What would abortion laws be like if it were solely up to abortion rights advocates?[W

[Scrabaholic]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

No need for you to “buy” what I’m not selling. I have proposed nothing. And I don’t regard pregnancy as a “punishment.” I feel sorry for those who do and for those who think that the solution to an unintended pregnancy is the killing of one’s own offspring.

I feel sorry for those who feel a need to treat women as broodmares and force them to gestate against their will.

I’ll tell you what I’m tired of, ChoiceOne (well, besides Minnie posting for the upteenth time about her gestational travails).

Wow, one would think that an anti choicer would be more compassionate toward a woman who has lost two of those 'babies' that you think are so precious that women should be forced to birth them.

I’m tired of women who haven’t themselves given birth lecturing women who have about the horrors of pregnancy.

I'm tired of the minimizing of the effects of pregnancy from women who have never gone thru it or were fortunate enough to breeze thru it and especially from those who experienced a difficult pregnancy and thinks women should be forced to go through it against their will.

 

[nota bene]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

So a baby has value only if the mother is "happy" to have him or her? Tell that to the history of humankind.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

So a baby has value only if the mother is "happy" to have him or her? Tell that to the history of humankind.

What ancient Chargé d'Affaires delegated women to be responsible for eternally proliferating humankind? There's been untold number of species on this planet to become extinct.

"Tell that to the history of humankind", sounds a wee bit like that came from Catholic ideology .

 

[Lursa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

So a baby has value only if the mother is "happy" to have him or her? Tell that to the history of humankind.

No....a fetus only has value to the mother...or parents.

A baby is another story, as you recognized.

 

[Lursa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

What ancient Chargé d'Affaires delegated women to be responsible for eternally proliferating humankind? There's been untold number of species on this planet to become extinct.

"Tell that to the history of humankind", sounds a wee bit like that came from Catholic ideology .

I know. It would be a sad state of affairs...and humans would most likely be extinct...if women needed to be forced to reproduce. Apparently however, they do not.

Esp. since in the 40 yrs since it was made legal here in the US, most women still choose to give birth.

 

[Del Zeppnile]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

LOLOLOL

You did claim earlier, that you were pro-life? (Maybe I'm mistaken)

LOLOLOLOL

I don't get it, are you now saying that you want to kill babies that are born too?

Pretty sick.

 

[Sababa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Glad you got that out of your system yet it doesn't answer my question at all. You don't like us, I get that. I've known that for a long time now, so for that reason that keeps you from stepping up and offering support? As long as you're going to tell us what we truly believe, I'll do the same. Don't tell me you don't "like" abortion when so many on your side seem to believe that a developing baby in the womb is worthless tissue and something to be despised like cancer or a parasite or any of the other euphemisms you all use. It seems, to me many people who are a pro abortion have to justify it by describing the fetus in the worst most malevolent way. Don't tell me you don't "like" abortion if you'd support the choice to kill a baby during labor and delivery just so long as it's still in the womb. Shoot, I read a comment just tonight that it's not even a baby post birth as long as the umbilical cord is not yet cut so please, don't try to sell me your brand of "compassion".

so you choose to miss the point and paint all pro-choice people by the fringe. So you weren't seeking an honest answer just trolling. Okay. My position is an old one but a good one. Abortions must be rare, safe and legal.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Wow, one would think that an anti choicer would be more compassionate toward a woman who has lost two of those 'babies'

The point of that story, repeated over and over, is that she doesn't care about the ones she lost, that they didn't count, that they weren't human. You think this bigoted sentiment deserves compassion?

No, it does not, no more than your own continued assertion, over and over, that you think your mother is an *insert negative adjective* *insert expletive noun* and that she should have killed you. The first time you said it, perhaps, it warranted sympathy, even concern for your immediate wellbeing... but as we continue down that peculiar rabbit hole over the many years now, one can perceive how far this process has gone, that you essentially think anyone with bad parents would be better off dead. That sentiment doesn't warrant compassion, it warrants exactly the rhetorical scrutiny and the moral criticism it receives.
.

I'm tired of the minimizing of the effects of pregnancy

You can't minimize the minimal.

 

[X Factor]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

so you choose to miss the point and paint all pro-choice people by the fringe. So you weren't seeking an honest answer just trolling. Okay. My position is an old one but a good one. Abortions must be rare, safe and legal.

I guess you didn't read the retarded hack post I was replying too. Here is one thing I notice though, you all never have anything to say to your "fringe". There are people on your side that advocate post birth abortion, yet you never address it even though you supposedly disagree with it. I think what's not said can speak volumes.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Yes and blacks were still legally treated as 2nd class citizens past 1964....didnt make it right.

