century Judaism universally acknowledged homosexual behavior to be sinful as it did adultery and all other relationships outside of the bond of heterosexual marriage.

C. Jesus’ purpose is not to set aside the Law of Moses.

sermon-on-the-mount
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:17-20
So are you eating kosher? Eating pork is also an abomination.
 
GOD created Adam and Eve. There was no such thing as Sodomy. This was ultimately the result of sin as it progressively grew worse and fed on itself. When Adam and Eve chose not to listen to GOD they became spiritually dead and began to follow after their own lusts and not anything of GOD's design.
God made man full of all the good and bad. The freedom of choice and ability to make good and bad choices. God sad to turn from sin, it's a choice, a commitment. Man is not without sin, man is not God. Man must redeem himself through the son of God.
 
GOD created Adam and Eve. There was no such thing as Sodomy. This was ultimately the result of sin as it progressively grew worse and fed on itself. When Adam and Eve chose not to listen to GOD they became spiritually dead and began to follow after their own lusts and not anything of GOD's design.
Bear in mind, for over 2,000 years, God allowed and even condoned incest. It wasn't until Moses that God put a stop to it. How else did Adam and Eve populate the earth?
 
Paul made it clear that some Christians were homosexuals before they became believers, but changed with God's help, in order to be a Christian...according to Paul's words, homosexual acts are wrong, in any relationship...

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality,...And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9,11
 
By that logic, if you pursue a heterosexual lifestyle because it's natural for you to be attracted to the opposite gender, then what's to stop you from claiming being violent is natural and therefore good? Which as a side note, the Bible gives exceptions to the "no violence" rule such as defense of self and others.

So are you eating kosher? Eating pork is also an abomination.
Because we know being violent isn't "natural". Being attracted to the opposite gender is natural. You can deny, I posted a good article that goes into all you are talking about, you should go back and read it.
 
Here is a explanation of what the Bible says. The article is preceded by a few points from the text.
All teaching and practice must align itself with the Bible, since it is God’s Word. (II Timothy 3:16) There are a multitude of opinions based on “tradition,” “reason” and “experience.” The Church, however, subordinates tradition, reason and experience to Scripture. From a Christian perspective, all “truth” is valid, only to the extent that it conforms to the Word of God.
Leviticus 18:22
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
Leviticus 20:10-16
10 “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. 11 If a man lies with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. 13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. 14 If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. 15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Timothy 1:9-10, “understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 or 1 Timothy 1:10 Paul is not debating whether homosexuality is sinful behavior, anymore than he is debating whether idolatry, drunkenness, thievery or adultery are sinful. Paul is simply stating that such behavior (which unequivocally includes homosexuality) is inconsistent with the new life in the Messiah Jesus. He warns the church that people who practice such behavior will not enter the Kingdom of God. It is also clear that some in the church had practiced homosexuality in their former lives ie., before entering the new life in Christ. Therefore all persons can potentially be redeemed from homosexuality, as they can from any number of spiritual vices.
Romans 1:24-26

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Leviticus is full of prohibitions that are ignored, declared no longer valid or not applying to Gentiles but fundamentalist Christians just love the one about homosexuality.
And the Epistles are just letters from Paul, who never saw or heard Jesus, to congregations around the Mediterranean giving them the benefit of his opinions. Paul certainly didn't speak the word of God, he spoke the word of Paul.
 
Paul made it clear that some Christians were homosexuals before they became believers, but changed with God's help, in order to be a Christian...according to Paul's words, homosexual acts are wrong, in any relationship...

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality,...And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9,11
Paul, the old sinner, was stating his opinions in the Epistles, not speaking on behalf of God.
 
Paul made it clear that some Christians were homosexuals before they became believers, but changed with God's help, in order to be a Christian...according to Paul's words, homosexual acts are wrong, in any relationship...

"Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality,...And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9,11
The original text did not used the word "homosexual." Not even the KJV uses the word.
 
But the fact of the matter is, this article is solely using the English translation along with the commonly assigned interpretation that goes with it. When you actually take the time to look at the original language and historical context, the passage isn't that straight forward.



The term "homosexuality" doesn't appear in English translations until fairly recently.

What is natural for me is to be attracted to other men. Therefore pursuing something that I cannot obtain such as being attracted to someone of the opposite gender is unnatural for me.
The entire English language was invented after the authorship of the New Testament - that interpretation exists is not, actually, an argument against it.
 
Paul, the old sinner, was stating his opinions in the Epistles, not speaking on behalf of God.
The letters of Paul are identified as Scripture in Scripture, all of which is God-breathed, and useful for instruction.

However, it does fit that, in order to argue that Scripture does not identify homosexual relations as sinful, you have to toss out the Scripture that does so.
 
Bear in mind, for over 2,000 years, God allowed and even condoned incest. It wasn't until Moses that God put a stop to it. How else did Adam and Eve populate the earth?
God allowed procreation between brother and sister, up until the time of Moses. It is then (years after the FLOOD) that the gene pool of man began to deteriorate to the point that birth defects began to appear. Continued marriage between brother and sister would have resulted in massive contamination through inbreeding.
 
Because we know being violent isn't "natural".

If being violent isn't natural, however you define the term, then your point is moot. Everything you've experienced as a presumably heterosexual being attracted to the opposite gender is what people like me experienced being attracted to the same gender. From having a first crush, to playing certain games as a child, to going through puberty and discovering yourself sexually. Being gay for me is as natural as being straight for you.
Being attracted to the opposite gender is natural. You can deny, I posted a good article that goes into all you are talking about, you should go back and read it.
I did read it, and the information is simply not accurate.
 
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