What's It All Really About?

[Renae]

Never said anything of the sort. I just have problems with folks like you who assume a faux superiority and call others cowards.

I'm sorry, what else do you call people that refuse to take a position? You need to back down, Tashah. I was going after the pure "no stance centrist" not anyone that happens to have that tag here at DP. That or I hit WAY too close to home and you are rushing headlong to stem the damage done.

 

[Tashah]

I've always felt, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

Oh, I feel the same way. I just have an aversion to partisan-card-carrying-lemmings who always stand precisely where they are told to stand.

IMHO, those are the actual political/intellectual cowards.

 

[BamaBrat]

I dont know about anyone else, but I dont come here to DP to only give you an opinion and think that im so superior that you must believe it. I come here to DP to learn. I come here to see what all the different opinions on a subject are and why people believe them. I come here because if I want more information on a subject, a vast array of info can be found here. I think a lot of people, not just here but all over the world, are so partisan that if you deviate from their way of thinking for a second, you are discounted, you are demeaned, you are talked down to. Just look at what happens when someone in here says they believe in God or dont believe in God, it gets personal, its not about beliefs, its about downing the other guys opinion. Its sad really, because after that starts, the real discussion stops cold.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

Oh, I feel the same way. I just have an aversion to partisan-card-carrying-lemmings who always stand precisely where they are told to stand.

IMHO, those are the actual political/intellectual cowards.

I'm not asking anyone to stand behind door number one or door number two as their only two opinions. If you are very pro gun but also pro abortion, then by golly stand behind those two choices. Defend yourself. An undefended opinion is not worth the text to read it. You could be pro-small gov't and anti gun. I don't care WHAT you are, just be WHO you are.

 

[BentWingedAngel]

Criticism is prejudice made plausible.
H. L. Mencken

 

[makkam]

I dont know about anyone else, but I dont come here to DP to only give you an opinion and think that im so superior that you must believe it. I come here to DP to learn. I come here to see what all the different opinions on a subject are and why people believe them. I come here because if I want more information on a subject, a vast array of info can be found here. I think a lot of people, not just here but all over the world, are so partisan that if you deviate from their way of thinking for a second, you are discounted, you are demeaned, you are talked down to. Just look at what happens when someone in here says they believe in God or dont believe in God, it gets personal, its not about beliefs, its about downing the other guys opinion. Its sad really, because after that starts, the real discussion stops cold.

Let me ask you a question, if you feel you are on the right side of an issue, let's say... Gun Control, doesn't matter what side, just pick one for this. Are you going to meet that guy that pops into your thread half way?

I find the position of "I'm not taking a side here, you're both wrong" and then not offering your own opinion on the issue to be the wasted post. You either stand for something, or you don't. The wishy washy middle is for cowards.

I agree to an extent. It's not that I thought everyone should come to a middle ground all the time, it's that there never seems to be a middle ground. All posts seem to boil down to red vs blue or a more personal me vs you. It's good that a person is willing to stand their ground regardless- even noble- but what if they're standing in lava or dog poop? It looks really silly then.

But I get your point. The posts do reflect how a person is thinking and why they think that way for the most part, and like LewsTherin said, I come seeing how my own opinion fairs against other thinkers opinions. It's not cowardly, though, to come to terms when your position may not be totally sound or someone is offering good points contrasting your own. It's more a process, to me, of seeing if we can take everyone's opinions and distill a sort of universal truth from it. Like Lincoln said, "There's my side, your side, and the truth."

 

[BamaBrat]

I agree to an extent. It's not that I thought everyone should come to a middle ground all the time, it's that there never seems to be a middle ground. All posts seem to boil down to red vs blue or a more personal me vs you. It's good that a person is willing to stand their ground regardless- even noble- but what if they're standing in lava or dog poop? It looks really silly then.

But I get your point. The posts do reflect how a person is thinking and why they think that way for the most part, and like LewsTherin said, I come seeing how my own opinion fairs against other thinkers opinions. It's not cowardly, though, to come to terms when your position may not be totally sound or someone is offering good points contrasting your own. It's more a process, to me, of seeing if we can take everyone's opinions and distill a sort of universal truth from it. Like Lincoln said, "There's my side, your side, and the truth."

