Where do you stand?[W:452]

[TurtleDude]

Re: Where do you stand?

Get gun control laws like Europe and Australia. There has to be some reason why their gun violence is less than ours.

well white americans with "easy access to guns" don't have any gun violence rates higher than whites in those areas with stupid gun control laws

but our Democrat party run cities with gun bans like you want, have tons of murders and other gun violence

looks like your suggestion is a complete fail when facts are applied to it

but its consistent-progressives want to punish mainly conservative gun owners but don't want to do anything that hurts criminals

 

[AtlantaAdonis]

Re: Where do you stand?

well white americans with "easy access to guns" don't have any gun violence rates higher than whites in those areas with stupid gun control laws

but our Democrat party run cities with gun bans like you want, have tons of murders and other gun violence

looks like your suggestion is a complete fail when facts are applied to it

but its consistent-progressives want to punish mainly conservative gun owners but don't want to do anything that hurts criminals

What good are gun laws in cities when some Jim Bob or Bubba in a city with tight gun laws can travel to another town or state and buy a gun?

And I don't like the insinuation that gun violence is some kind of "black problem".

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Where do you stand?

What good are gun laws in cities when some Jim Bob or Bubba in a city with tight gun laws can travel to another town or state and buy a gun?

And I don't like the insinuation that gun violence is some kind of "black problem".

that's already illegal. so your solution is to pass more laws that only screw over people who obey them

Good thinking there dude. and when 6% of the population commits more than half the murders, that is a major issue

I don't like your insinuation that honest gun owners need to be punished in a fake attempt to do something about mainly black gun violence

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Where do you stand?

gun laws for amateurs

1) if you are a resident of say Ohio you can

a) buy pistols and rifles/shotguns from dealers in Ohio

b) buy pistols and long arms from other citizens of ohio at face to face transactions

c) sells guns to other citizens of Ohio unless you know or should know they are prohibited

d) buy long arms from DEALERS from adjacent states

e) sell firearms to licensed dealers of other states

2) You may not

a) buy any gun from someone who is not a citizen of Ohio and does not have a federal license

b)Sell any firearm to anyone who is not a resident of Ohio PERIOD if they are not a dealer

so if you travel out of state to buy a handgun you have broken federal law

if you travel out of state to buy a long arm from someone other than a LICENSED dealer you have broken federal law

and if you sell a firearm to anyone in a state not your residence other than a licensed dealer, you are in violation of federal law

if you travel out of your state and sell anyone any type of firearm OTHER Then a licensed dealer you are in violation of federal laws

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Re: Where do you stand?

What are you babbling about? Get a grip.

I can do it in steps for you so you can understand.

1) Who do you wish to disarm?

So you aren't man enough to back up your accusations. Hardly a surprise.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

You don't have the right to marry.

You do have the right to free speech. That doesn't mean your parents/teachers free speech is strangely inhibited in that they aren't allowed to tell you to shut up in specific circumstances.

The "right" to make medical decisions is absolutely a privilege. Who decides when to pull the plug on a coma patient? Surely, the comatose patient cannot do it...

It sounds like you don't like the distinction between a right and a privilege. It's not my distinction, i didn't just make it up out of thin air...

Sorry if you feel jilted because you've obviously been lied to about the ability to purchase a gun being some protected right.

It is and the courts have proved you wrong time and time again. I hope your side does the same actions, it saves us time and funding.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

What good are gun laws in cities when some Jim Bob or Bubba in a city with tight gun laws can travel to another town or state and buy a gun?

And I don't like the insinuation that gun violence is some kind of "black problem".

Facts are facts, do not like it? Tough.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

I don't really have a strong opinion. If someone shoots me, i don't think i'll care much if a silencer was equipped or not. On the other hand, if the un-silenced noise helped get an ambulance there quicker, and that saved my life, i suppose i would be grateful.

I don't think the presence or absence of a silencer is all that useful for hunting, target practice, or self defense. At least not enough to guarantee availability.

They are, that is why most people who have them, use them. Their is no guarantees in life expect that it ends, this idea that nothing is a guarantee then nothing matters in nihilism at is finest.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

Sometimes they can restrain patients. Not every time they are a material threat.

If someone is a violent sociopathic serial killer out on parole, you want that person to be able to buy a gun. That's what you're saying here.

They can still be a diagnosed threat and run free. If they run free, the gun sales loophole lets them legally buy a gun (even if they are not legally allowed to possess it). You think the government should turn the other cheek and let a paranoid schizophrenic buy a gun. The government played a role in their acquisition of a gun.



No, it is a simple hoop, and it could be done behind the curtains with the background check, creating no additional restriction, whatsoever.

