What would equality look like?

[Rexedgar]

IMO, equality would have to come with very strict responsibilities, which would infringe on Constitutional rights as they are written.

 

[ttwtt78640]

In America what would equality look like? I hear complaints all the time about equality but what does that really mean. I've seen complaints that there are not enough black NFL head coaches, not enough black Congressmen, not enough Women CEO's or women Congressmen. Not enough people of color on a particular Presidents cabinet. Not enough minorities in medical schools, or as generals in the military. Just what does equality look like.

The idea that equality of outcome (imposing racial, ethnic or gender quotas) could be legislated has not been established as being desirable (or constitutional). Few (if any) consider it likely that racism (racial preference or discrimination) is responsible for the over-representation of black NBA players or the under-representation of Asian or white NBA Players.

 

[Rentoc]

Oddly enough, look to the military for an example.

Actually they keep statistics too, and manipulate certain promotions to be "diverse".

 

[jotathought]

But we currently have neither. Equal opportunity is the goal.

Inequality of outcome can be a symptom of inequality of opportunity. If you evaluate the cause of inequality of outcome, and it leads to the discovery of inequality of opportunity, that is a problem.

The goal of the fight for racial equality and gender equality is not to artificially impose an equality of outcome, but rather to expose inequalities of opportunity and correct them.

We have achieved a pretty decent level of equality when it comes to hair color. It isn't a perfect equality of outcome, but there isn't a huge body of scientific research that has determined a mechanism of unequal opportunity leading to this inequality of outcome in regards to hair color, so nobody cares. If you want to see what equality looks like, look to hair color, and then apply that to skin color and gender.

To answer the titular question, equality would look like initial conditions of inequal opportunity no longer being an accurate predictor for any a given metric of outcome.

What equal opportunity isn't available?

 

[jotathought]

I would argue that equal outcomes are how you measure how equal the opportunities actually are

How can you have equal outcomes when everyone is unique? For example, some people naturally do very well with math and some people don't. How would you have an equal outcome? Another example, some people are very good playing basketball, and some aren't. How about that? Should I have an equal outcome of playing basketball against Michael Jordan?

 

[craig]

How can you have equal outcomes when everyone is unique? For example, some people naturally do very well with math and some people don't. How would you have an equal outcome? Another example, some people are very good playing basketball, and some aren't. How about that? Should I have an equal outcome of playing basketball against Michael Jordan?

You don't measure individuals you measure populations using statistics. Income level. Education level. Home ownership. Distribution of populations in Ivy league schools. And so on.

 

[ChezC3]

What would equality look like? A lot of unicorns, faeries, leprechauns, and other magical creatures frolicking about and shitting rainbows.

Equality is a pipe dream.

 

[CaughtInThe]

it's not equality that a massive majority of young folks want. it's simply a level playing field.


but i've seen, for almost 60 years, people screaming that equality doesn't work (while totally ignoring the level playing field part). and, due to ignoring the level playing field part, you now get to live with younger politicians that are the polar opposite of what conservatives want.

they brought this on themselves.

 

[craig]

What would equality look like? A lot of unicorns, faeries, leprechauns, and other magical creatures frolicking about and shitting rainbows.

Equality is a pipe dream.

If you plant flowers in two fields. Water and fertilize only one field. That flowers in that field will have more opportunity to grow and will do better. If you water and fertilize the two fields the same both fields will have the same outcome.

 

[ChezC3]

If you plant flowers in two fields. Water and fertilize only one field. That flowers in that field will have more opportunity to grow and will do better. If you water and fertilize the two fields the same both fields will have the same outcome.

If only that were so.

 

[Good4Nothin]

It can't happen at once. We have made great strides since I have been alive (66 years) but there is a long way to go and it will take more generations.
Things we can do:
Give everyone the best most equal start we can. Guaranteed income to families with children. Starting at a very early age (infant) access for everyone to the best, most equal schools and day care possible regardless of where you live or your economic class. Stop generational transfer of wealth. Discourage legacy preferences and nepotism as much as possible. We will need the money to implement those things I have already described. This is absolutely required to create an equal opportunity society that has a more uniform distribution of wealth and power.

WHAT???? Pay people for having children, using tax money from those who don't have children!!!! And we can also pay for their childcare. I can't imagine you getting elected president.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Equality would be a tax of about $14,000 being billed and paid by each and every citizen regardless of age.

Oh that's brilliant. What if they make less than $14,000?

