What's your position on School Choice?

[Blue Dog]

I do NOT support a church having tax exempt status. there is no reason for it. It came about because the church is/was so powerful and 95% of America used to be Christian, now down to 65% and I think even lower. The crazy "religion" Scientology has tax exempt status and has amassed billions because of it.

Ok, so we do not see eye to eye here.

I was essentially raised by nuns and when I went to public school in the ninth grade in California, they were teaching things I learned in the third grade. The nuns took no guff and called your parents if you were slacking. Public schools no longer have the ability to reprimand students because of the ACLU.

So it sounds like this was a positive.

 

[nota bene]

"They **** you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you."

Link

I'm always impressed by the right-wing's mania for regulating schools but unregulating home schooling.

Scary stuff.

I'm always impressed by people who know who Philip Larkin is.

 

[Helix]

the public education is already destroyed,, thats why vouchers are even being talked about,,

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[gbg3]

And next, can schools filter students for admission?

Well, in a sense, they already do. I used to live in a blue state, and even within the public school system, choice was an option and a competitive sport. The high performing public schools had parents working hard to get their children enrolled in those specific schools. I don't know what the criteria was, probably early application and then luck of being drawn, but many students wanting to attend the "better" public schools were denied because of how quickly they filled up with children with very motivated and prompt parents.

 

[rational anarchist]

Agree. The issue is how to get some of the GOP who control the State House and Senate to do that.
So far their answer in Arizona is to come up with the voucher program. It is not working.

well they wouldnt need a voucher system if what they had was working now would they??

 

[Ginger Ale]

No argument here.



Because the church receives a tax exempt status which I happen to support. I do not agree that an institution that gets an exception to paying taxes should be able to receive vouchers supported by tax payers.

Yes, it's a bit of a double dip isn't it.

 

[nota bene]

your lack of knowledge is not my concern,,

And your response suggests that you either don't have the facts or are unwilling to share them. Why would that be?

 

[rational anarchist]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

not an opinion,,

vouchers wouldnt even be talked about let alone implemented if public schools were working,,

 

[rational anarchist]

And your response suggests that you either don't have the facts or are unwilling to share them. Why would that be?

I did share them in the link that had several examples,,

 

[ttwtt78640]

I would say its up to the people,,

after all the elected officials are there to do our bidding,,

OK, but you seem to have a problem with “our” elected officials’ decisions.

 

[rational anarchist]

OK, but you seem to have a problem with “our” elected officials’ decisions.

not the ones that re promoting vouchers,,

 

[Blue Dog]

Yes, it's a bit of a double dip isn't it.

And for purposes of discussion, I would support the inverse. If the church wants to give up its tax exempt status then I would support tax funded vouchers. Fair is fair.

 

[Ginger Ale]

well they wouldnt need a voucher system if what they had was working now would they??

Well, you see, charter schools are big business here and people get greedy. This is the side effect of letting business teach your child. There are benefits and of course there are problems with it. I sent one of my kids to a charter school for a while, but it closed down after a few years. There are a ton of these charters in AZ, you see one on every corner and they are often money mills. Kids are in and out the door at a faster pace than public but, you do get to pick fancy stuff like schools with specialty areas. Art schools are popular as are traditional learning schools that the republicans love!

 

[nota bene]

That only counts home schooled kids who go on to college.

And so?

 

[ttwtt78640]

the public education is already destroyed,, thats why vouchers are even being talked about,,

The quality of local public schools varies considerably as does the availability of local private school alternatives.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Well, in a sense, they already do. I used to live in a blue state, and even within the public school system, choice was an option and a competitive sport. The high performing public schools had parents working hard to get their children enrolled in those specific schools. I don't know what the criteria was, probably early application and then luck of being drawn, but many students wanting to attend the "better" public schools were denied because of how quickly they filled up with children with very motivated and prompt parents.

I guess “first come first serve” is sort of a filter.

But I was thinking of criteria other than simply applying.

 

[ttwtt78640]

And for purposes of discussion, I would support the inverse. If the church wants to give up its tax exempt status then I would support tax funded vouchers. Fair is fair.

WTF? Are public schools not tax exempt?

 

[ttwtt78640]

not the ones that re promoting vouchers,,

OK, but they seem to be in the minority.