Why is that person back on the streets?

More over why should we all be punished for the actions of a handful of people?

If you want to be punished great, we do not and will not, do not like it? Leave America.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

Get gun control laws like Europe and Australia. There has to be some reason why their gun violence is less than ours.

Yeah no black and Hispanic underclass.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

I can and should learn more about gun control laws.

That doesn't stop me from sharing my current view with you, trying to keep communication open so that i may understand yours.

So your support laws that you do not fully understand or even comprehend...Just amazing is it not?

What is your stance on the Hughes Amendment, do you even know what that is?

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

well white americans with "easy access to guns" don't have any gun violence rates higher than whites in those areas with stupid gun control laws

but our Democrat party run cities with gun bans like you want, have tons of murders and other gun violence

looks like your suggestion is a complete fail when facts are applied to it

but its consistent-progressives want to punish mainly conservative gun owners but don't want to do anything that hurts criminals

Because they have to punish White into to make things "fair" and "equal"...

They would rather we be disarmed in the face of "Urban Youths" or "Dreamers" then punish criminals and deport illegals.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

What good are gun laws in cities when some Jim Bob or Bubba in a city with tight gun laws can travel to another town or state and buy a gun?

And I don't like the insinuation that gun violence is some kind of "black problem".

So you are admitting they are pointless, good, now stop support them and they party that lobbies for them.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Re: Where do you stand?

well white americans with "easy access to guns" don't have any gun violence rates higher than whites in those areas with stupid gun control laws

but our Democrat party run cities with gun bans like you want, have tons of murders and other gun violence

looks like your suggestion is a complete fail when facts are applied to it

but its consistent-progressives want to punish mainly conservative gun owners but don't want to do anything that hurts criminals

Your correlation's a fail, too. Dozens of cities around the SF region have tight restrictions on gun ownership, and yet the crime rate is still low.

 

[Goshin]

Re: Where do you stand?

Your correlation's a fail, too. Dozens of cities around the SF region have tight restrictions on gun ownership, and yet the crime rate is still low.

In studying comparative rates of murder and violence on an international basis, I've become convinced that gun laws are largely irrelevant to violent crime rates. Strict or loose, it doesn't seem to matter a lot.


The things that cause violent crime appear to be the following:


Poverty/severe wealth inequality
Corrupt or ineffective gov't/LE
Factions, gangs, tribes, etc
Drug trade
Cultural tendencies towards violence

 

[haymarket]

Re: Where do you stand?

In studying comparative rates of murder and violence on an international basis, I've become convinced that gun laws are largely irrelevant to violent crime rates. Strict or loose, it doesn't seem to matter a lot.


The things that cause violent crime appear to be the following:


Poverty/severe wealth inequality
Corrupt or ineffective gov't/LE
Factions, gangs, tribes, etc
Drug trade
Cultural tendencies towards violence

What makes it impossible for anyone to say for sure is the reality that there are many different factors that effect the rise and fall of criminal activity and it is impossible to isolate any singe factor independently of the others and say for sure if it caused a crime increase or decrease.

This makes it possible for people on all sides of this issue to be able to say just about anything they want from more guns produces less crime to less guns produce less crime.
You could be right on the money that just maybe the number guns may not be a significant factor contributing to crime.

 

[Goshin]

Re: Where do you stand?

What makes it impossible for anyone to say for sure is the reality that there are many different factors that effect the rise and fall of criminal activity and it is impossible to isolate any singe factor independently of the others and say for sure if it caused a crime increase or decrease.

This makes it possible for people on all sides of this issue to be able to say just about anything they want from more guns produces less crime to less guns produce less crime.
You could be right on the money that just maybe the number guns may not be a significant factor contributing to crime.

There was a study fairly recently, I forget the name or author, about the effects of easy-issue CCW on crime in states that had recently passed such measures.

What he found was the overall crime rate didn't change much, but criminals shifted their activities to things that reduced their odds of encountering an armed citizen.

F'rinstance... stealing parked cars instead of carjacking occupied ones. Stealing unattended goods instead of mugging people. More fraud and less strong-arm robbery.



Now, IMHO this is good... because the criminals, in seeking to reduce their own risk, are also inadvertently reducing the risk of the law-abiding citizen.


Violent crime and murder were not impacted much in most states, but I'm pretty sure I know why. For one thing, as FBI stats show, a very large amount of violence in the US is, in fact, criminal on criminal. A lot of the rest is domestic or heat-of-the-moment acts, where the offender is not operating in a rational manner.


I'd still say that CCW makes the citizen who is carrying a little safer since he has more options if deterrence fails... assuming he uses good judgment of course, and judicious marksmanship if necessary.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Where do you stand?

