What's at Stake in Ukraine

[Fledermaus]

Ok so what's at stake in Ukraine? What have our nations spent billions on?
A state so corrupt that NATO rejected its membership.
A state that, up until Russia moved in, was labeled as very unsavory by the military because of their military use of neo-nazis.
A state that was apparently disposable according to Brandon from the very beginning.

Question: How is it that now this reject state is worth risking direct NATO war with Russia?

1. Helping a nation fight off an invader is a positive act.

2. A potential opponent getting their collective bags smashed is a positive.

3. A nation moving away from Russian influence and towards the EU is a positive.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Ok so what's at stake in Ukraine? What have our nations spent billions on?

Sending aid to Ukraine is not merely an act of charity; it is an economic investment here at home. Funds that lawmakers approve to arm Ukraine are being used stateside to build new weapons or to replace weapons sent to Kyiv from U.S. stockpiles. In fact, of the $68 billion in military and related assistance Congress has approved since Russia invaded Ukraine, almost 90 percent is going to Americans. The American Enterprise Institute has identified 117 production lines in at least 31 states and 71 cities where American workers are producing major weapons systems for Ukraine.

Aid for Ukraine Benefits the U.S. in More Ways Than One

As tensions escalate and democracy faces a defining test in Ukraine, it is imperative for the United States to stand firm in its commitment to support this besieged nation.

www.newsweek.com

A state so corrupt that NATO rejected its membership.

Leaders Agree to Expedite Ukraine's NATO Membership

Leaders agreed to a package that will ultimately make Ukraine a member of the alliance, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

www.defense.gov

A state that, up until Russia moved in, was labeled as very unsavory by the military because of their military use of neo-nazis.

The Azov Battalion/Regiment no longer exists.

And yet you are silent about Putin impressing convicts - murderers - into the Russian military. Even women convicts....

Russia Turns to Women's Prisons for Fresh Recruits – Reports - The Moscow Times

Russia has resorted to recruiting inmates from women's prisons to serve in the Russian military in a bid to make up for its growing losses in Ukraine, according to both Ukrainian officials and an independent Russian prisons watchdog. “Last week, a train with sleeping cars for the transfer of...

www.themoscowtimes.com

A state that was apparently disposable according to Brandon from the very beginning.

You'll have to translate the MAGA-speak. Normal folks don't subscribe to that BS.

Question: How is it that now this reject state is worth risking direct NATO war with Russia?

Providing aid to Ukraine sends a powerful message to the world that the United States stands firmly behind its allies and will not tolerate threats to democracy and freedom. In a time when authoritarianism is on the rise, it is essential for the United States to demonstrate its unwavering commitment to defending human rights, democratic values and the rules-based international order that has benefited America since the end of World War II. The NATO alliance was created specifically to thwart Russian imperialism/expansionism into Europe.

As a Putin-lover, you could not comprehend the rationale. Friends of authoritarian regime's can't quite wrap their head around the intertwined concepts of fredom and democracy.

 

[Yakshi]

Ok so what's at stake in Ukraine? What have our nations spent billions on?
A state so corrupt that NATO rejected its membership.
A state that, up until Russia moved in, was labeled as very unsavory by the military because of their military use of neo-nazis.
A state that was apparently disposable according to Brandon from the very beginning.

Question: How is it that now this reject state is worth risking direct NATO war with Russia?

When did NATO reject Ukrainian membership again? A simple date and a source is sufficient. Your opinion is irrelevant.

 

[Bugsy]

1. Helping a nation fight off an invader is a positive act.

2. A potential opponent getting their collective bags smashed is a positive.

3. A nation moving away from Russian influence and towards the EU is a positive.

1. Fine. Close your border.

2. A "potential" opponent? Lol...ya...one that has repeatedly expressed interest in joining NATO.

3. How is that positive? I watched what the EU did to Central Europe.

 

[Bugsy]

Aid for Ukraine Benefits the U.S. in More Ways Than One

As tensions escalate and democracy faces a defining test in Ukraine, it is imperative for the United States to stand firm in its commitment to support this besieged nation.

www.newsweek.com

Leaders Agree to Expedite Ukraine's NATO Membership

Leaders agreed to a package that will ultimately make Ukraine a member of the alliance, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

www.defense.gov

The Azov Battalion/Regiment no longer exists.

And yet you are silent about Putin impressing convicts - murderers - into the Russian military. Even women convicts....