 

[mrjurrs]

In America what would equality look like? I hear complaints all the time about equality but what does that really mean. I've seen complaints that there are not enough black NFL head coaches, not enough black Congressmen, not enough Women CEO's or women Congressmen. Not enough people of color on a particular Presidents cabinet. Not enough minorities in medical schools, or as generals in the military. Just what does equality look like.

In America, equality means equality before the law and equal opportunity. When these become reality, America will look a lot more like the population of America.

 

[craig]

In America, equality means equality before the law and equal opportunity. When these become reality, America will look a lot more like the population of America.

And equal opportunity can only be measured by equal outcomes.

 

[craig]

WHAT???? Pay people for having children, using tax money from those who don't have children!!!! And we can also pay for their childcare. I can't imagine you getting elected president.

It is all about the children. As I got older I realized that the children are the future of our country We probably can't change ourselves but we can help the children to succeed. I think of all of the soldiers that gave their time and their lives to protect our country. The least we can expect those who have gained the most from our country is that they contribute to its future.

 

[Evilroddy]

Equality of outcomes will eventually be the product of opportunity. So don't concern yourself with outcomes at first and focus on opportunities. What are the great levellers of opportunity? They are quality healthcare, quality and thorough education, social connections, ambition plus the willingness to take risks and access to start-up capital.

To equalise health you will need a healthcare system which delivers high quality healthcare to all citizens living in America, regardless of their wealth, income or employment status.

You will need educational systems which produce the best educated students that each student can be. This education should not be just vocational oriented training. It should be real education designed to make graduating students fully literate in all means of communication, fully functional in all needed arithmetic and mathematical operations essential for functionality in the adult world, fully able critical thinkers who fearlessly question what they are told or sold, good analysers and creative problem solvers. It should stress knowledge of citizenship and government, knowledge of law and constitution, knowledge of rights and responsibilities, knowledge of unvarnished history, knowledge of economics, functionality in science and maths with later opportunities to excel in these fields if they have an aptitude for such disciplines, education in the skills of self reliance and above all opportunities to use their education in the real world through at-work mentoring programmes from middle school onwards. There is too much to detail here but these are the broad strokes.

Social connections should be fostered of forged between new citizens by having to join in and participate in a certain number of social groups throughout a students life as part of their education. These social activities should aim to mix different peoples from different social groups, ethinicities and economic levels together so as to develop both understanding and appreciation of others and to establish connections between people from highly disparate walks of life. The mentoring programmes in the educational system will also mix people and will foster connectivity.

Character, ambition, a competative (but not predatory) spirit, a willingness to take sensible risks after assessing the risk-reward potential for any risky endeavour and reducing the stigma of failure and the legacy costs of minor failures should be developed as part of the educational programme and the wider societal ethos. This should start with failing students at nearly the earliest levels in their education when they are not ready to progress in their studies to the next level and removing the stigma of such temporary failure as just part of learning and growing up.

Continued next post.

 

[Evilroddy]

Finally access to capital for higher education, entrepreneurship, homeownership and funding child education should be provided. Development bonds should be established for each newborn child and those bonds should grow along with the child. Both parents/family and the state should enrich the bonds, parents/family for growth up to limits and the state to eliminate bond disparity by redistributing capital gains tax revenues to shore up lagging bonds and to cap richer bonds. Entrepreneurship bonds should likewise be established at birth and also funded by private contribution and the state. Money spent on buying a house should be partially shielded from taxation if the house is below the mean value of homes in the region and mortgage payments should be deductible from income up to a certain level. Higher education income funds should be set up at birth for each child born and if not used for higher education then should be transferable to entrepreneurship bonds or to the children of the person choosing to forego a higher education.

With all this upward pushing investment where is the money going to come from to pay for it? There will have to be a downwards pushing countervailing system to tamp down or make difficult extrodinary wealth. Truely effective and progressively burdensome income taxation should be reintroduced so that it becomes more difficult to become extraordinarily rich (not impossible but just much harder the more successful you are). Capital gains taxation should be used to heavily tax unearned income to deter people living off speculation and inheritance rather than becoming productive contributors to society. Machine and robotic labour taxes must be implemented to stop firms from externalising labour costs and to protect jobs for future workers. Capital mobility must be limited so that capital cannot be moved from regions or states where it is accumulated to regions or states where it can be shielded from taxation in order to tax it and to stop the offshoring of pre-tax capital and the offshoring of jobs by the ultra greedy. Social value should be rewarded as well as productive and speculative prowess by the introduction of social dividends paid out to volunteers and part-time workers who pick up the slack of where our traditional productive or speculative economies have short comings. This social economy should be funded by pre-profit corporate taxes on sales rather than profits. Again, there is not enough time or posting space to fully develop the downward pushing programme but this should give readers a general idea.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Lursa]

It would totally make me puke. And, it could never be done. There is no way to make life just for every single person in the country.