There was a study fairly recently, I forget the name or author, about the effects of easy-issue CCW on crime in states that had recently passed such measures.

What he found was the overall crime rate didn't change much, but criminals shifted their activities to things that reduced their odds of encountering an armed citizen.

F'rinstance... stealing parked cars instead of carjacking occupied ones. Stealing unattended goods instead of mugging people. More fraud and less strong-arm robbery.



Now, IMHO this is good... because the criminals, in seeking to reduce their own risk, are also inadvertently reducing the risk of the law-abiding citizen.


Violent crime and murder were not impacted much in most states, but I'm pretty sure I know why. For one thing, as FBI stats show, a very large amount of violence in the US is, in fact, criminal on criminal. A lot of the rest is domestic or heat-of-the-moment acts, where the offender is not operating in a rational manner.


I'd still say that CCW makes the citizen who is carrying a little safer since he has more options if deterrence fails... assuming he uses good judgment of course, and judicious marksmanship if necessary.

If you can find that study Goshin, I would be glad to read it.

And I have no problem with honest citizens carrying a concealed weapon providing they go through the proper channels to obtain it and get a license to do so and do not carry in places that are restricted to them like gun free zones. Two years ago we went to Memphis on vacation - (great trip and go to Gus's to get the fried chicken - best I have ever eaten) and I could not get over on Beale Street with all the bars and honky-tonks all the signs on the doors and windows announcing that no guns were allowed inside. Probably makes a whole lot of sense in a watering hole where folks are letting loose.

 

[Goshin]

Re: Where do you stand?

If you can find that study Goshin, I would be glad to read it.

And I have no problem with honest citizens carrying a concealed weapon providing they go through the proper channels to obtain it and get a license to do so.

If I can remember where I came across it, I'll post a link here.

 

[US Conservative]

Re: Where do you stand?

In studying comparative rates of murder and violence on an international basis, I've become convinced that gun laws are largely irrelevant to violent crime rates. Strict or loose, it doesn't seem to matter a lot.


The things that cause violent crime appear to be the following:


Poverty/severe wealth inequality
Corrupt or ineffective gov't/LE
Factions, gangs, tribes, etc
Drug trade
Cultural tendencies towards violence

Another link is intelligence.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Where do you stand?

It is and the courts have proved you wrong time and time again. I hope your side does the same actions, it saves us time and funding.

You must never tire of being wrong.

The supreme court has exactly ruled that some regulations on the sales of firearms is not infringed by the second amendment.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Where do you stand?

They are, that is why most people who have them, use them. Their is no guarantees in life expect that it ends, this idea that nothing is a guarantee then nothing matters in nihilism at is finest.

I'm not sure that you know what nihilism means.

TD made a good case for silencers. Yours is completely devoid of content.

Why is that person back on the streets?

More over why should we all be punished for the actions of a handful of people?

If you want to be punished great, we do not and will not, do not like it? Leave America.

Nobody else is being punished.

So your support laws that you do not fully understand or even comprehend...Just amazing is it not?

What is your stance on the Hughes Amendment, do you even know what that is?

Smart people know that there is no such thing as a complete understanding.

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

I'm not sure that you know what nihilism means.

TD made a good case for silencers. Yours is completely devoid of content.



Nobody else is being punished.

Smart people know that there is no such thing as a complete understanding.

No, we are being punished are right and actions are being limited because of the poor decisions people in power.

Smart people do not use the term "smart people".

 

[AmericanSpartan]

Re: Where do you stand?

You must never tire of being wrong.

The supreme court has exactly ruled that some regulations on the sales of firearms is not infringed by the second amendment.

The court can be changed, restacked, or dissolved.

 

[Crimefree]

Re: Where do you stand?

I can and should learn more about gun control laws.

That doesn't stop me from sharing my current view with you, trying to keep communication open so that i may understand yours.

Have you any idea how difficult it is to communicate with somebody making pronouncements on what they know little about? I try but there comes a point when it is so frustrating....

Prisoners do not have the "right" to bear arms.

As this example. I am simply going to answer yes they do becasue I know you have not researched your claim. Start by telling me at what point was this right stripped from them by the constitution?

An adult citizen generally has the "right" to bear arms. If they commit a crime that puts them in prison, that "right" is revoked.

Not so. Constitutional rights cannot be revoked. There is no power given by the constitution to revoke rights. I defy you to show me where it is.

The revoke forces the second amendment to more accurately be described as a privilege. If we consider it this way, we can say that the "right" to bear arms is a very strong privilege, meaning that the government can only very rarely revoke that privilege.

You are running on empty and an unproven claim.