What really is atheism?

[cavehunter]

God is a theory, but a much different kind of theory than evolution. Evolution is a based on scientific tests and observations that are provable. Religion is based on faith and is not provable.

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

SECTION 87
Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. HC 1: 301—302. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.

4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.

5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.

6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;

7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabbath, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.

8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

 

[cavehunter]

What about man-made law? What about religions that encourage harm onto others?

Why are you attempted to equate atheism to a lack of morals? Morality is relative and is not derivative from religion. People go by societal mores more than religion anyways, but that's not to say that they're mutually exclusive either.

You're welcome to your beliefs. Pardon me for not coming along with the newest mythological fad though.

If there is no God how is there a right and wrong? Surely all men and women do believe that there is a right and wrong. Atheists believe all Mankind is nothing more than an intelligent animal. Then how come we have emotions? It has nothing to do with the basics of survival instincts.

 

[Pacridge]

If you say that the ACLU defends people when their rights are being attacked, how come they have never defended my rights at school? The school forces me and other kids to act like we're atheists. They press the Big Bang theory and evolution on us. Those are the ideas of atheists. How come I have to learn something against my religion? Whenever an atheist is taught the fact of Creationism they say their rights are being violated.

Our society has come to live a double-standard. I have to prove Creationism
to win an argument while an atheist opponent has to merely say, "The big bang theory makes sense doesn't it?" In science it seems something is a theory only if it explains how something may occur. Whenever somebody may put the thought of God in there it is no longer a theory.

If you believe your rights, per the US Constitution, are being violated I encourage you to contact them directly. They seriously have a history of supporting both sides of the fence religiously.

As for having to learn something against your religion. Religion and science have a long history of disagreement. Many of the things religions have claimed has been disproven by science. See flat earth, center of universe for details. Faith is something you take on faith, simply put. If faith is working for you, makes your life feel complete, you should embrace it. That's not to say you should disregard facts and or logic, or see them as opposition to your faith.

 

[Alex]

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

SECTION 87
Revelation and prophecy on war, given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, December 25, 1832. HC 1: 301—302. This section was received at a time when the brethren were reflecting and reasoning upon African slavery on the American continent and the slavery of the children of men throughout the world.

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;

2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.

3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.

4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.

5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.

6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full fend of all nations;

7 That the cry of the saints, and of the blood of the saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabbath, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.

8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold, it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.

You'll need to explain what this proves, because I am not following.

 

[shuamort]

If there is no God how is there a right and wrong? Surely all men and women do believe that there is a right and wrong.

Societal mores as I've explained. I grew up without a religion and I can tell the difference between right and wrong. Does your religion say anything about humming a song over and over and over and annoying the people around you? Do you think that that behavior is wrong? How did you come to that conclusion?

Atheists believe all Mankind is nothing more than an intelligent animal. Then how come we have emotions? It has nothing to do with the basics of survival instincts.

Really, can you scientifically prove that emotions have nothing to do with survival instincts?

 

[Alex]

Atheists believe all Mankind is nothing more than an intelligent animal. Then how come we have emotions? It has nothing to do with the basics of survival instincts.

Emotions can be explained scientifically. They involve cell receptors, neurons, and endorphins. Rent the documentary "What The *BLEEP* Do We Know?". It explains our emotions by science.

 

[Kelzie]

Emotions can be explained scientifically. They involve cell receptors, neurons, and endorphins. Rent the documentary "What The *BLEEP* Do We Know?". It explains our emotions by science.

That was a fantastic movie! I just saw it last night. Although I'm a little sceptical about the water experiment...I read more about it and he was basically just taking pictures of ice crystals as they were forming. And I couldn't find anything about the experiment being duplicated, which leads me to believe that they were just pretty ice crystals.

 

[Dogger807]

If someone believes that they can do whatever they want, they have no standard to keep themselves from causing harm to others. To believe you can do whatever you want is the same as believing there is no right or wrong. If there is no right or wrong people would not feel bad if they killed someone because in their mind there is no power to punish them. Atheism is the means the devil has employed to cause us to rebel against God.

So basically your saying it's evil because without a standard of morales of right and wrong the strong will prey on the weak. Something those of religious backgrounds have been doing for centuries and in turn justifying thru their religion.

That the strong should protect the weak is the basis of many philosophies and not just the brain child of religion. In fact history shows that those who believe in religion are more likely to kill and show no remorse in doing so.. because it is the right thing. How's that for morales.

Oh , atheism is a tool of the devil... well it's a pretty weak tool when all an omnipresent god has to do is say "I'm here." to render it impotent.

Come on all who don't believe the way I do isn't a standard for a rational omnipotent being... it is however an excellent way to make mortals follow the whims of other mortals making up stories to control the people.

