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What should be our drug policy?

What should be our drug policy?

  • maintain the status quo

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • double down and increase enforcement

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • decriminalize drug use and fund rehabilitation

    Votes: 6 23.1%

  • legalize and regulate

    Votes: 15 57.7%

  • other (please explain)

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • not sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    26
M

Masterhawk

DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
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Location
Colorado
Gender
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Political Leaning
Independent
There is no doubt that the war on drugs has contributed to America's abysmally high incarceration rate. As many as 48.6% of all American inmates are in for drug offenses. 80% of gun homicides are gang related. Some states such as Arizona do drug testing for welfare recipients. Even when state law doesn't mandate drug testing, a considerable percentage of employers will. But it's not just recreational drug users who are negatively affected by the war on drugs. According to the controlled substances act, marijuana, heroin, LSD are schedule 1 drugs which means that they have no recognized medicinal use. Meanwhile, cocaine and meth make the schedule 2 list, preserving their legit medicinal use but components used to make them are heavily regulated.

And not only that but the outcome of the war on drugs was rather disappointing. Even though the federal, state, and local governments spent $1.3 trillion to make America drug free, drug addiction rates remained roughly the same at 1.3% (even Fox News admits that the war on drugs failed).

https://www.google.com/#q=what+percent+of+prisoners+are+in+for+drugs

SHRM poll reveals half of employers conduct drug tests on final job candidates | Employment Law Daily

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/chart-says-war-drugs-isnt-working/322592/

AP IMPACT: After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals | Fox News

So what are the solutions?

One solution is to double down on the war on drugs like the Philippines and Singapore have.

Another solution is to decriminalize all drugs like Portugal has done and rehabilitate drug users. Switzerland's heroin assisted therapy has had an amazing effect in reducing the harm caused by heroin (I suggest you google search it to learn more). In the 1920s, the UK did Switzeralnd's solution for heroin on all drugs. The group administering drug assisted treatment was called the Rolleston Committee. The result was low drug use in the UK until the 1960s when the comittee was disbanded and drug use was criminalized as it was in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolleston_Committee

The last solution is legalization with regulation and taxation. Legalization would significantly reduce drug arrests and put a considerable dent in mass incarceration. People who are caught using illegal drugs are put into handcuffs, go thorugh the justice system, and serve time in jail; all of those things cost the state money. However last year, Colorado made $1 billion in tax revenue from marijuana, well more than the cost of regulating it.
http://fortune.com/2016/12/13/colorado-billion-legal-marijuana-sales/

So what solution should we embrace?
 
Masterhawk said:
There is no doubt that the war on drugs has contributed to America's abysmally high incarceration rate. As many as 48.6% of all American inmates are in for drug offenses. 80% of gun homicides are gang related. Some states such as Arizona do drug testing for welfare recipients. Even when state law doesn't mandate drug testing, a considerable percentage of employers will. But it's not just recreational drug users who are negatively affected by the war on drugs. According to the controlled substances act, marijuana, heroin, LSD are schedule 1 drugs which means that they have no recognized medicinal use. Meanwhile, cocaine and meth make the schedule 2 list, preserving their legit medicinal use but components used to make them are heavily regulated.

And not only that but the outcome of the war on drugs was rather disappointing. Even though the federal, state, and local governments spent $1.3 trillion to make America drug free, drug addiction rates remained roughly the same at 1.3% (even Fox News admits that the war on drugs failed).

https://www.google.com/#q=what+percent+of+prisoners+are+in+for+drugs

SHRM poll reveals half of employers conduct drug tests on final job candidates | Employment Law Daily

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/chart-says-war-drugs-isnt-working/322592/

AP IMPACT: After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals | Fox News

So what are the solutions?

One solution is to double down on the war on drugs like the Philippines and Singapore have.

Another solution is to decriminalize all drugs like Portugal has done and rehabilitate drug users. Switzerland's heroin assisted therapy has had an amazing effect in reducing the harm caused by heroin (I suggest you google search it to learn more). In the 1920s, the UK did Switzeralnd's solution for heroin on all drugs. The group administering drug assisted treatment was called the Rolleston Committee. The result was low drug use in the UK until the 1960s when the comittee was disbanded and drug use was criminalized as it was in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolleston_Committee

The last solution is legalization with regulation and taxation. Legalization would significantly reduce drug arrests and put a considerable dent in mass incarceration. People who are caught using illegal drugs are put into handcuffs, go thorugh the justice system, and serve time in jail; all of those things cost the state money. However last year, Colorado made $1 billion in tax revenue from marijuana, well more than the cost of regulating it.
http://fortune.com/2016/12/13/colorado-billion-legal-marijuana-sales/

So what solution should we embrace?
Click to expand...

C and D
 
Legalize marijuana, keep everything else criminal and increase enforcement but lower sentencing for simple possession.
 