So much fail. Congratulations on being able to make that assertion yet still manage to completely miss the point.

 

[Sababa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

I guess you didn't read the retarded hack post I was replying too. Here is one thing I notice though, you all never have anything to say to your "fringe". There are people on your side that advocate post birth abortion, yet you never address it even though you supposedly disagree with it. I think what's not said can speak volumes.

sorry you are lying here and I did read it. You are trolling to post lies like this. Sorry you have such low self-esteem. I think you might want to get help.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

so you choose to miss the point and paint all pro-choice people by the fringe.

This is DebatePolitics.

If we're talking to the pro-abortion camp here, we are talking to the absolute raggedy fringe, often with bizarre religious zeal in their rejection of science, frequently just generally cheering on needless death.

You've got eugenics minded folks that are pro-infanticide. You've got the ones that call these kids "human garbage." You've got the people who think the earth is too crowded so others just need to die.

 

[X Factor]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

sorry you are lying here and I did read it. You are trolling to post lies like this. Sorry you have such low self-esteem. I think you might want to get help.

Hmmmm, you read it and you're still clueless as to why I responded the way I did? I'd suggest you also get help but you can't fix stupid.

 

[tecoyah]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

I guess you didn't read the retarded hack post I was replying too. Here is one thing I notice though, you all never have anything to say to your "fringe". There are people on your side that advocate post birth abortion, yet you never address it even though you supposedly disagree with it. I think what's not said can speak volumes.

Why would someone advocating a woman's reproductive rights bother to address the (imagined) very few people who support something they have never noted and completely disagree with if it actually exists. If by chance there are people who advocate killing a born baby, I have never seen them and if they do exist could not possibly call them Pro-Choice.

More than likely, you have simply created these people to guide the conversation away from it's purpose.

I would note however, that this "Fringe" you refer to is far more prominent in the Pro-Life movement, and is almost becoming the norm....At least we are not advocating mechanical rape with a wand.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

At least we are not advocating mechanical rape with a wand.

Yeah, no. Pretty sure one doesn't elect a rape.

 

[Ocean007]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

No need for you to “buy” what I’m not selling. I have proposed nothing. And I don’t regard pregnancy as a “punishment.” I feel sorry for those who do and for those who think that the solution to an unintended pregnancy is the killing of one’s own offspring.

I’ll tell you what I’m tired of, ChoiceOne (well, besides Minnie posting for the upteenth time about her gestational travails). I’m tired of women who haven’t themselves given birth lecturing women who have about the horrors of pregnancy. They’re even worse than the idiots who terrify other women with their tales of 33 hours of hard labor and blah-blah-episiotomy-blah-blah-prolapsed uterus-blah-blah-blah.

Well, personally I DO regard pregnancy as a punishment, which is why I am very careful about using reliable contraception. I do it to AVOID unwanted pregnancy to the best of my ability, but of course I know that ALL contraceptives on the market can and DO fail occasionally.

Why would you feel "sorry" for someone who DOESN'T want pregnancy or children and thoroughly enjoys life without motherhood? And why does it bother you so much that some of us publicly state the very real HARDSHIPS of pregnancy and childbirth?

 

[Ocean007]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

What ancient Chargé d'Affaires delegated women to be responsible for eternally proliferating humankind? There's been untold number of species on this planet to become extinct.

"Tell that to the history of humankind", sounds a wee bit like that came from Catholic ideology.

That or from some other religion that forbids all forms of reliable contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Either way, it's none of ANY church's business whether a woman chooses to have children or not. Neither is it the business of any government.

 

[Lursa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

I don't get it, are you now saying that you want to kill babies that are born too?

Pretty sick.

Not at all, just pointing out the apparent hypocrisy....people that demand women have kids they cant afford....and then complain and resent it when their tax dollars are taken to pay for those kids.

Lil' bit of a mental disconnect there?

Their children are their responsibility, not mine.

 

[Lursa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

So much fail. Congratulations on being able to make that assertion yet still manage to completely miss the point.

Let's face it, your understanding of SCOTUS rulings on personhood has been tenuous at best...and a complete miss here.

 

[Monserrat]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Yeah, it means I was doing what I usually do, except for free. It's definitely different than when I used to volunteer at the hospital and push people in wheelchairs and bring them flowers. Neither of those were my profession.

