When are you old enough to make an informed major life-long decision?

[Chomsky]

This poll brings to mind recent discussions about child marriage and I'm wondering, if a state says a 12 year old can marry with parental consent, why can't parents have the right to allow their children to receive gender affirming care? Just a thought.

After I typed one of my earlier posts, the above occurred to me as well.

Though12 years old? Surely there's no state allowing 12 year old to marry? I thought 16 was the minimum.

 

[Gatsby]

In terms of something that will effect the rest of your life.

This strikes me as something that is relevant for debates over student loans as well as surgery for transgender-kids.

Also applies, to a lesser degree, to things like Tattoos, and, an argument could be made, enlisting in the military.

18 for most things. But it depends how major and irrevocable the decision is.

 

[Gatsby]

Though12 years old? Surely there's no state allowing 12 year old to marry? I thought 16 was the minimum.

There are still a handful of states that have no minimum age at all.

 

[Atomic Kid]

In terms of something that will effect the rest of your life.

This strikes me as something that is relevant for debates over student loans as well as surgery for transgender-kids.

Also applies, to a lesser degree, to things like Tattoos, and, an argument could be made, enlisting in the military.

This is really mostly all about the transgender thing, isn't it?

 

[Captain Mars]

After I typed one of my earlier posts, the above occurred to me as well.

Though12 years old? Surely there's no state allowing 12 year old to marry? I thought 16 was the minimum.

It's been changing, but until last summer Massachusetts allowed for girls 12 years old to marry with parental consent.

 

[Captain Mars]

Analysis of State Laws on Minimum Marriage Age and Exceptions Permitting Marriage Under Age 18

The link above is a table showing the state requirements for child marriages.

 

[Chomsky]

There are still a handful of states that have no minimum age at all.

I'd need a cite on that.

 

[Chomsky]

It's been changing, but until last summer Massachusetts allowed for girls 12 years old to marry with parental consent.

Geezus. When was that established? Before the Union? Unbelievable!

 

[Captain Mars]

I'd need a cite on that.

It's in the table I posted. Post #31

 

[Ginger Ale]

In terms of something that will effect the rest of your life.

This strikes me as something that is relevant for debates over student loans as well as surgery for transgender-kids.

Also applies, to a lesser degree, to things like Tattoos, and, an argument could be made, enlisting in the military.

Kids can get plastic surgery, no law against it. That lasts a lifetime. Does little Katie know she want's double D's in high school?

People make decisions all the time, and sometimes they are good ones, and sometimes they're bad ones. It's not my business.

This smells like an anti trans healthcare thread to me......a sneaky one at that. Why not just get to your point?

 

[Chomsky]

It's in the table I posted. Post #31

Well, I'll be damned! Thanks.

It looks like there's 8 states that indeed don't have a minimum age for marriage, but there is a caveat: The one's I checked require a judge's order under a minimum age.

I suppose I could accept that in the case of sex reassignment. At least it would be consistent with the marital laws and there'd be judicial oversight.

Sure did learn something here, though. It's pretty shocking, to be honest.

 

[Gatsby]

I'd need a cite on that.

Marriage age in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The map is from 2020 so some of the state laws may have changed since then. There are more states than I thought with no minimum age at all. In fact there are more states with no minimum age than states that ban child marriage outright. Looks like only MN, PA, NJ, and DE ban minors from getting married in all circumstances. It seems to me that the other 46 states should do likewise. Even the edge cases for minors getting married don't seem like very compelling reasons for it to be legal IMO.

 

[Chomsky]

View attachment 67445493

Marriage age in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The map is from 2020 so some of the state laws may have changed since then. There are more states than I thought with no minimum age at all. In fact there are more states with no minimum age than states that ban child marriage outright. Looks like only MN, PA, NJ, and DE ban minors from getting married in all circumstances. It seems to me that the other 46 states should do likewise. Even the edge cases for minors getting married don't seem like very compelling reasons for it to be legal IMO.

Thanks. I got the data from another post upthread, too.

I will say though, of the several "no minimum age" states I checked, they all required judge's orders below minimum age, so thank God there's at least that.

Still bad news though, IMO. What are they thinking?

 

[Gatsby]

Thanks. I got the data from another post upthread, too.

I will say though, of the several "no minimum age" states I checked, they all required judge's orders below minimum age, so thank God there's at least that.

Still bad news though, IMO. What are they thinking?

Yup, some of these states become hotspots for creepers shopping around for a marriage venue with a pliant judge. Missouri used to be notorious for this, with creeps coming to one specific part of Missouri from all over the country to marry their child brides. Looks like Missouri finally raised the minimum to 16, so hopefully there is less of that now. But the creeps will probably just shop around for another judge in another state.

 

[Gatsby]

Kids can get plastic surgery, no law against it. That lasts a lifetime. Does little Katie know she want's double D's in high school?

I think minors should not be allowed to get boob jobs.

People make decisions all the time, and sometimes they are good ones, and sometimes they're bad ones. It's not my business.

I think it very much is the state's business to protect minors from their own bad decisions and/or bad parenting.

This smells like an anti trans healthcare thread to me......a sneaky one at that. Why not just get to your point?

I agree that sex changes for minors should be banned, for exactly the same reason that boob jobs for minors should be banned. (In fact the sex change process often involves a boob job.)

 

[Ginger Ale]

I think minors should not be allowed to get boob jobs.

I think it very much is the state's business to protect minors from their own bad decisions and/or bad parenting.

I agree that sex changes for minors should be banned, for exactly the same reason that boob jobs for minors should be banned. (In fact the sex change process often involves a boob job.)