Decriminalize/legalize and regulate using "sin" taxes to fund any public rehabilitation programs. Simply because something is not illegal does not make it safe for use in the workplace or while driving on public roadways. The idea of "legal" heroin (or synthetic opiates), meth or cocaine for recreational use is bound to create an increase in addiction and "accidental" overdoses which would make the associated taxation keep a "street trade" in these substances intact.
 
First off, we need to stop including marijuana in with all those other "drugs."

The question asks us what we should do about our drug policy. That's a pretty broad brush.

We need to double down on opiate and cocaine penalties. But we should legalize and regulate pot the same as we do beer and liquor.
 
Captain America said:
First off, we need to stop including marijuana in with all those other "drugs."

The question asks us what we should do about our drug policy. That's a pretty broad brush.

We need to double down on opiate and cocaine penalties. But we should legalize and regulate pot the same as we do beer and liquor.
Click to expand...
That's just asinine. We don't need to keep filling prisons with drug addicts. We need to help them.
 
Make pot as easy to get and as legal as cigs are, take no further action against alcohol or tobacco, move heavy drug user cases to the public health sector (production and trafficking stay criminal, punished harder than now). Users get rehab first offense, fully paid by the state, rehab while doing 30 days in jail second offense, 6 months jail plus 3 months halfway house third offense and after.
 
countryboy said:
That's just asinine. We don't need to keep filling prisons with drug addicts. We need to help them.
Click to expand...
Both carrots and sticks are required, if jail is not the stick then tell me what is.
 
A mixture of legalize and decriminalize, depending on an honest assessment of each substance.


Let's just say that I think allowing liquor stores to sell heroin would be going too far....
 
Masterhawk said:
There is no doubt that the war on drugs has contributed to America's abysmally high incarceration rate. As many as 48.6% of all American inmates are in for drug offenses. 80% of gun homicides are gang related. Some states such as Arizona do drug testing for welfare recipients. Even when state law doesn't mandate drug testing, a considerable percentage of employers will. But it's not just recreational drug users who are negatively affected by the war on drugs. According to the controlled substances act, marijuana, heroin, LSD are schedule 1 drugs which means that they have no recognized medicinal use. Meanwhile, cocaine and meth make the schedule 2 list, preserving their legit medicinal use but components used to make them are heavily regulated.

And not only that but the outcome of the war on drugs was rather disappointing. Even though the federal, state, and local governments spent $1.3 trillion to make America drug free, drug addiction rates remained roughly the same at 1.3% (even Fox News admits that the war on drugs failed).

https://www.google.com/#q=what+percent+of+prisoners+are+in+for+drugs

SHRM poll reveals half of employers conduct drug tests on final job candidates | Employment Law Daily

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/chart-says-war-drugs-isnt-working/322592/

AP IMPACT: After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals | Fox News

So what are the solutions?

One solution is to double down on the war on drugs like the Philippines and Singapore have.

Another solution is to decriminalize all drugs like Portugal has done and rehabilitate drug users. Switzerland's heroin assisted therapy has had an amazing effect in reducing the harm caused by heroin (I suggest you google search it to learn more). In the 1920s, the UK did Switzeralnd's solution for heroin on all drugs. The group administering drug assisted treatment was called the Rolleston Committee. The result was low drug use in the UK until the 1960s when the comittee was disbanded and drug use was criminalized as it was in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolleston_Committee

The last solution is legalization with regulation and taxation. Legalization would significantly reduce drug arrests and put a considerable dent in mass incarceration. People who are caught using illegal drugs are put into handcuffs, go thorugh the justice system, and serve time in jail; all of those things cost the state money. However last year, Colorado made $1 billion in tax revenue from marijuana, well more than the cost of regulating it.
http://fortune.com/2016/12/13/colorado-billion-legal-marijuana-sales/

So what solution should we embrace?
Click to expand...

I've always been for criminal prosecution with a mandatory open sentence in rehab. You don't get out, ever, until there is a high degree of certainty that you have kicked the habit. No 30 days followed by programs. You don't get out until experts determine you have kicked the habit before being released. If it happens again then you are committed for a period longer than the first period.
 
Masterhawk said:
There is no doubt that the war on drugs has contributed to America's abysmally high incarceration rate. As many as 48.6% of all American inmates are in for drug offenses. 80% of gun homicides are gang related. Some states such as Arizona do drug testing for welfare recipients. Even when state law doesn't mandate drug testing, a considerable percentage of employers will. But it's not just recreational drug users who are negatively affected by the war on drugs. According to the controlled substances act, marijuana, heroin, LSD are schedule 1 drugs which means that they have no recognized medicinal use. Meanwhile, cocaine and meth make the schedule 2 list, preserving their legit medicinal use but components used to make them are heavily regulated.

