What to do about the mass shootings in the US

[ocean515]

Forget Walmart. They haven’t been anywhere.

You asked where the good guys with guns are. I said there were laws. You called me a liar.

I posted the laws and restrictions.

You proved there is nothing of value to consider in your posts.

 

[Amelia]

We need to reverse the current course of demonizing and dehumanizing people. We need more sense of community. Civics classes could help, if they weren't in turn weaponized. But as with most things this begins at home. Some parents are teaching their children the values the Texas shooter had in his manifesto -- how does school compete with that? Among the parents who are trying to teach values opposite to what this shooter adopted, parents need to keep the lines of communication open with their children to help insulate the children from the poison from other sources.

AND improve mental health services.

 

[marke]

No need for do that. Just use sensible restrictions and limits and you can keep your handgun or rifle to enjoy your right to keep and bear arms.

Of course Americans will keep their Constitutionally protected guns. Most liberals know that which makes it strange that they keep suggesting those guns be taken away or restricted into the dirt.

 

[ataraxia]

Don't need to start taking away American guns that are similar to ones used by the military after so many years of Constitutionally protected ownership of those guns.

What has changed is the technology. These are not front loading muskets anymore.

 

[Lovebug]

We need to reverse the current course of demonizing and dehumanizing people. We need more sense of community. Civics classes could help, if they weren't in turn weaponized. But as with most things this begins at home. Some parents are teaching their children the values the Texas shooter had in his manifesto -- how does school compete with that? Among the parents who are trying to teach values opposite to what this shooter adopted, parents need to keep the lines of communication open with their children to help insulate the children from the poison from other sources.

AND improve mental health services.

Great idea. Perhaps bad wording on your part, or misinterpretation on mine, but when you blame dehumanizing, it comes across as a bit odd when you next blame parents for teaching hateful values at the home.

 

[ataraxia]

Guns are used in less than 10,000 murders in the US each year. More than 80,000 Americans die each year in traffic accidents. Don't ban cars or guns. We should do what we can to help minimize deaths by guns or autos but not go stupid with ideas that have little chance of working.

We have numerous laws, regulations, and licensing on cars, as well as other potentially dangerous tools. Not sure why we can’t do that With guns.

 

[marke]

I thought it was my idea.

Perhaps democrat minds think alike, like lemmings?

 

[ocean515]

What has changed is the technology. These are not front loading muskets anymore.

Breech loading flintlocks were introduced during the Revolutionary War...

Weapons that Won the American Revolutionary War

Ferguson Breech Loading Flintlock Rifle

One of the major advancements in weapon technology during this time was the Ferguson Breech Loading Flintlock Rifle. Because it enabled British soldiers to load their rifles from the breech instead of the muzzle, the rate of fire doubled to seven to eight shots per minute. Soldiers could reload while lying down – under cover – rather than constantly having to reload from the muzzle end while standing up.
​

Knowledge and facts, good to have some...

 

[beerftw]

What has changed is the technology. These are not front loading muskets anymore.

They had the tech before the founding fathers every lived, in the 1500's they had repeating rifles with dual 7 shot magazines, aka high capacity by anti gun standards holding a total of 14 shots. They held in eaach magazine enough powder and shot to load, and prime the flashpan with a single turn of a lever, literally comparable to a lever action. The also had revolvers in existence then as well just not widely adopted by anyone until colt, and there were multi shot air rifles that are deadly by todays standards and if pumped up before shooting could shoot quite a while before needing to recharge the tank.

 

[jet57]

Hmm... how is that plan working?

We're gonna find out. Yet another mass shooting with an assault rifle in Dayton Ohio:

Mass Shooting In Dayton, Ohio, Leaves At Least 9 Dead, 26 Injured | HuffPost

 

[Amelia]

Great idea. Perhaps bad wording on your part, or misinterpretation on mine, but when you blame dehumanizing, it comes across as a bit odd when you next blame parents for teaching hateful values at the home.

There is a difference between dehumanizing and pointing out that some parents are modeling and teaching dehumanizing behavior.

Observing that some parents teach antipathy for other ethnic groups is not dehumanizing those parents. It is stating simple fact in as neutral a way as I can see how to do it.

Objecting to objective observations on the grounds that I am "dehumanizing" the people that I am observing?


