• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What would you do if you believed God wanted you to fly a plane into a skyscraper full of people?

devildavid said:
Funny, but it doesn’t answer my question. A god that wants you to kill calls into question the belief in such a god and the mental state of one who would believe in it, to the point of taking drastic action instead of deciding their belief makes n9 sense.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand the nature of the relationship, though.

Say you're walking along a steep cliff with your friend... and then he suddenly tells you to jump off the cliff. In fact, he double-dog dares you to. Are you going to do it? Probably not... but there are some people just can't refuse a dare. So whose fault is it if you happen to be one of those people? Well, if your friend knows you'll never turn down a dare, then he's an evil bastard and it's on him. If not, then your friend was probably saying it as a lark, and it's on you and whatever flaw of your nature compels you to never turn down a dare.

Bottom line is that your friend is either perfectly evil or imperfectly good.... and you're either right in the head or not. That means there are four possible outcomes:

1. Perfectly Evil Friend, You're right in the head - Your friend wouldn't tell you to jump off the cliff, because he knows you'll refuse. Though he's tempted to push you off instead, it's more fun to make you do it.
2. Perfectly Evil Friend, You're not right in the head - Your friend dares you, you accept the dare and jump.
3. Imperfectly Good Friend, You're right in the head - Your friend dares you as a lark, but you refuse like a normal person.
4. Imperfectly Good Friend, You're not right in the had - Your friend dares you as a lark, but you try to jump anyway. He stops you from doing so.

So God is imperfect, but that means you have enough freedom to be right in the head or not.... and to choose perfectly evil friends if you want.
 
Mulefoot said:
Jesus' words "you have heard it said" were some of the most revolutionary words that he uttered. It's clear that what was, is no longer.

If a Christian hears voices to violate one of Jesus' principles, he should not take that action.
Click to expand...

Yet no two Christians here seem able to agree on and tell us definitively what Jesus’ principles are. People should be more concerned with believing that god would actually tell them anything directly.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
It recently came to my attention in another thread that some folks don't think the 9/11 attack was done by people who were actually religious. That it was wrong in some way that was obvious to them. That they would have done something other than fly a plane into a building in that situation. So as not to further derail that thread, I started this new one dedicated to the topic.

If you believed that God wanted you to fly a plane into a skyscraper full of people, what would you do?

Would you decide that your God had crossed the line and join the ranks of Lucifer and his third of the angelic host in rebellion (or equivalent opposition to your deity of choice for non-Abrahamic religions)? Would you abandon religion altogether and become and atheist?

Or would you trust that God had a good purpose for you to fly that plane into a skyscraper full of people, even if you couldn't see it, and push the throttle all the way forward?
Click to expand...
3 John 1:11
“Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.”
 
Overitall said:
3 John 1:11
“Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.”
Click to expand...

And how do you determine what is good and what is evil?

If you think that still, small voice is telling you to fly a plane into a building, does that mean that flying a plane into building is good? If your commanding officer in an ancient Israeli army is telling you that God wants you stab a little toddler to death, does that mean that stabbing a toddler is good?
 
Overitall said:
3 John 1:11
“Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.”
Click to expand...

The devil of good and evil is in the details. The words mean nothing without knowing what makes them so.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
And how do you determine what is good and what is evil?

If you think that still, small voice is telling you to fly a plane into a building, does that mean that flying a plane into building is good? If your commanding officer in an ancient Israeli army is telling you that God wants you stab a little toddler to death, does that mean that stabbing a toddler is good?
Click to expand...
I have no need to determine it in the scenario you've presented. You've already defined it and based on your understanding of it my response was appropriate.
 
Overitall said:
I have no need to determine it in the scenario you've presented. You've already defined it and based on your understanding of it my response was appropriate.
Click to expand...

Where do you believe I defined it? That sounds like it would be counterproductive to my purpose.

The entire purpose of the scenario I presented was find out how y'all would go about determining good and evil in that scenario. Do you fly the plane into the skyscraper, trusting that God knows what He is doing and that He must have some good purpose in asking you to do so? Or do you evaluate whether flying a plane into a skyscraper full of people is good or evil based on some other criteria?
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
Where do you believe I defined it? That sounds like it would be counterproductive to my purpose.