And not only that but the outcome of the war on drugs was rather disappointing. Even though the federal, state, and local governments spent $1.3 trillion to make America drug free, drug addiction rates remained roughly the same at 1.3% (even Fox News admits that the war on drugs failed).

https://www.google.com/#q=what+percent+of+prisoners+are+in+for+drugs

SHRM poll reveals half of employers conduct drug tests on final job candidates | Employment Law Daily

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/10/chart-says-war-drugs-isnt-working/322592/

AP IMPACT: After 40 years, $1 trillion, US War on Drugs has failed to meet any of its goals | Fox News

So what are the solutions?

One solution is to double down on the war on drugs like the Philippines and Singapore have.

Another solution is to decriminalize all drugs like Portugal has done and rehabilitate drug users. Switzerland's heroin assisted therapy has had an amazing effect in reducing the harm caused by heroin (I suggest you google search it to learn more). In the 1920s, the UK did Switzeralnd's solution for heroin on all drugs. The group administering drug assisted treatment was called the Rolleston Committee. The result was low drug use in the UK until the 1960s when the comittee was disbanded and drug use was criminalized as it was in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolleston_Committee

The last solution is legalization with regulation and taxation. Legalization would significantly reduce drug arrests and put a considerable dent in mass incarceration. People who are caught using illegal drugs are put into handcuffs, go thorugh the justice system, and serve time in jail; all of those things cost the state money. However last year, Colorado made $1 billion in tax revenue from marijuana, well more than the cost of regulating it.
http://fortune.com/2016/12/13/colorado-billion-legal-marijuana-sales/

So what solution should we embrace?
Click to expand...

Throwing more taxpayer dollars at law enforcement, court & incarceration hasn't put a dent in it. EDUCATION is the key.
Those ugly pictures of boys and girls with teeth missing, and sores all over their faces who were on meth on billboards did more to stop the use of it, than anything else.
 
countryboy said:
How's that working out now?
Click to expand...

I am listening for alternatives......

Remember I am talking about confinement certain, on day one no more three month wait for beds, paid in full by us the citizens, and we keep them away from drugs as we try to help them.

Not what we do now.
 
Last edited:
Slingshot Bob said:
Legalizing heroin, coke and meth would be insane.
Click to expand...

Why is that? Why shouldn't an adult be able to do what he wants as long as he is not harming others? Trying to protect people from themselves is idiotic. If they want to take that crap let them. Why is it anyone's business?
 
Legalization and Darwin.

Get it out in the open, eliminate the forbidden fruit factor.

No need to hide it so social factors can come into play.

Raise your kids. Its not my job.
 
Legalize them all. No one should be punished for what they do to their own body.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
I just don't think giving people free license would be wise, granted, the current situation is a failure
Click to expand...

I don't think putting thousands of inner city youth in prison for selling or buying narcotics and turning them into real criminals is a good idea. I spent 24 years dealing with the victims of the war on drugs and I can tell you, trying to eradicate a market driven activity is idiotic. you see, if there is a child molester or a serial killer in an area and we pop him, there is no market based forces that create another one. but if you have 100 coke fiends being supplied by Esteban and Esteban gets popped by the DEA, you have 100 coke fiends wanting coke and that creates another dealer. Nothing changes except in 12 years, Esteban gets out and is now a hard core criminal. and so is the guy who took his place and was busted. Nothing changes except we are creating lots of young men who are "institutionalized" meaning they can no longer function in lawful society

its idiotic. unless you are willing to shoot every addict and dealer, punitive law enforcement is only creating more problems-especially more vicious and well trained criminals-then its solving
 
Slingshot Bob said:
See post 20
Click to expand...

And what exactly was I supposed to see in that post? You stated your opinion with nothing to support it. Why wouldn't it be wise? There are FAR more benefits to legalization than to continue a pointless war on drugs. If conservatives truly cared about liberty or rising debt then stopping the war on drugs should be the #1 item on the agenda.
 
Nap said:
And what exactly was I supposed to see in that post? You stated your opinion with nothing to support it. Why wouldn't it be wise? There are FAR more benefits to legalization than to continue a pointless war on drugs. If conservatives truly cared about liberty or rising debt then stopping the war on drugs should be the #1 item on the agenda.
Click to expand...

That is just my opinion, I stated nothing more. As a former meth addict, I think that would be crazy.
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't think putting thousands of inner city youth in prison for selling or buying narcotics and turning them into real criminals is a good idea. I spent 24 years dealing with the victims of the war on drugs and I can tell you, trying to eradicate a market driven activity is idiotic. you see, if there is a child molester or a serial killer in an area and we pop him, there is no market based forces that create another one. but if you have 100 coke fiends being supplied by Esteban and Esteban gets popped by the DEA, you have 100 coke fiends wanting coke and that creates another dealer. Nothing changes except in 12 years, Esteban gets out and is now a hard core criminal. and so is the guy who took his place and was busted. Nothing changes except we are creating lots of young men who are "institutionalized" meaning they can no longer function in lawful society

its idiotic. unless you are willing to shoot every addict and dealer, punitive law enforcement is only creating more problems-especially more vicious and well trained criminals-then its solving
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that, but what is the solution?
 
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