Russia Turns to Women's Prisons for Fresh Recruits – Reports - The Moscow Times

Russia has resorted to recruiting inmates from women's prisons to serve in the Russian military in a bid to make up for its growing losses in Ukraine, according to both Ukrainian officials and an independent Russian prisons watchdog. “Last week, a train with sleeping cars for the transfer of...

www.themoscowtimes.com

You'll have to translate the MAGA-speak. Normal folks don't subscribe to that BS.



Providing aid to Ukraine sends a powerful message to the world that the United States stands firmly behind its allies and will not tolerate threats to democracy and freedom. In a time when authoritarianism is on the rise, it is essential for the United States to demonstrate its unwavering commitment to defending human rights, democratic values and the rules-based international order that has benefited America since the end of World War II. The NATO alliance was created specifically to thwart Russian imperialism/expansionism into Europe.

As a Putin-lover, you could not comprehend the rationale. Friends of authoritarian regime's can't quite wrap their head around the intertwined concepts of fredom and democracy.

You're right. I don't comprehend the rationale. It's irrational and dangerous.

As a common sense lover, I recognize your accusation as an attempt to get me to stop arguing that funding this war further is both immoral and damaging.

But hey...when insults and unsubstantiated accusations are all you got...

You've already lost...more than you think.

 

[Fledermaus]

1. Fine. Close your border.

We don't border Russia (Alaska ignored)

2. A "potential" opponent? Lol...ya...one that has repeatedly expressed interest in joining NATO.

Doesn't change the fact they are a potential opponent.

3. How is that positive? I watched what the EU did to Central Europe.

You can't figure this out?

Pity.

 

[Bugsy]

When did NATO reject Ukrainian membership again? A simple date and a source is sufficient. Your opinion is irrelevant.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/09/04/that-time-ukraine-tried-to-join-nato-and-nato-said-no/

Read the truth and then...do as you will.
Ukraine was rejected in 2008.

 

[Bugsy]

We don't border Russia (Alaska ignored)



Doesn't change the fact they are a potential opponent.



You can't figure this out?

Pity.

Lol...ok so...you will dance around the issues. Obviously I meant the US border but...well...you know...

I was in Prague working at the Canadian embassy while this all happened. I figured it out in real time without the MSM filters.

You?

 

[Fledermaus]

Lol...ok so...you will dance around the issues. Obviously I meant the US border but...well...you know...

I was in Prague working at the Canadian embassy while this all happened. I figured it out in real time without the MSM filters.

You?

You asked a question. I answered.

You don't like my answers?

So be it.

 

[Bugsy]

You asked a question. I answered.

You don't like my answers?

So be it.

Indeed.
So be it.

 

[Yakshi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/09/04/that-time-ukraine-tried-to-join-nato-and-nato-said-no/

Read the truth and then...do as you will.
Ukraine was rejected in 2008.

As usual, the answer is more complicated than you thought.

Ask PolitiFact: Has Ukraine tried to join NATO?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long cited NATO’s expansion into Eastern Europe as a pretext for his country’s inva

www.politifact.com

You will never find any document from NATO denying membership into NATO due to the simple fact that it doesn't exist.

NATO has ever turned down Ukraine, nor has it ever said yes.

According to NATO members who considered Ukrainian membership, a formal yes or no has never been given.

On this topic, you're out of your depth. Isn't there something about a transgender wrestler that's more up your alley?

 

[Bugsy]

As usual, the answer is more complicated than you thought.

Ask PolitiFact: Has Ukraine tried to join NATO?

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long cited NATO’s expansion into Eastern Europe as a pretext for his country’s inva

www.politifact.com

You will never find any document from NATO denying membership into NATO due to the simple fact that it doesn't exist.

NATO has ever turned down Ukraine, nor has it ever said yes.

According to NATO members who considered Ukrainian membership, a formal yes or no has never been given.

On this topic, you're out of your depth. Isn't there something about a transgender wrestler that's more up your alley?

No. Do you wanna discuss transgender wrestling? It sounds a bit kinky but...whatever turns ya on...

From the link I posted...

During NATO's 2008 summit in Bucharest, Romania, the issue was discussed and, after opposition from France and Germany, a decision was made to offer neither Ukraine nor Georgia a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) — essentially a path for Ukraine to receive membership — at that moment. Vague promises of NATO membership in the future were made, but the United States later appeared to drop its support for NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia.

Nice try...really...you get an "A" for effort but...the truth of the matter is already determined.

 

[Yakshi]

No. Do you wanna discuss transgender wrestling? It sounds a bit kinky but...whatever turns ya on...

From the link I posted...

Nice try...really...you get an "A" for effort but...the truth of the matter is already determined.