There have been plenty of times that my opinion on a subject has either changed or i became even more convinced that what i believed was right after finding out more information here in DP and in other places. Thinking everyone is going to come here and find a "middle ground" is silly, because what a person believes is what they believe. But i do believe that we can all discuss ideas without it getting so "personal". For instance, my husband and I disagree on abortion issues, I know why he believes what he believes, he knows why I believe the way I do, but I dont think my husband is wrong or stupid for believing what he does; its just a different opinion. (and we have plenty of debate and discussion on the topic. LOL)

 

[Objective Voice]

Does anyone else get the impression that the issues we are arguing about don't really matter? That the issues of the posts merely tend to be different arena's for republicans/conservatives and democrats/liberals to throw jabs at each other.

It seems less like a discussion and more like trench warfare where no one is willing to give ground on their own ideas or actually come to some sort of middle ground.

While I do believe our national (and state) politics nowadays tend to be more about "gotta get my jabs in" rather than "doing what's in the best interest of the people via a joint concesus," I do believe there are issues we should remain firm on (i.e., freedom of movement across the country w/o card checks or check points) versus things we can compromise on (i.e., gun control laws, abortion rights, etc.).

I have my believes concerning the latter two issues, but I'm not such a staunch Liberal to think there isn't room for compromise on most issues. One of the reasons I came to this forum was to learn; the other to teach. I've learned alot from others and I hope I've taught readers a few things as well. But it is the exchange of ideals that keep me coming back even if someone totally disagrees with me. My hope is somewhere along the line I can impart reason into matters I believe are important not just in my views but also in current events. But regardless of where I stand on the issues, there are few things I am unwilling to meet someone half-way concerning a matter. The trick is are they willing to do the same? If not, we get gridlock which is where our Congress seems to be - that and both sides just have to get their jabs in. I try to refrain from doing that, but sometimes...:censored

 

[Gina]

Heh. Neither is marching in lockstep with one of two "big tent" political parties that don't have one.

As far as party, I vote the party most closely aligned with my personal ideology. It's the only practical thing to do. I can't fully support the party line and so I don't argue those points on which I disagree.

 

[Gina]

I argue for three reasons. The first is for entertainment. The second is to improve my own views by testing them and seeing if they stand up. The third is for the benefit of lurkers and observers. I don't expect to change the mind of the person I'm actually arguing with. With regards to meeting people halfway, how's that working out for Obama? What we need are people willing to take a stand on things, not people who will just go belly up for the opposition.

I agree except, I come here first to test my own views, then entertainment.

Reading the opinions of those who are diametrically opposed to mine is helpful to keep things in perspective. Exposure to only those who think the same and hold the same beliefs is stifling.

 

[Objective Voice]

There have been plenty of times that my opinion on a subject has either changed or i became even more convinced that what i believed was right after finding out more information here in DP and in other places. Thinking everyone is going to come here and find a "middle ground" is silly, because what a person believes is what they believe. But i do believe that we can all discuss ideas without it getting so "personal". For instance, my husband and I disagree on abortion issues, I know why he believes what he believes, he knows why I believe the way I do, but I dont think my husband is wrong or stupid for believing what he does; its just a different opinion. (and we have plenty of debate and discussion on the topic. LOL)

So right, suga. (kisses)

Using the example of abortions, I believe life begins once the fetus is able to breath on its own. What justifies this for me?

Genenis 2:7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

But others including those who claim to be God-fearing (particularly those of the Religious-Right) tend to take a different position, that life begins at conception. As such, they use other versus from the Bible to justify their position:

Psalm 127:3

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Ecclesiastes 11:5

As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

Isaiah 44:2

Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee...

Understand, I am NOT attempting to turn this into yet another thread on the issue of abortion, but rather to illustrate how some people use Scripture to justify their position. But for what it's worth in my view there is a difference between creation (or rather the developmental process) and "life" itself. But I digress...

We all have differences of opinion. For some, the goal post is immovable no matter the issue. For others (like myself), there is room for compromise.