What does this have to do with the topic? Monserrat was indulging in some fallacies of anecdotal experience trumping in statistics, but even my anecdotes that contradict her point don't really change any of the things we were talking about. If those who oppose abortion want to see fewer abortions, without stripping women of a fundamental right, they should support programs to make the choice to keep an unplanned pregnancy more practical. They should also work to change the sexual double standards that attack single women for having sex. Without an economic or social hardship, few would need to choose abortion.

I was just calling you out on your bull**** excuse blaming the conservatives for standing in the way when they aren't the only ones to be blamed for an inefficient government that doesn't always get things done. If you actually care about a cause then there are always other ways to help it along.

 

[Del Zeppnile]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Not at all, just pointing out the apparent hypocrisy....people that demand women have kids they cant afford....and then complain and resent it when their tax dollars are taken to pay for those kids.

Lil' bit of a mental disconnect there?

Actually not. The disconnect is that people like you believe that killing a baby should be just as easy as making a baby. I believe in personal responsibility in the making, birthing and raising of a child. Not really a very hard concept; PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[Gina]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Moderator's Warning:

Though the abortion issue is tangled up in strong personal beliefs, personal comments about other posters, need to stop. As does the baiting and flaming going on.

 

[Lursa]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Actually not. The disconnect is that people like you believe that killing a baby should be just as easy as making a baby. I believe in personal responsibility in the making, birthing and raising of a child. Not really a very hard concept; PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

You are waaayyy off base here. I think no such thing altho I think men and women should have all the sex they want as long as they DO take responsibilty.

And I gave good reasons why abortion is a responsible option. Having a kid that others have to pay for is irresponsible.

I have made many posts stating I think that being careless and getting pregnant is just about the stupidest things a man or woman can do. But I cant control other people and 'wishing it were so' doesnt make it any different. People will continue to have sex, irresponsibly and otherwise.

For myself, I never once in my entire life had sex without bc, including during a 13 year relationship. And I cant take The Pill. We were very committed to not having kids...and it was often inconvenient.....so I dont really cut other people slack when they just take their chances.

 

[digsbe]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

Hmm. As a conservative, I dont understand how you dont see that the woman DOES accept the consequences....and one of them is abortion. Do you think that's a party she goes to? There are risks & pain in that procedure. (are you cheering now? Or just saying 'she deserves it?')

And how do you not see abortion as a responsible act? It certainly is. You should love the idea that there's a good chance it will mean less of your tax dollars going to public assistance and a more likely chance that the woman will have the opportunity to contribute more to society with higher education and/or better jobs.

The act of killing another human being that came into being by the actions of someone else is not responsible. Doesn't matter how badly people want to desensitize the life of a fetus, it's still a human life that is individual from the mother and father. Would you say being a deadbeat dad is responsible? They had sex, they knew sex makes babies, yet they chose to abandon the child produced by their choice. It's really not much different when it comes to a woman doing the same thing only it's worse because she is taking the very life from the child and having it killed.

Abortion is also not the only answer, if a woman truly cannot raise a child there is always adoption and allowing the individual human life to live out its life and not have it cut short because someone else decides that they need to die. People can call it "responsible" and dance around the issue and smack the label of "intense personal freedom/choice" onto the act, but that's nothing more than a disgusting attempt to mask over the fact that abortion is the killing of another innocent human life at the choice of someone else. I abhor the idea that society thinks it's good to kill the unborn and that people think such a barbaric and disgusting practice is considered responsible or acceptable.

 

[Removable Mind]

Re: What would abortion laws look like if it were solely up to abortion rights advoca

The act of killing another human being that came into being by the actions of someone else is not responsible. Doesn't matter how badly people want to desensitize the life of a fetus, it's still a human life that is individual from the mother and father. Would you say being a deadbeat dad is responsible? They had sex, they knew sex makes babies, yet they chose to abandon the child produced by their choice. It's really not much different when it comes to a woman doing the same thing only it's worse because she is taking the very life from the child and having it killed.

Abortion is also not the only answer, if a woman truly cannot raise a child there is always adoption and allowing the individual human life to live out its life and not have it cut short because someone else decides that they need to die. People can call it "responsible" and dance around the issue and smack the label of "intense personal freedom/choice" onto the act, but that's nothing more than a disgusting attempt to mask over the fact that abortion is the killing of another innocent human life at the choice of someone else. I abhor the idea that society thinks it's good to kill the unborn and that people think such a barbaric and disgusting practice is considered responsible or acceptable.

Why is the unborn exempt from death? The born aren't.