Sorry, if that's how you see it, then I will thank you for helping to model what part of the problem is here ... and I will leave it at that.

 

[Ahlevah]

Nope - we should NOT ban guns as you have the right to keep and bear arms. Lets simply restrict them as some laws always have done and make them unpopular, unsexy, and unmacho as we have done cigarettes.

We already restrict convicted felons from possessing guns. It isn't working. Neither is drug control. The Coast Guard just seized more than half-a-billion dollars worth of drugs. And cigarette smuggling is a great illicit business, too.

Coast Guard Seizes 40,000 Pounds of Drugs on High Seas | Time

Authorities bust $12M cigarette smuggling operation based in Fayetteville :: WRAL.com

As far as making guns unsexy, good luck with that. You're dreaming.

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[ataraxia]

They had the tech before the founding fathers every lived, in the 1500's they had repeating rifles with dual 7 shot magazines, aka high capacity by anti gun standards holding a total of 14 shots. They held in eaach magazine enough powder and shot to load, and prime the flashpan with a single turn of a lever, literally comparable to a lever action. The also had revolvers in existence then as well just not widely adopted by anyone until colt, and there were multi shot air rifles that are deadly by todays standards and if pumped up before shooting could shoot quite a while before needing to recharge the tank.

Surely we can agree that the technology has evolved since then.

And it will continue to evolve.

You cannot continue to have 18th century laws for 21st-century technology.

 

[ttwtt78640]

We're gonna find out. Yet another mass shooting with an assault rifle in Dayton Ohio:

Mass Shooting In Dayton, Ohio, Leaves At Least 9 Dead, 26 Injured | HuffPost

That example of "the enemy" is dead. The problem with your "disarm the enemy" plan is having the majority of people accept being treated like an enemy which must be disarmed by their government.

 

[marke]

As of today, there have been 250 mass shootings in the United States and that's in the span of just 216 days. How many mass murders were committed in Japan, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, by a maniac with a knife or Sarin gas?

In the last 30 years in the US there were 7 mass shootings with fatalities numbering 20 or more, including the latest in El Paso, which resulted in a total of 235 deaths. In the same period there were 12 mass shootings which resulted in the deaths of between 10 and 19 Americans, in which a total of 145 Americans were killed. What was the primary cause of these senseless murders, guns? No, ungodly rebellion against God and humanity. Hatred, wickedness, rebellion, brutality and savage behaviors were all causes of the mass murders. Some were religious fanatics, some were just thrill seekers, some were ideologues and others may have been something else, but all were completely out of touch with God and in rebellion against His will.

 

[Perotista]

We're all tired of them - we all want them to stop.

So what should we do to stop them? This is a multiple-choice, public poll. Please add any other comments in the thread.

They won't unless we're willing to take a look at history, willing to adjust our thinking and start seeking the root cause of the change from pre-1960's mass shootings and those that occurred after. The mindset of the shooter or those doing the killings. From 1900 through the 1960's there were a total of 28 mass shootings. An average of less than 2 per decade. But more important that the number of shooting was the cause or the reason. Most of these 28 mass shootings were familicides or felony related killings/shootings. In plain English, the shooting knew whom he was killing. No strangers, few innocent victims or bystanders. Also keep in mind that the 28 mass shootings include the gangster era of Al Capone when most of these mass shootings occurred. Felony related like the St. Valentines Massacre. You can see the number of mass shootings via decade below and more information.

Mass Shootings in America: A Historical Review - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

After the 1960's, probably beginning in the 1960's the mass shooter mindset changed, no longer were mass shootings familicdes and felony related. Most have occurred in public places against innocent bystanders, people for the most unknown by the shooter. It's became shooting, killing for killing's sake. Even gangsters had a reason, knew their victims, turf wars or control of illegal crime operations. A lot of the mass shootings today, there is no reason.

Are we willing to search into the cause or where we let our society go wrong that has caused the surge in mass shootings/killings of innocents, search for the root cause or do we continue to stick our head in the sand and blame an easy non-animate object? If the latter, mass shootings/killings will continue. If not by semi-automatics, then by rifles, shotguns, pistols. If not by guns, then by knives, machetes, bombs, fire, arson, the use of chemicals, driving cars into crowds and other means to cause mass destruction.

These killers aren't killing for greed, money, protection of turf or even from being angry at family members or bosses at the job. Knowing their victims. Remember the term going postal? They're killing anyone and everyone, most they don't know and don't care who they kill. Until we delve deep into our society to find out where we went wrong, to find the cause, mass killings will continue. The means may vary, change, but they will continue.

 

[beerftw]

Surely we can agree that the technology has evolved since then.

And it will continue to evolve.

You cannot continue to have 18th century laws for 21st-century technology.

Tech has evolved however much of the tech like repeating rifles and revolvers existed almost 200 years before the war of independance. If someone was wealthy enough a lorenzoni or cookson repeater could be had that was very fast to reload rounds and even refill magazines, with the only major limitation being the flint since it was a wheel locke which still used a flint that would wear down over repeated use requiring knapping the flint.

However the laws work just fine, free speech was made when press and conversation were the only forms, so do phones internet etc not count under free speech because of the laws being too old? Does unlawful search and siezure only count for foundation single family homes of the 1700's and not apply to apartments mobile homes etc? The amendments were never designed to only cover a short period but rather remain constant despite tech changes.

 

[marke]

It may not be soon. We should not be powerless to enact laws for our own safety because we are supposedly “free”.

You have no right to take away other people's rights to protect themselves just because you selfishly want for your own protection mandated conditions to which violate the rights of others and make them less safe.

 

[marke]

Maybe. But they haven’t done jack anywhere so far.

I predict no gunman will every try to commit a gun crime in our school as long as it is generally known that many of our teachers carry loaded concealed weapons. I am sorry for places like Sandy Hook where no teacher was armed for her own protection and the protection of her students.

 

[cabse5]

SIAP. I don't get all hot and bothered when there's gun violence. Why? 'cause gun violence isn't anywhere close to being the top of the list of causes of abnormal death in the US. Not all gun violence is reported ad nauseum. When was the last time, for example, someone from the MSM posted about gun violence from inner city Chicago?

This is a political issue.

 

[marke]

That’s not what the studies show. All the studies show that areas with more guns have more violent crime. But when have facts ever stopped you?

You should try to wean yourself off of fake news. However, to be charitable, post your support for your claim and let me take a look at it. Also, when you talk of areas with more guns are you referring to areas with more illegal guns or just more guns? Does Montana have more guns than Chicago? What about areas like Chicago with more gun laws, is that something you include in your findings?

 

[cabse5]

SIAP. I think it strange that a supposed white supremacist shot up a Wal Mart. That would be like a democrat disagreeing with climate change policy..

Were all the victims minorities? I understand El Paso is right on the border with Mexico. I admit, I didn't watch much of the coverage of the shooting.

 

[TurtleDude]

Right, and in Germany this week, the 2 big stories involved migrant men going on attack sprees, with one African man pushing people onto a subway track killing a 7 year old boy, and a Syrian migrant who killed a man in the middle of a street in Stuttgart, in broad daylight. Police in the Stuttgart murder have offered little information about that case, other than warning the public that they may arrest people who post video of the incident (2 bystanders shot videos) online.

I don't recall liberals and progressives being particularly upset with Islamic terrorism or the new norms of migrant crime in Germany, but they are calling for all sorts of government intervention now that the kind of terrorism has seemed to changed currently.

Islamist jihadists don't vote against leftwing interests. Hence, the hatred towards such terrorists is limited.

 

[beerftw]

SIAP. I think it strange that a supposed white supremacist shot up a Wal Mart. That would be like a democrat disagreeing with climate change policy..

Were all the victims minorities? I understand El Paso is right on the border with Mexico. I admit, I didn't watch much of the coverage of the shooting.

Your average walmart is going to reflect the demographics of the local population. We have a walmart in temple texas we call the mexican walmart, because most of the population that uses it is from mexico, and that is due to the part of town it is in. I never had any problems in that walmart nor has anyone I have known, no harrassment for being white or black or brown there, but the racial makup of that walmart location is very evident to be heavily hispanic and near 100% of the hispanics being mexican.

 

[marke]

These kinds of crazy things don’t happen in any other country in the world, because they have laws.

Chicago also has laws, but those laws are not working. I suggest we stop promoting more of those kinds of laws which are not working and try to come up with something else sensible which may work.