What would be so bad about a society with a Caste system?

[Tigger]

Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

 

[Daktoria]

Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

Just because you're satisfied in accepting your place doesn't mean everyone is.

A caste system condemns incompatible personalities. Small opportunity is also a tease and an excuse.

Rights are what's necessary for people to be important. Therefore, wrongs are what's impossible for people to be important.

 

[MaggieD]

Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

That's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Tigger]

Just because you're satisfied in accepting your place doesn't mean everyone is.

True; and you see what has happened to our society when people refuse to acknowledge and accept their place. You get the cesspool that the United States, Europe, and the rest of the "civilized" world have become.

A caste system condemns incompatible personalities. Small opportunity is also a tease and an excuse.

As if you think our current soceity doesn't condemn incompatible personalities? PLEASE. Walk a mile in my shoes, metaphorically before you answer that question. A small opportunity to advance is better than no opportunity, correct?

Rights are what's necessary for people to be important. Therefore, wrongs are what's impossible for people to be important.

There is where you make your mistake. It is not the people who are important in society. It is the society itself that is important.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

Care to be a little more specific about what would be so terrible in that sort of system?

 

[zstep18]

True; and you see what has happened to our society when people refuse to acknowledge and accept their place. You get the cesspool that the United States, Europe, and the rest of the "civilized" world have become.

Can you tell me what my place in the world is? I like it here. I have rights and liberties. Things which you seem to take for granted.

 

[Gardener]

Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

Sure. Sounds good to me.

Now, bring me my slippers, peon!

 

[lizzie]

Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

After working with a good number of people who come directly from a country which does formally have a caste system, no thanks. I don't really dig being treated as an inferior, based on my line of work.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Can you tell me what my place in the world is? I like it here. I have rights and liberties. Things which you seem to take for granted.

No you don't. You can think you do, but you don't. There is no objective basis for "rights."

 

[MaggieD]

You get the cesspool that the United States, Europe, and the rest of the "civilized" world have become.

Or, we could get the cesspool that is India.

Care to be a little more specific about what would be so terrible in that sort of system?

That someone's status in life would be determined by heredity is wrong. That someone's status would determine his opportunities in life would be wrong.

Fortunately, it's not something we're going to have to worry about any time soon.

 

[Tigger]

Can you tell me what my place in the world is? I like it here. I have rights and liberties. Things which you seem to take for granted.

No. They're things I just generally disagree with in total. The problem with most Rights and Liberties is that they do not come with the necessary Duties and Responsibilities to keep them within reasonable limits.

As for your place.... who knows. What did your parents do? What is your gender? That should tell you a lot about what your place would be.

Sure. Sounds good to me. Now, bring me my slippers, peon!

Yep, everyone assumes that they would be part of the ruling class. Not me, thank you very much. I'd much prefer to be a tradesman or a professional soldier.

After working with a good number of people who come directly from a country which does formally have a caste system, no thanks. I don't really dig being treated as an inferior, based on my line of work.

Without getting too personal, may I inquire as to which country you're talking about?

 

[Tigger]

Or, we could get the cesspool that is India.

India, like much of the middle and near east is a country stuck between two worlds, with a foot in each. Eventually they, like many other countries, are going to have to make a decision as to which world their nation belongs in.

That someone's status in life would be determined by heredity is wrong. That someone's status would determine his opportunities in life would be wrong.

Why is it so wrong? Does it not make for a much more orderly, structured, and well-operating society?

Fortunately, it's not something we're going to have to worry about any time soon.

Probably not, but at least as an intellectual exercise it's something that I think has merit in discussing.

 

[zstep18]

No. They're things I just generally disagree with in total. The problem with most Rights and Liberties is that they do not come with the necessary Duties and Responsibilities to keep them within reasonable limits.

What you don't understand is that just by voicing your opinions on the matter, you are enjoying the same rights and liberties which you seem to hate. If you were to go to other places in the world, you would be doing none of this.

 

[Gardener]

Yep, everyone assumes that they would be part of the ruling class.

I wasn't making much of an assumption about me, really.

It was about you.

 

[Fruityfact]

Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

So much for the constitution which you "so adhere to"

 

[MaggieD]

Why is it so wrong? Does it not make for a much more orderly, structured, and well-operating society?