Equality would make you puke?



Equality isnt something you should have to force on people, it comes from inside you, based on good upbringing. Like civility, respecting others, compassion, honesty.

 

[mrjurrs]

And equal opportunity can only be measured by equal outcomes.

That's incorrect. Give 10 people equal opportunity and it is possible you will see 10 different outcomes. America can't guarantee the outcome, but it could guarantee an equal start.

 

[craig]

That's incorrect. Give 10 people equal opportunity and it is possible you will see 10 different outcomes. America can't guarantee the outcome, but it could guarantee an equal start.

You sample populations of protected groups and compare outcomes. It is not about the individual. No guarantee involved. If each protected group has the same opportunity they should have statistically the same outcomes.

 

[Individual]

Oh that's brilliant. What if they make less than $14,000?

The question simply asked what equality would look like.

 

[Moderate Right]

Equality would make you puke?



Equality isnt something you should have to force on people, it comes from inside you, based on good upbringing. Like civility, respecting others, compassion, honesty.

You just don't understand. There will never be equality. Never. Life isn't fair. It will never be fair. There will always be someone that doesn't get treated fairly. If blacks make up 13% of the population and 15% are incarcerated, the left will be screaming inequality. If they get 15% of cases of a virus the left will be screaming inequality. Same goes for Hispanics, Asians, fat people, Jewish people, people with disabilities, young people, old people, married people, single people, dog owners, cat owners, whoever. Your sister or brother will get things you deserve. At your work, someone will be promoted that has worked there for one year while you have worked there for 20 and it won't have a damn thing to do with inequality. To make everything equal for everyone all the time is not even possible. It's puke material.

 

[vegas giants]

You just don't understand. There will never be equality. Never. Life isn't fair. It will never be fair. There will always be someone that doesn't get treated fairly. If blacks make up 13% of the population and 15% are incarcerated, the left will be screaming inequality. If they get 15% of cases of a virus the left will be screaming inequality. Same goes for Hispanics, Asians, fat people, Jewish people, people with disabilities, young people, old people, married people, single people, dog owners, cat owners, whoever. Your sister or brother will get things you deserve. At your work, someone will be promoted that has worked there for one year while you have worked there for 20 and it won't have a damn thing to do with inequality. To make everything equal for everyone all the time is not even possible. It's puke material.

So let's not try. Let's make laws screwing over every minority....because we can

 

[Bullseye]

IMHO "equality" would look like people enjoying the freedoms and opportunities they work for and earn. Nonsensical statistics like how many of each demographic occupy would be thrown in the trash can of history. If nine old white men are the best qualified for SCOTUS at a particular time - so be it. Equality true if nine WOC held the seats. A person would qualify for college based on his/her performance not his/her gender/color, etc.

Affirmative action would be schools starting for kindergarten establishing and enforcing academic and behavior.

 

[Lursa]

You just don't understand. There will never be equality. Never. Life isn't fair. It will never be fair. There will always be someone that doesn't get treated fairly. If blacks make up 13% of the population and 15% are incarcerated, the left will be screaming inequality. If they get 15% of cases of a virus the left will be screaming inequality. Same goes for Hispanics, Asians, fat people, Jewish people, people with disabilities, young people, old people, married people, single people, dog owners, cat owners, whoever. Your sister or brother will get things you deserve. At your work, someone will be promoted that has worked there for one year while you have worked there for 20 and it won't have a damn thing to do with inequality. To make everything equal for everyone all the time is not even possible. It's puke material.

Fairness and equal status are not the same.

If all have equal status, then each individual starts with an equal chance to fulfill their destiny. Fairness is uneven circumstances, laws, nature, accidents, etc. Things like, is it fair that women are the ones that get pregnant? Nope...but that doesnt mean we are not equal to men. Are we the same as men? No but that doesnt mean we arent equal.

Life is not fair. But in America, all adults should have equal status...however not all are treated that way.