 

[cavehunter]

So basically your saying it's evil because without a standard of morales of right and wrong the strong will prey on the weak. Something those of religious backgrounds have been doing for centuries and in turn justifying thru their religion.

That the strong should protect the weak is the basis of many philosophies and not just the brain child of religion. In fact history shows that those who believe in religion are more likely to kill and show no remorse in doing so.. because it is the right thing. How's that for morales.

Oh , atheism is a tool of the devil... well it's a pretty weak tool when all an omnipresent god has to do is say "I'm here." to render it impotent.

Come on all who don't believe the way I do isn't a standard for a rational omnipotent being... it is however an excellent way to make mortals follow the whims of other mortals making up stories to control the people.

YOU TRY TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE GOD DOES NOT ALLOW US OUR AGENCY. God does not stop every little thing the devil does. Life is a test to find God and obey him. If we had a PERFECT knowledge there would be no test. God does not start or cause evil. He only allows it so that we may decide between good and evil. There is opposition in all things.

YOU ONCE AGAIN ARE USING THE IDEA THAT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE KILL ALL THOSE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW. THIS IS NOT TRUE. From the beginning of our existence God ruled in his theocracy by delegating power to his prophets. In time man rebelled against God and formed his own false religions to gain power. Hence the beginning of the heathens. The heathen peoples would then plague their followers minds with the notion that all those who did not follow their religion should be killed. Hence once again the wars which you speak of where it was said, "They were evil they should be killed." God himself does not wish us to kill.

 

[shuamort]

YOU TRY TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE GOD DOES NOT ALLOW US OUR AGENCY.

And you try to make it sound like there is a deity. I got a feeling you're not going to convince any of the atheists here.

 

[cavehunter]

Emotions can be explained scientifically. They involve cell receptors, neurons, and endorphins. Rent the documentary "What The *BLEEP* Do We Know?". It explains our emotions by science.

I know that there is a God. We must know of him, worship him, and we must choose between him and the devil. After those of us that do choose him do, he helps us form an even greater belief in him.

Surely you must know that there is a God. If we know how emotions work, how come we as Mankind can't make our computers have emotions? God is perfect, Man is weak and knows not even a speck compared to what God knows. Please go to this address.

http://scriptures.lds.org/pgp/contents

 

[cavehunter]

And you try to make it sound like there is a deity. I got a feeling you're not going to convince any of the atheists here.

I have a feeling you won't convince me that there is no God. God exists. You cannot deny the fact that I have knowledge of this. A priceless pearl of knowledge it is to know.

 

[loverofpeace]

Cavehunter, you confuse me.

The ACLU does not preach atheism, as much as you want to believe it. They protect our Constitutional liberties, from the right to free speech to the right to bear arms to the freedom to exercise ANY religion. (So it actually sounds like they're helping you, not spreading evil) I'm sorry if you think our Constitutional liberties are bad. I like having them. And I too am a proud card-carrying member.

Secondly, atheism has nothing to do with being evil. Atheism is not a religion. An atheist does not believe in a god(s). It sounds to me that you didn't really want to know what atheism was, you were just keen on making a forum to bad mouth it in. I thought a good Christian would accept everybody, no matter what their views were. Clearly, I was wrong. Tell me, do you think everyone with a different religion than you is immoral, or just the atheists?

I feel that no one really knows if there is a god. Some of us have a little more faith than others, and that's where believing comes into play. You know there is a god because you have a lot of faith.

There is nothing wrong with feeling that humans should be allowed to do whatever they want.... as long as they don't hurt others. People can still have morals without religion.

(And to everyone else) By the way, I too have seen What the Bleep Do We Know? It's awesome!

And I really like what you have to say, dogger807.

 

[shuamort]

I have a feeling you won't convince me that there is no God. God exists. You cannot deny the fact that I have knowledge of this. A priceless pearl of knowledge it is to know.

Sure I can. I can completely and unequivocally deny that you have knowledge of that. I believe you have faith that a deity exists, but no knowledge that one exists. Big gulf in the difference.

 

[cavehunter]

You'll need to explain what this proves, because I am not following.

The American Civil War was prophesied by the prophet Joseph Smith 29 years before it ever began. I doubt anyone of the false religions or an atheist could predict that. Did anyone of your fellow atheists predict World War I in 1885?
War would be poured out among all the world beginning at that time. War has always existed, but ever to the degree prophesied and later occurred? Never.

 

[cavehunter]

Cavehunter, you confuse me.

The ACLU does not preach atheism, as much as you want to believe it. They protect our Constitutional liberties, from the right to free speech to the right to bear arms to the freedom to exercise ANY religion. (So it actually sounds like they're helping you, not spreading evil) I'm sorry if you think our Constitutional liberties are bad. I like having them. And I too am a proud card-carrying member.