Tigger, I would really like to engage you on a topic, because I think you are an intelligent guy whose black-and-white take on life is sometimes refreshing. But this one? I just can't get into it. Next time.

 

[Daktoria]

True; and you see what has happened to our society when people refuse to acknowledge and accept their place. You get the cesspool that the United States, Europe, and the rest of the "civilized" world have become.

Can you explain this? If anything, Europe believes that personal success is less in our own control than Americans do.

The American-Western European Values Gap | Pew Global Attitudes Project

As if you think our current soceity doesn't condemn incompatible personalities? PLEASE. Walk a mile in my shoes, metaphorically before you answer that question. A small opportunity to advance is better than no opportunity, correct?

Of course, but that's because our society already contains your belief. It treats people who come from different backgrounds as absurd.

For example, Anglo-Saxon Protestant middle- and upper-middle class liberals look down upon Catholic working- and lower-middle class conservatives.

There is where you make your mistake. It is not the people who are important in society. It is the society itself that is important.

By "society", are you talking about "concrete collective", or "abstract values"?

 

[Tigger]

What you don't understand is that just by voicing your opinions on the matter, you are enjoying the same rights and liberties which you seem to hate. If you were to go to other places in the world, you would be doing none of this.

I understand that quite well; and if there was a decent society here in the United States there would be no reason for me to ever speak up here either.

So much for the constitution which you "so adhere to"

The Constitution that I prefer died a long time ago, Fruity. The difference is that to put my prefered society into place, I would at least have the decency to either abolish and/or re-write the Constitution rather than just ignoring it as our current society does.

 

[24107]

=Tigger;1060771214]Many of you know my feelings on people knowing their place in society and accepting it. So I ask you this....

What would be so horrible about returning to a Caste system in society?..... ..... a system where people know and accept their place and role in society. Especially if there were to be room left for at least a small opportunity for either upward or downward progression through society?

I think because people don't like to be treated like animals.

 

[zstep18]

I understand that quite well; and if there was a decent society here in the United States there would be no reason for me to ever speak up here either.

Now if we lived in this decent society, would you not have a reason to speak up or would you not be allowed to speak up?

 

[rathi]

My caste system involves the untouchable class, whose sole member includes tigger and which has no rights, and a second class which includes everyone else. As a proponent of the caste system, Tigger should have no problem accepting his role in society.

 

[Tigger]

Can you explain this? If anything, Europe believes that personal success is less in our own control than Americans do.

In neither case or location is there a concrete set of values, morals, and societal standards which are what is truly necessary for a society to truly flourish.

Of course, but that's because our society already contains your belief. It treats people who come from different backgrounds as absurd.

Sub-cultures are always going to quarrel amongst themselves. What I was more interested in was the fact that our society at large does not take kindly to anyone or anything that rocks the boat. That's why extreme religious groups are so frowned upon.... they actually try to walk their talk and live their beliefs and that's not really compatible with the general Western Sociaty of the 21st century.

By "society", are you talking about "concrete collective", or "abstract values"?

Both.

 

[Tigger]

Now if we lived in this decent society, would you not have a reason to speak up or would you not be allowed to speak up?

There would be no reason to speak up, and depending on where you fell in the caste system there might not be an ability to speak up either.

 

[zstep18]

There would be no reason to speak up, and depending on where you fell in the caste system there might not be an ability to speak up either.

Would you be alright with being at the bottom of this caste system while everyone else is on top of the caste system?

 

[Tigger]

Would you be alright with being at the bottom of this caste system while everyone else is on top of the caste system?

So long as it's a proper society, that would be find by me.

 

[Daktoria]

In neither case or location is there a concrete set of values, morals, and societal standards which are what is truly necessary for a society to truly flourish.

You need to explain what is necessary for society to flourish. I'm still not sure where you're coming from.

Sub-cultures are always going to quarrel amongst themselves. What I was more interested in was the fact that our society at large does not take kindly to anyone or anything that rocks the boat. That's why extreme religious groups are so frowned upon.... they actually try to walk their talk and live their beliefs and that's not really compatible with the general Western Sociaty of the 21st century.

Well yea, that's Protestantism for you. Protestants demand that people perform good works to show divine grace. If you blaze your own trail instead of appealing to community standards, you're shunned:

Protestant work ethic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even progressivism itself is based on this:

Social Gospel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both.

Alright, I'll let you go on this one. Recognizing values is good enough.