When is it too late to have an abortion?

[Scrabaholic]

Mines over 80 years old and was signed by both my Mother and Father. Perhaps not all States require that? Perhaps each and every State should require both a Mother and a Father accept responsibility for a new born child.

What if the father isn't known or it's not known where he is or what his full name is?

 

[Josie]

I am not an extremist in not wanting the govt involved.

You are an extremist in being for abortions up to birth according to many (most?) pro-choicers.

 

[Scrabaholic]

You are an extremist in being for abortions up to birth according to many (most?) pro-choicers.

Prove it.

 

[Josie]

Prove it.

Prove my opinion? LOL!

 

[Individual]

If a pregnant woman's obstetrician expects her baby to be naturally viable long-term (defined by medical doctors, not lawyers), it is in the state's interest to keep the fetus alive. So if at all possible, a severely deformed or likely nonviable fetus should be aborted prior to when most babies are expected to be viable without artificial assistance. But if a stillbirth is expected, forcing the mother to wait until her fetus dies naturally is in nobody's interest.

In what way is it in the State's interest to keep the fetus alive, if the Woman decides she wants to have an abortion?
And should even a Doctor have a say over the choice of the Woman?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Prove my opinion? LOL!

So, you admit it's not fact?

 

[Josie]

So, you admit it's not fact?

Well, yes. It's an opinion, like I said. The word "extremist" isn't something that can be qualitatively or quantitatively measured, right?

All movements have an extreme branch. For the pro-choice side, it's abortion being perfectly fine up until birth with no exceptions at all. The majority of pro-choicers aren't for that. For the pro-life side, it's against abortion for any and all reasons (including emergencies like ectopic pregnancies). Most pro-lifers aren't for that.

You are an extremist on your side. You don't think of yourself as a extremist. What extremist ever does?

 

[Individual]

What if the father isn't known or it's not known where he is or what his full name is?

Should be required if the Woman seeks government aid in supporting a child.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Well, yes. It's an opinion, like I said. The word "extremist" isn't something that can be qualitatively or quantitatively measured, right?

All movements have an extreme branch. For the pro-choice side, it's abortion being perfectly fine up until birth with no exceptions at all. The majority of pro-choicers aren't for that. For the pro-life side, it's against abortion for any and all reasons (including emergencies like ectopic pregnancies). Most pro-lifers aren't for that.

You are an extremist on your side. You don't think of yourself as a extremist. What extremist ever does?

Name calling will get you nowhere.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Should be required if the Woman seeks government aid in supporting a child.

So, if she doesn't know or can't find him, the child starves?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

An embryo doesn't get to decide whether or not it inhabits another person's body. If you want the thing so bad let's work on a medical procedure to transplant the fetus into your body so you can carry it to term for nine months and see how you feel about it. Oh, and then if you try and get rid of it so you don't have to raise it you get shamed by society for that too.

Now that is an interesting idea: Save human lives by doing embryo transplants. But that would require transplanting the entire uterus to another woman's body, so it is only safe for identical twins with no epigenetic differences.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

In what way is it in the State's interest to keep the fetus alive, if the woman decides she wants to have an abortion? And should even a doctor have a say over the choice of the woman?

The state's interest is in liability if an obstetrician murders a baby, of course. But there is another one: failed abortions that result in disabling a baby they tried to kill. Some people have cerebral palsy because they are "abortion survivors."

 

[Individual]

The state's interest is in liability if an obstetrician murders a baby, of course. But there is another one: failed abortions that result in disabling a baby they tried to kill. Some people have cerebral palsy because they are "abortion survivors."

What liability is that? There should be no failed abortions.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

What liability is that? There should be no failed abortions.

Of course there should be no failed abortions, but they do happen.

 

[Individual]

So, if she doesn't know or can't find him, the child starves?

Or she could move to Canada. Aren't we getting a little far from the threads topic?

 

[Individual]

Of course there should be no failed abortions, but they do happen.

They need not, but the Doctor should be held liable if one was to occur.
The simple solution would be for time of birth to be defined as being when the umbilical is cut.
Prior to that time an abortion would occur.
How often do abortions take place at a very late date in a pregnancy?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Or she could move to Canada. Aren't we getting a little far from the threads topic?

I'm not the one who took it off course. I do notice the evasion, though.