The entire purpose of the scenario I presented was find out how y'all would go about determining good and evil in that scenario. Do you fly the plane into the skyscraper, trusting that God knows what He is doing and that He must have some good purpose in asking you to do so? Or do you evaluate whether flying a plane into a skyscraper full of people is good or evil based on some other criteria?
Click to expand...
You implied it in your scenario that it was evil. Your question therefore asks us if we would commit an evil act if God told us to. My answer to that question was that God would not ask us to do anything evil.
 
Overitall said:
You implied it in your scenario that it was evil. Your question therefore asks us if we would commit an evil act if God told us to. My answer to that question was that God would not ask us to do anything evil.
Click to expand...

In what way did I imply that it was evil in my scenario?
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
You did not, and I will, respectively. You as well.
Click to expand...

"What would you do if you believed God wanted you to fly a plane into a skyscraper full of people?"​

Is this not your question? My answer was I would not believe the voice in my head being that of God because of the scripture I quoted. God would not want me to do evil. Are you saying the act in your scenario was a good one? I'd like to know why you would think that. But we both know you don't believe that. Thus your scenario is constructed in such a way to imply it's an evil act.
 
Overitall said:

"What would you do if you believed God wanted you to fly a plane into a skyscraper full of people?"​

Is this not your question? My answer was I would not believe the voice in my head being that of God because of the scripture I quoted. God would not want me to do evil. Are you saying the act in your scenario was a good one? I'd like to know why you would think that. But we both know you don't believe that. Thus your scenario is constructed in such a way to imply it's an evil act.
Click to expand...

The question was not whether you would believe the voice in your head was that of God or not.

It actually is assumed in the scenario that you believe it is the voice of God. What is not assumed in the scenario is whether you think flying a plane into a skyscraper full of people is evil or not. That would be for you to answer.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
The question was not whether you would believe the voice in your head was that of God or not.

It actually is assumed in the scenario that you believe it is the voice of God. What is not assumed in the scenario is whether you think flying a plane into a skyscraper full of people is evil or not. That would be for you to answer.
Click to expand...
Your question assumes God doesn't expect us to think for ourselves. It's why your question really isn't an honest one. You don't ask why God would want us to do something that is clearly evil despite His written Word telling us explicitly not to. My cited verse states clearly that those that do evil have not seen God. It's not likely they would hear Him talking to them either. But His enemy, the Devil, sure does a lot in tempting God's children to do evil things. It is written that the devil is a murderer. So if I'm hearing voices telling me to murder someone I'm pretty sure it's not the voice of God. Your question is a silly one for followers of Jesus Christ.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
It recently came to my attention in another thread that some folks don't think the 9/11 attack was done by people who were actually religious. That it was wrong in some way that was obvious to them. That they would have done something other than fly a plane into a building in that situation. So as not to further derail that thread, I started this new one dedicated to the topic.

If you believed that God wanted you to fly a plane into a skyscraper full of people, what would you do?

Would you decide that your God had crossed the line and join the ranks of Lucifer and his third of the angelic host in rebellion (or equivalent opposition to your deity of choice for non-Abrahamic religions)? Would you abandon religion altogether and become and atheist?

Or would you trust that God had a good purpose for you to fly that plane into a skyscraper full of people, even if you couldn't see it, and push the throttle all the way forward?
Click to expand...
Such a ridiculous proposal.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
How did you determine that it is clearly evil? What if the skyscraper is full of Amalekite children?
Click to expand...
I don't see the point in going any further with you on this. I made my answer and point clear enough. Dealing with more silly questions is a waste of my time. Enjoy yourself.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
And if that "still, small voice" confirms that you should go ahead and fly the plane into the building?
Click to expand...

Still, small voices are not "in person". I would at the very least require a divine messenger in the form of Chuck Norris in a white robe and no underwear.

Are you trying to set up a scenario where we are merely gullible, or one in which we are delusional to the point of having no free will?
In the former case, confirmation is required. In the latter, it doesn't matter, because we are powerless to resist.