 

[Renae]

I agree to an extent. It's not that I thought everyone should come to a middle ground all the time, it's that there never seems to be a middle ground. All posts seem to boil down to red vs blue or a more personal me vs you. It's good that a person is willing to stand their ground regardless- even noble- but what if they're standing in lava or dog poop? It looks really silly then.

But I get your point. The posts do reflect how a person is thinking and why they think that way for the most part, and like LewsTherin said, I come seeing how my own opinion fairs against other thinkers opinions. It's not cowardly, though, to come to terms when your position may not be totally sound or someone is offering good points contrasting your own. It's more a process, to me, of seeing if we can take everyone's opinions and distill a sort of universal truth from it. Like Lincoln said, "There's my side, your side, and the truth."

Honestly, I have respect for people who stand their convictions more then I do those with none who "stay above the fray and am not beholden to either side!" yet they never... say where they stand on an issue.

What I think you're referring too are those folks who, when faced with if not absolute proof something they are saying is wrong, but at the least extremely convincing evidence that something they are saying si dead wrong refuse to admit that there is a problem... or those that push the party line, as if you could take their posts from the latest talking points memo put out by whichever political party they back lock stock and barrel.

What get's my goat is someone like me, a "Strong Conservative" is believed to also = "Blind Republican". I'm not. I've eviscerated the party a number of times on a host of issues. I just won't go the independent/3rd party route nationally because that's a path of folly. (I do support locally)

 

[BamaBrat]

Honestly, I have respect for people who stand their convictions more then I do those with none who "stay above the fray and am not beholden to either side!" yet they never... say where they stand on an issue.

What I think you're referring too are those folks who, when faced with if not absolute proof something they are saying is wrong, but at the least extremely convincing evidence that something they are saying si dead wrong refuse to admit that there is a problem... or those that push the party line, as if you could take their posts from the latest talking points memo put out by whichever political party they back lock stock and barrel.

What get's my goat is someone like me, a "Strong Conservative" is believed to also = "Blind Republican". I'm not. I've eviscerated the party a number of times on a host of issues. I just won't go the independent/3rd party route nationally because that's a path of folly. (I do support locally)

Thats it. I would rather support a candidate or person in general who has very strong beliefs and stands up for those than a candidate who just goes with party line and cant tell you WHY he believes what he or she does. People cant be placed in neat little boxes to make anothers life easier.

 

[Renae]

Thats it. I would rather support a candidate or person in general who has very strong beliefs and stands up for those than a candidate who just goes with party line and cant tell you WHY he believes what he or she does. People cant be placed in neat little boxes to make anothers life easier.

Labels and boxes have their place, but like anything, moderation is the key to their effective usage.

 

[makkam]

Honestly, I have respect for people who stand their convictions more then I do those with none who "stay above the fray and am not beholden to either side!" yet they never... say where they stand on an issue.

What I think you're referring too are those folks who, when faced with, if not having absolute proof, something they are saying is wrong, but at the least extremely convincing evidence that something they are saying is dead wrong refuse to admit that there is a problem... or those that push the party line, as if you could take their posts from the latest talking points memo put out by whichever political party they back lock stock and barrel.

What get's my goat is someone like me, a "Strong Conservative" is believed to also = "Blind Republican". I'm not. I've eviscerated the party a number of times on a host of issues. I just won't go the independent/3rd party route nationally because that's a path of folly. (I do support locally)

In a way, yeah, lol. I don't think I've seen anyone yet who stays above the fray. If you even came to this site, you must have your own rooted opinions and you either wanted to share them (by you, i mean everyone) or "test them". Some draw a line in the dirt and outright challenge rebuttal which is fine. Actually, it makes it interesting seeing how they will defend their view.

I agree with your last statement also. There are times for a firm stand in a definite direction and their are times for moderation. I guess it's about being flexible and knowing when to be so.

And yeah, I think I am bit of a blind "whatever I'm on at the time" also. Unavoidable for some things.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

If you are very pro gun but also pro abortion, then by golly stand behind those two choices.

That's exactly what I do. Unfortunately, the only party in this country that supports both positions is also my diametric opposite, philosophically.