 

[Individual]

I'm not the one who took it off course. I do notice the evasion, though.

If the Woman honestly doesn't know or refuses to name the Father, then the newborns DNA record should be acquired, numbered, stored securely, and recorded in the location of the birth certificate naming the Father for future use if ever needed.

Every child has both a Mother and a Father who contributed to their existence.
It's a shame DNA didn't exist 2000 years ago, maybe then the so called virgin birth could have been identified as resulting from a Roman soldier. But save any comment on that for a thread in "Beliefs and Skepticism"

Now back to abortion?

 

[Scrabaholic]

If the Woman honestly doesn't know or refuses to name the Father, then the newborns DNA record should be acquired, numbered, stored securely, and recorded in the location of the birth certificate naming the Father for future use if ever needed.

Every child has both a Mother and a Father who contributed to their existence.
It's a shame DNA didn't exist 2000 years ago, maybe then the so called virgin birth could have been identified as resulting from a Roman soldier. But save any comment on that for a thread in "Beliefs and Skepticism"

Now back to abortion?

I don't think that would pass a constitutional challenge.

Back to abortion - it is and should be a woman's choice.

 

[Individual]

I don't think that would pass a constitutional challenge.

Back to abortion - it is and should be a woman's choice.

So we are both Pro Choice then.

 

[uptower]

Abortion is a bugbear, a straw-man to claim the moral high ground against a 'decadent' modern generation, when they are against human rights, public health, child welfare etc, on almost every other level.

If the life of the mother is seriously at stake then likely that of the fetus is as well so exceptions for late abortions should be - and are - made in these cases. Even in red states where it's "illegal" no lily-white republican churchgoer is going to risk their daughter's life for a pseudo-religious political scorecard. When the doctors warn what's at stake even the evangelicals are suddenly on board.

So why are we having this "discussion" again? Because the right love to raise the spectre of voluntary late-term abortion - though it is exceedingly rare and only done in medical emergencies - as a gateway to shortening the term. It's a foot in the door. If they can knock several weeks off at a time pretty soon they'll be outlawing Plan B, condoms, pulling out or saying "no" as soon as the postman gets a twinkle in his eye - and that's the real goal: restricting a woman's right to choose.

The vast majority of abortions are undertaken shortly after a woman finds out she's pregnant, and while it is safe to do so; usually in the window when a miscarriage might occur anyway - unfortunate for those looking forward to a child but a natural part of the process. take those abortions up with 'God' whichever one you choose. Any later than that and it's usually a medical concern, which is fine by me in those circumstances too.

"Should" a woman choose to have an abortion just because she gets cold feet at week 26? I dunno, does anyone really do that? Again I think it's so rare that the conservatives are just using the fear, and their entire pro-life stance as an excuse to start whittling way at the edges.

 

[weaver2]

........."Should" a woman choose to have an abortion just because she gets cold feet at week 26? I dunno, does anyone really do that? Again I think it's so rare that the conservatives are just using the fear, and their entire pro-life stance as an excuse to start whittling way at the edges.

You are right on both counts: nobody is getting abortions on demand at 26 weeks and conservatives are using the images of late term abortions to keep antagonism going against any women who get any abortion at any time.

Twenty-six weeks is 3 weeks past the time when a fetus can survive outside the womb. A doc might deliver the fetus but he would lose his license to practice if he performed an abortion on a healthy, normal 26 week fetus. Ask Dr. Gosnell what happens to a doctor that does that.

 

[bluesmoke]

Maybe you need to learn how to debate. People are more likely to respond appropriately if a thread begins with the medical facts instead of an opinionated rant. I did not make any demands in the OP.

The first reply was stupid because it had absolutely nothing to do with abortion. My intent was clear: Have a civil discussion based on the biological facts alone, not your religion or beliefs about society.

Exactly what did I say, and please quote me, that was false, and why?

 

[Individual]

After the kid turns 21 and leaves home.

Hasn't the age been raised to 25 now?
IMO, a woman has the Right to choose an abortion at any time prior to birth, and perhaps by law should continue to have that Right even immediately after birth if/when unforeseen circumstances are presented.

 

[Bodi]

Then what did you mean by saying that 23-24 weeks is too late?

After the baby is born it is too late for an abortion...