The third case is God actually telling us to do it. Inferring an omnipotent entity asking a mortal to do something for them, presumably because they coudn't do it themselves, which makes no sense. So nah...
But I have heard of someone like that. Someone who needs mere mortals to do his dirty work for him. Someone who pretends to be omnipotent, but has no power and is merely allowed to whisper. You know, because he kept complaining that it was unfair if we only had the word of God and could never be tempted (like Job). So still wouldn't do it, even if he offered me a great payment. Because you know, I'm not perfect and quite capable of being tempted, but it's also kind of a trope that deals with this individual tend to turn out really, really bad for the mortal involved...

So can't think of a single reason to do it.
Except Chuck Norris.
 
HK.227 said:
The third case is God actually telling us to do it. Inferring an omnipotent entity asking a mortal to do something for them, presumably because they coudn't do it themselves, which makes no sense. So nah...
Click to expand...

Yeah. Doesn't make much sense to me either.

So let's suppose Chuck Norris arrives in a white robe left open just enough to leave nothing to the imagination. He confirms in his manly Texas Ranger voice that you should fly the plane into the building. Chuck Norris is in this case a divine messenger from the same God who asked mortals to kill all the Amalekites, specifically including "children and infants," presumably, as you say, because He couldn't do it Himself. He also asked mortals to kill the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, presumably, as you say, because He couldn't do it Himself.

So in consideration of your astute logic in that regard, once Chuck Norris arrived to confirm the command, would you trust that this being who consistently needs to get mortals to kill other mortals for Him is the omnipotent, benevolent deity that He is purported to be in the book that He had to get mortals to write for him?
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
Yeah. Doesn't make much sense to me either.

So let's suppose Chuck Norris arrives in a white robe left open just enough to leave nothing to the imagination. He confirms in his manly Texas Ranger voice that you should fly the plane into the building. Chuck Norris is in this case a divine messenger from the same God who asked mortals to kill all the Amalekites, specifically including "children and infants," presumably, as you say, because He couldn't do it Himself. He also asked mortals to kill the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, presumably, as you say, because He couldn't do it Himself.

So in consideration of your astute logic in that regard, once Chuck Norris arrived to confirm the command, would you trust that this being who consistently needs to get mortals to kill other mortals for Him is the omnipotent, benevolent deity that He is purported to be in the book that He had to get mortals to write for him?
Click to expand...

Chuck Norris? Hell yeah. That building is toast!
Also, that slaying the Amalekites was a tragic misunderstanding. Chuck showed them his round house kick proficiency, and everyone watching immediately had heart attacks.

Of course, Chuck is nothing compared to Chicago Ted,
He once showed up and told me that due to an unfortunate chain of cause and effect all of mankind was doomed. For some reason the only way to avert this was for him to empty my liquer cabinet and have sex with my wife, but I trust Chicago Ted. Great guy!
 
Last edited:
AConcernedCitizen said:
It recently came to my attention in another thread that some folks don't think the 9/11 attack was done by people who were actually religious. That it was wrong in some way that was obvious to them. That they would have done something other than fly a plane into a building in that situation. So as not to further derail that thread, I started this new one dedicated to the topic.

If you believed that God wanted you to fly a plane into a skyscraper full of people, what would you do?

Would you decide that your God had crossed the line and join the ranks of Lucifer and his third of the angelic host in rebellion (or equivalent opposition to your deity of choice for non-Abrahamic religions)? Would you abandon religion altogether and become and atheist?

Or would you trust that God had a good purpose for you to fly that plane into a skyscraper full of people, even if you couldn't see it, and push the throttle all the way forward?
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard the adage a "hypnotist can't cause people to do anything beyond their moral compass"?

Same thing. When people are self-aware and actualized there is no outside force that can permeate it.
 
Overitall said:
I don't see the point in going any further with you on this. I made my answer and point clear enough. Dealing with more silly questions is a waste of my time. Enjoy yourself.
Click to expand...
Have you ever made a clear point? EVER??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom