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What should NATO do if a Russian bomb lands in a NATO country or a Russian plane flies in a NATO country's air space?

independentusa

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If the russians are dumb enough to have a bomb or artillery piece shoot into a NATO country or a Russian plane fly into a NTO country's air space? Would it thn be time to go after the Russian military?
 

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Yes or NATO becomes a complete joke. Frankly I think its time for the western democracies to get more aggressive across the board. Get Ukraine more drones and get them Jets as well. There simply is not enough 3 dimensionality to Ukraines defensive tactics at this point. When Russian tanks can simply stand off and fire point blank into civilian dwellings your Javelins are not getting it done.

Give Ukraine drones. Give them Jets. Fugg Putin and his threats. Fugg him right in the ass.
 

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The same thing they always do when their own members are attacked, of course. All NATO members have an obligation to provide military and humanitarian help when a fellow NATO member nation is attacked, no matter what. They helped America in September 2001.
 

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If the russians are dumb enough to have a bomb or artillery piece shoot into a NATO country or a Russian plane fly into a NTO country's air space? Would it thn be time to go after the Russian military?

It depends. Merely dropping a bomb or artillery shell in an empty field, most likely by accident, doesn't warrant anything more than stiff warning. Bombing a NATO base or supply convoy inside a NATO country would deserve an immediate and proportional response...be it getting far more serious about supplying Ukraine or an airstrike against the ground unit or air base that conducted the attack.

The point being, to strike back two or three times as hard as the original Russian aggressors.
 

jnug

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It depends. Merely dropping a bomb or artillery shell in an empty field, most likely by accident, doesn't warrant anything more than stiff warning. Bombing a NATO base or supply convoy inside a NATO country would deserve an immediate and proportional response...be it getting far more serious about supplying Ukraine or an airstrike against unit or air base that conducted the attack.

The point being, to strike back twice as hard as the original Russian aggression.
I don't think that an appropriate response.

Russia is purposefully using dumb munitions as a terror tactic. If one strays across the border into NATO territory and I thought it was an accident I would lob something back anyway.
 

TheParser

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I Would it thn be time to go after the Russian military?
No.

It could have been a genuine mistake.

But if it happens twice, then the affected country should take appropriate action.

The second time that a Russian plane flies into another country's air space, it should be shot down.

If a bomb accidentally lands in a NATO country a second time, I have no idea of how to reply.
 
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maxparrish

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It depends. Merely dropping a bomb or artillery shell in an empty field, most likely by accident, doesn't warrant anything more than stiff warning. Bombing a NATO base or supply convoy inside a NATO country would deserve an immediate and proportional response...be it getting far more serious about supplying Ukraine or an airstrike against the ground unit or air base that conducted the attack.

The point being, to strike back two or three times as hard as the original Russian aggressors.

The question that should have been asked is:

If Russia strikes a NATO supply convoy in Ukraine, what should be the response?

That is a far more likely event.
 

jnug

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The question that should have been asked is:

If Russia strikes a NATO supply convoy in Ukraine, what should be the response?

That is a far more likely event.
I would be surprised if its actually NATO personnel driving the stuff around Ukraine. Up to the border yes...then hand off to Ukrainians to take it the rest of the way.
 

Peter King

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If the russians are dumb enough to have a bomb or artillery piece shoot into a NATO country or a Russian plane fly into a NTO country's air space? Would it thn be time to go after the Russian military?
chase them over the border with our own jets, or track it with surface to air missiles and tell them they have 10 minutes to get out of NATO airspace or NATO will take measures to defend itself and it's members.
 

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If the russians are dumb enough to have a bomb or artillery piece shoot into a NATO country or a Russian plane fly into a NTO country's air space? Would it thn be time to go after the Russian military?

I think that's the point of NATO.

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jnug

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chase them over the border with our own jets, or track it with surface to air missiles and tell them they have 10 minutes to get out of NATO airspace or NATO will take measures to defend itself and it's members.
Light them up with your electronic targeting equipment and keep them lit up until they are back across the border. If they don't respond to the request to leave take them down.
 

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I would be surprised if its actually NATO personnel driving the stuff around Ukraine. Up to the border yes...then hand off to Ukrainians to take it the rest of the way.

That was my first assumption. But I'm getting small indications that these convoys are in trucks supplied by NATO. I guess it comes down to whether or not the divers and support folk are NATO or not.
 

jnug

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That was my first assumption. But I'm getting small indications that these convoys are in trucks supplied by NATO. I guess it comes down to whether or not the divers and support folk are NATO or not.
Correct, a truck is really no different than a Javelin. If its NATO personnel driving the material around Ukraine, I would be surprised at that mainly because there is really no reason to expect Russia to look at a supply column in Ukraine and not attack it just because it was in NATO livery.
 

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It depends. Merely dropping a bomb or artillery shell in an empty field, most likely by accident, doesn't warrant anything more than stiff warning. Bombing a NATO base or supply convoy inside a NATO country would deserve an immediate and proportional response...be it getting far more serious about supplying Ukraine or an airstrike against the ground unit or air base that conducted the attack.

The point being, to strike back two or three times as hard as the original Russian aggressors.

I stopped reading after the word accident. There is no such thing as an accidental bombing against an opponent you were trying to literally destroy with a bomb. And if they use a bomb, there is no empty field. It is done in a city with thousands of people.

How much have you been watching CNN, which shows live bombings in cities every hour?
 

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I stopped reading after the word accident. There is no such thing as an accidental bombing against an opponent you were trying to literally destroy with a bomb. And if they use a bomb, the "empty field" is not the only place they destroy.
If Russia drops dumb bombs or even smart weapons so close to the border with a NATO country that it strays across the border, that is on Russia and we should respond accordingly as in take out the asset that fired or similar asset.....whatever....I don't care which. I might even do more than that under those circumstances.

Getting tired of Putin's threats having anything to do with anything.
 

Peter King

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Light them up with your electronic targeting equipment and keep them lit up until they are back across the border. If they don't respond to the request to leave take them down.
Which is what I said, send planes after them, track them with air defenses and run them out of member space.

Also increase the NATO presence in the Mediterranean sea to let the Russians know we can bomb your troops from all sides (if they violate NATO member space or lands).
 

maxparrish

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I stopped reading after the word accident. There is no such thing as an accidental bombing against an opponent you were trying to literally destroy with a bomb. And if they use a bomb, there is no empty field. It is done in a city with thousands of people.

How much have you been watching CNN, which shows live bombings in cities every hour?

Of course, and I am also aware that pilots make mistakes. Dropping dumb bombs from high altitudes near a border could, depending on circumstances land over the border.
 

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Of course, and I am also aware that pilots make mistakes. Dropping dumb bombs from high altitudes near a border could, depending on circumstances land over the border.

All war pilots know when and where to drop bombs. If they do it at the wrong time or place, that is the commander's fault.

CNN reported today Russian airstrikes are happening near a NATO border now. Senator Branden (D-Pennsylvania) was interviewed about the possibility of Congress passing a bill to send fighter jets to Ukraine. He thinks such a bill will pass easily.
 

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All war pilots know when and where to drop bombs. If they do it at the wrong time or place, that is the commander's fault.

CNN reported today Russian airstrikes are happening near a NATO border now. Senator Branden (D-Pennsylvania) was interviewed about the possibility of Congress passing a bill to send fighter jets to Ukraine. He thinks such a bill will pass easily.

I think it will pass the Senate if voted on (Schumer may block it). It might even pass the house, depending on Nancy's current state of mind.
 

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what we should do is to respond proportionately and to both deter and prevent escalation, with clear statements what we are doing and why.
 

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I think it will pass the Senate if voted on (Schumer may block it). It might even pass the House, depending on Nancy's current state of mind.

Why would Chuck Schumer block it based on what Nancy Pelosi thinks? He has his own opinions, you know.
 

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what we should do is to respond proportionately and to both deter and prevent escalation, with clear statements what we are doing and why.

Russia is going to escalate warfare no matter what we do. The best course of action is sending Ukraine fighter jets to fly over Kyiv and Lviv.
 

maxparrish

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Why would Chuck Schumer block it based on what Nancy Pelosi thinks? He has his own opinions, you know.

My reading is that a majority of Senate Democrats want to back Biden. Unless Schumer is siding with the Democrats who sponsored and joined with the Republicans to make a 58 majority, then yes, he would block it. However, I am unaware of Schumer's own views are on this matter.

Ms Nancy also has her own views, initially backing Biden but most recently muttering about how things have changed...

Frankly, if Biden keeps up his stubbornness, whatever bounce he had from supporting Ukraine is going to disappear (if it has not already) and he's going to piss off many Democrats, and all Republicans (for one reason or another).

If Biden enters the midterms with Ukraine a char house, and him refusing to help, rest assured it will the largest midterm disaster for Democrats in US history.
 

independentusa

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All war pilots know when and where to drop bombs. If they do it at the wrong time or place, that is the commander's fault.

CNN reported today Russian airstrikes are happening near a NATO border now. Senator Branden (D-Pennsylvania) was interviewed about the possibility of Congress passing a bill to send fighter jets to Ukraine. He thinks such a bill will pass easily.
If it does happen, it would be the excuse that NATO needs for a no fly zone.
 

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If it does happen, it would be the excuse that NATO needs for a no fly zone.

NATO does not need an excuse. It needs a legitimate, totally justified reason based only on new facts about the Border War to believe military aid is necessary. At this time, they have it.
 
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