Your own link answers your question, so why are you asserting otherwise?

Do you honestly think that a "choice not to offer at that moment" is the same as a "rejection?"

If so, how and why did you ever come to think that way?

And why did you choose links that support my point rather than your own?

Why is the pro-russian contingent so defective logically?

Are they all drinking the same water?

I am honestly begging the world now to offer some pro-russian poster to argue the russian side intelligently. This entire forum has failed to produce a single soul who can do that. So if you're out there lurking, and you think you can do so, please sign up and come on over. Because what we have here is a bunch of putin-favoring half-wits who think they're full-wits.

Our current contingent of pro-russians is nothing more or less than exercise on a punching bag.

 

[Bugsy]

Your own link answers your question, so why are you asserting otherwise?

Do you honestly think that a "choice not to offer at that moment" is the same as a "rejection?"

If so, how and why did you ever come to think that way?

And why did you choose links that support my point rather than your own?

Why is the pro-russian contingent so defective logically?

Are they all drinking the same water?

I am honestly begging the world now to offer some pro-russian poster to argue the russian side intelligently. This entire forum has failed to produce a single soul who can do that. So if you're out there lurking, and you think you can do so, please sign up and come on over. Because what we have here is a bunch of putin-favoring half-wits who think they're full-wits.

Again with the insults and stupid accusations. Can you be any more desperate?

Do you honestly think that a "choice not to offer at that moment" is the same as a "rejection?"

Yes. That much is rather obvious if you're...you know...honest.

If so, how and why did you ever come to think that way?

Because it happens to be the truth.

And why did you choose links that support my point rather than your own?

Lol...do you regularly try to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat? Meh...I guess when that's all ya got...

When you post BS...you can expect me to identify it as BS.
I'm sorry if that bothers you. But the truth always wins out. Which...I must assume...is why you engage is such childish accusations.

 

[Yakshi]

Again with the insults and stupid accusations. Can you be any more desperate?


Yes. That much is rather obvious if you're...you know...honest.

Because it happens to be the truth.

Lol...do you regularly try to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat? Meh...I guess when that's all ya got...

When you post BS...you can expect me to identify it as BS.
I'm sorry if that bothers you. But the truth always wins out. Which...I must assume...is why you engage is such childish accusations.

You ask Natalie Portman out on a date.

She says, "I choose not to answer at the moment."

You go home crying because you just got rejected by Natalie Portman?

I can understand your reaction if either your first language isn't English or you are desperately trying to force a square-sized fact pattern into a round hole. That's about it. Anyone else with half a brain is calling Natalie Portman and asking her out to coffee for a second time.

I know that saying so is going to make you cement yourself into a braindead position, but your assertion is simply stupid.

Do better.

The rest of us are trying to make intelligent points. Why aren't you doing the same?

Make one intelligent post.

 

[Bugsy]

You ask Natalie Portman out on a date.

She says, "I choose not to answer at the moment."

You go home crying because you just got rejected by Natalie Portman?

I can understand your reaction if either your first language isn't English or you are desperately trying to force a square-sized fact pattern into a round hole. That's about it. Anyone else with half a brain is calling Natalie Portman and asking her out to coffee for a second time.

I know that saying so is going to make you cement yourself into a braindead position, but your assertion is simply stupid.

Do better.

The rest of us are trying to make intelligent points. Why aren't you doing the same?

Make one intelligent post.

Hilarious.
Make one truthful post. Come on...I'm sure you atheist remember what truth is like?

 

[Rogue Valley]

You're right. I don't comprehend the rationale. It's irrational and dangerous.

Freedom and democracy are "irrational and dangerous"?

Is that the MAGA cult mantra?

 

[Roadvirus]

I agree but would like to put it as “Putin’s Russia” I do hope Russia will be an ally to the west someday

Never happen.

No will or feeling the need to reform any part of it's society Post-Soviet collapse.
Stealing land from those around it through war.
Threatening other nations every other day.
Political manipulations of other nations.
Politicians who either act like dictators or commit unchecked white collar crime.

Russia is a textbook incurable case.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

On Arguments

"What proof would it take to change your mind?"
If they can't give you an answer, then stop wasting your time.

In the meantime, we will fund Ukraine and Russia will eventually lose, just like they did in Af-Pak.
No more talking, the time for talking is over as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Freedom and democracy are "irrational and dangerous"?

Is that the MAGA cult mantra?

Yes it actually is.

 

[Rogue Valley]

When you post BS...you can expect me to identify it as BS.

<sarcasm>Bugsy won't be participating anymore. A huge loss </sarcasm>