Then why aren't Republicans demanding all cosmetic surgery be illegal until 18? Why pick on the very few trans youth who get it? Doesn't look very good you know, looks like they're just targeting trans because they're phobic.

 

[Gatsby]

Then why aren't Republicans demanding all cosmetic surgery be illegal until 18?

I dunno, you'd have to ask them? I'm on board with banning all cosmetic surgery until 18. What's the argument against it?

Why pick on the very few trans youth who get it?

It is not "picking on" young people to tell them they have to wait until they are 18 to get a dick graft, or a boob job, or a face tattoo, or to get married. It's protecting them from making dumb, irreversible life choices at an age when minors frequently make dumb, irreversible choices.

Doesn't look very good you know, looks like they're just targeting trans because they're phobic.

I guess I'm tattoo-phobic because I also don't want them getting face tattoos. I'm pedo-phobic because I don't think underage kids should get married. You know what...if that's what being phobic entails, then I'm OK with that.

 

[Chomsky]

Yup, some of these states become hotspots for creepers shopping around for a marriage venue with a pliant judge. Missouri used to be notorious for this, with creeps coming to one specific part of Missouri from all over the country to marry their child brides. Looks like Missouri finally raised the minimum to 16, so hopefully there is less of that now. But the creeps will probably just shop around for another judge in another state.

When I was in high school, admittedly a long time ago, there was a rash of high school kids from the neighborhood public school running across the nearby state line to be married!

I don't know how they were doing it, but they were teens in high school. Several were due to pregnancies, including one newly married couple I knew of. Despite the pregnancy, the parents forbid them to marry, so they ran off & did it anyway. In high school! These over-the-state-line underage marriages occurred multiple times over one summer, and the kids knew the courthouse to go to and how to do it. And then the poor parents had to figure-out how to undo it!

It was literally crazy shyte! And apparently it was legal in the adjoining state, if the kids had the right documentation.

Marone! Imagine being the parent? Your high school kid comes home announcing they married their classmate? Whoo boy!

I forgot about this over the years, and only remember it hazily & vaguely. But, it was the damndest thing I ever saw. Goofy high school kids infectiously spurring each other on to get married!

 

[post]

@ 17 I decided I would refuse to cooperate with Selective Service, @ 21 agreed with new wife to seek an abortion to terminate an unplanned pregnancy.

Either decision would have been much more difficult if even a few years older, knowing what I know now, but I remember it taking everything I could summon to
arrive at those decisions and to avoid second guessing myself into profound uncertainty or regret, after.

Deciding to participate in a threesome at age 19 with a couple I had been in the wedding party of only seven months before left me with guilt and second guessing unlike
any other decision during that transition period from adolescent to young adult but I would do it over because it got easier with repeat incidents and resulted ten years later
after they divorced with a mutually enriching, one on one reunion with my female feiend of that former couple. Shared an understanding experienced with no other.

 

[cpwill]

It is important to note that in almost every situation, the parents do have final say, and that gender reassignment is done to those under 18 extremely rarely(I looked it up once and over a 3 year period, 2019 through 2021, it was done under 20 times), and only when the history of the child and their psychological evaluation is that they are most likely to self-harm(ie, attempt suicide).

There is a lot of hysteria about minor trans people, but it is hysteria mostly.

That's interesting. Did the same source have data for minors on puberty blockers, or hormones?

 

[Redress]

That's interesting. Did the same source have data for minors on puberty blockers, or hormones?

Not that I remember. I will try and remember to look it up tomorrow.

 

[Jason Warfield]

In terms of something that will effect the rest of your life.

This strikes me as something that is relevant for debates over student loans as well as surgery for transgender-kids.

Also applies, to a lesser degree, to things like Tattoos, and, an argument could be made, enlisting in the military.

Depends on the issue.

The problem with this poll is that it assumes a blanket age statement when real life doesn't work like that.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

First very important decision is college and if so what are you going to major in.

I remember thinking 'Pick a career; who said that I wanted one?'

 

[Sweden]

In terms of something that will effect the rest of your life.

This strikes me as something that is relevant for debates over student loans as well as surgery for transgender-kids.

Also applies, to a lesser degree, to things like Tattoos, and, an argument could be made, enlisting in the military.

Women have, on average, a mental age of 30 when they are 18. With us men its the other way round.

 

[Big Brother]

The way we see it, if kids as young as 12 are certainly mature enough to decide to undergo sex change surgery without their parents permission, they are ready to be adults. Actually, why not just call anyone who has passed elementary school a legal adult? We say let them go serve in the military. In fact, as we race toward WWIII we will definitely need to reinstate the draft and those 12 year olds will be needed, male and female and trans. While we are at it, we think if a child is mature enough to decide to change their sex, that child is now mature enough to drive a car, buy a bottle of tequila and an AK-47. They should also be allowed to vote, work, get credit cards, and have as many abortions as they can. If they commit a political crime they should be tried as an adult and put in adult prisons. Thinking this through, when kids are mature enough to know that their gender is wrong, the job of parenting is over and parents should not have to support their children anymore and are free to kick them out of the house, as they have just become deadbeat adults. You may ask, "where would they go?" The military needs them to go fight Putin and Jinping. Pondering further, why are parents even necessary? Don't you think today's elementary school teachers are so much more qualified to raise children? Why can't we just give birth and as the nurse takes the little mistake away, just say "Good Luck!" Moreover, why are there children? Why weren't they aborted? For those that somehow slip through the abortion cracks, thank Biden that there are very qualified kindergarten teachers to encourage those survivors to become trans.

P.S. I sincerely apologize in advance if I misgendered anyone in this post. My pronouns are WE/US/OUR and please respect them if you choose to reply to my brilliant ideas.