 

[Ginger Ale]

It's a gamble. Basis is a "gifted" charter that has done extremely well here. Students are hand picked based on grades and there is a long long waiting list to get in. But, like all business, some fail miserably. So, pick wisely so your kid doesn't lose their school have way through the year.

Charter schools are big business. Who's making money off public education?

The Arizona Republic reveals what charter schools don't tell parents. See the ongoing investigation here

www.azcentral.com

With Arizona public schools struggling to raise students' standardized test scores, the Legislature in 1994 began a grand experiment: charter schools.

They were exempted from state procurement or conflict-of-interest laws and the oversight of elected boards. With less regulation, charters could succeed where traditional public schools had failed, proponents argued.

Today, about 16 percent of Arizona students attend a charter school. And one of the state's big chains, Basis, operates some of the best public schools in the country.


But not all charters are academic powerhouses, and some have turned into cash cows through multi-million-dollar business deals between charter schools and their founders.

With funding for Arizona traditional public schools ranking near the bottom nationally, charter school critics say the state can ill afford to let profiteers line their pockets with funds that should go to the classroom. Some argue charters should have to be as transparent about their spending as traditional public schools.

 

[nota bene]

Highlights of statistics on homeschooling:

1. There are 3.7 million homeschooled students in the U.S.
2. The states with the most homeschoolers are North Carolina, Florida, and Georgia.
3. The top reason for homeschooling is a concern about the school environment.
4. Homeschool students outperform institutional school students academically.
5. The highest homeschooling rate is among students with a grade equivalent of 6 to 8.
6. 48% of homeschooling households have three or more children.
7. The average cost of homeschooling is $700-$1,800 per student annually.
8. 1 in 3 homeschooling households has an annual income of over $100,000.
9. Homeschooling saves about $56 billion of taxpayer money annually. https://babwell.com/homeschooling/

Success in the “Real World” of Adulthood​

The research base on adults who were home educated is growing; thus far it indicates that:

• 69% of peer-reviewed studies on success into adulthood (including college) show adults who were home educated succeed and perform statistically significantly better than those who attended institutional schools (Ray, 2017),
• they participate in local community service more frequently than does the general population (e.g., Seiver & Pope, 2022),
• these adults vote and attend public meetings more frequently than the general population,
• they go to college at a similar rate and succeed at college at an equal or higher rate than the general population, and
• by adulthood, they internalize the values and beliefs of their parents at a high rate. https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/

 

[mike2810]

The Arizona voucher program has had a major impact on the State budget. It may not be a good of program as some politicians claim it is.

"Arizona does not require that private schools or microschools demonstrate any measure of quality or accuracy of instruction. Schools do not need to be accredited, teachers do not need to have any credentials or training, and schools do not need to teach to state standards. The state does not test any voucher students, and there is no indication whether students are learning and performing according to grade level."
read://https_www.forbes.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fpetergreene%2F2024%2F01%2F12%2Freport-arizonas-voucher-report-card-shows-much-room-for-improvement%2F


"The Arizona Attorney General’s Office is investigating the state’s school voucher program for alleged illegal payments that were approved without documentation required by state law.

Arizona AG investigating school voucher program for illegal payments

The Arizona Attorney General’s Office is investigating the state’s school voucher program for alleged illegal payments that were approved without documentation required by state law.

azmirror.com

imo, the voucher program is having a negative impact on public schools. I have been in Arizona for 35 years. The State Legislature has never fully supported the public school to the level they should supported. We have teacher vacancies, low pay, etc.

 

[rational anarchist]

OK, but they seem to be in the minority.

its amazing how in a big country like ours in one place things can be great and another is struggling to stay alive,,

thats why we dont need a one size fits all,,

 

[Ginger Ale]

Reporter explains The Republic's investigation of Arizona charter schools

Charter schools have become more popular in recent years. Reporter Craig Harris talks about investigating Arizona's charter schools.

www.azcentral.com

 

[Bubber]

I did share them in the link that had several examples,,

I think @nota bene was referring to your original snarky response before you actually attempted to provide examples... It's easier to take you seriously if you present a serious argument.

 

[nota bene]

I think @nota bene was referring to your original snarky response before you actually attempted to provide examples... It's easier to take you seriously if you present a serious argument.

Yes, I directly responded to his prior "your lack of knowledge is not my concern."