Secondly, atheism has nothing to do with being evil. Atheism is not a religion. An atheist does not believe in a god(s). It sounds to me that you didn't really want to know what atheism was, you were just keen on making a forum to bad mouth it in. I thought a good Christian would accept everybody, no matter what their views were. Clearly, I was wrong. Tell me, do you think everyone with a different religion than you is immoral, or just the atheists?

I feel that no one really knows if there is a god. Some of us have a little more faith than others, and that's where believing comes into play. You know there is a god because you have a lot of faith.

There is nothing wrong with feeling that humans should be allowed to do whatever they want.... as long as they don't hurt others. People can still have morals without religion.

(And to everyone else) By the way, I too have seen What the Bleep Do We Know? It's awesome!

And I really like what you have to say, dogger807.

I attack not atheists. I discredit atheism and false religion.

 

[loverofpeace]

I attack not atheists. I discredit atheism and false religion.

But atheism is not a religion, so therefore it cannot even be a false religion.

 

[shuamort]

The American Civil War was prophesied by the prophet Joseph Smith 29 years before it ever began. I doubt anyone of the false religions or an atheist could predict that. Did anyone of your fellow atheists predict World War I in 1885?
War would be poured out among all the world beginning at that time. War has always existed, but ever to the degree prophesied and later occurred? Never.

Ahhhhh.... Mormonism. Well, that's whole other can of beans and magical underwear there.

 

[Pacridge]

Ahhhhh.... Mormonism. Well, that's whole other can of beans and magical underwear there.

I had a friend once who was trying to "help me see the light." He was telling me the LDS faith was the way to go. One of the things he told me was Joesph Smith, who I guess founded this church, was directed my God where he could find some golden plates with some instructions from God written on them. I told him "Wow! that's pretty amazing, where are these plates now, are they on display, can anyone go and see them?" He said no one really knows for sure where the plates are now, but that's not important..." To which I said "not important? you're kidding right? If God told me where to find some golden plates I'd be showing them to anyone I could find." Sounds pretty odd to me.

 

[Pacridge]

Ahhhhh.... Mormonism. Well, that's whole other can of beans and magical underwear there.

BTW what the heck are you talking about? Magical underwear? Have you been using too much white out today?

 

[shuamort]

BTW what the heck are you talking about? Magical underwear? Have you been using too much white out today?

Not enough. There really is a balance, ya know.

This is a plain white undergarment with four small symbolic marks sewn into it, at the right knee, the navel and each nipple. The patron is instructed that the garment represents the covering which God gave Adam and Eve to clothe their nakedness, and that the patron must wear such a garment at all times from then onward.

During their pre-endowment instructions, participants are told that if they are true and faithful to the covenants they will make in the ceremony, their "Garment of the Holy Priesthood "will be a shield, and a protection to you against the power of the destroyer until you have finished your work here on earth." Temple Mormons are also told that this garment must be worn throughout their lives and represents the garment given to Adam in the Garden of Eden.

I want mine with peek-a-boo lace!

 

[Alex]

I know that there is a God. We must know of him, worship him, and we must choose between him and the devil. After those of us that do choose him do, he helps us form an even greater belief in him.

Surely you must know that there is a God. If we know how emotions work, how come we as Mankind can't make our computers have emotions? God is perfect, Man is weak and knows not even a speck compared to what God knows.

Who is to say that someday computers will be able to have emotional feelings? If you told anyone one-hundred years ago that there would exist the things that do now, they would have told you that you were crazy. One-hundred years from now we could have emotional computers. Anything is possible with science.

 

[Alex]

The American Civil War was prophesied by the prophet Joseph Smith 29 years before it ever began. I doubt anyone of the false religions or an atheist could predict that. Did anyone of your fellow atheists predict World War I in 1885?
War would be poured out among all the world beginning at that time. War has always existed, but ever to the degree prophesied and later occurred? Never.

It does not prove that there is a god. How can you be sure that is is real anyway?

 

[Dogger807]

YOU TRY TO MAKE IT SOUND LIKE GOD DOES NOT ALLOW US OUR AGENCY. God does not stop every little thing the devil does. Life is a test to find God and obey him. If we had a PERFECT knowledge there would be no test. God does not start or cause evil. He only allows it so that we may decide between good and evil. There is opposition in all things.

YOU ONCE AGAIN ARE USING THE IDEA THAT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE KILL ALL THOSE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW. THIS IS NOT TRUE. From the beginning of our existence God ruled in his theocracy by delegating power to his prophets. In time man rebelled against God and formed his own false religions to gain power. Hence the beginning of the heathens. The heathen peoples would then plague their followers minds with the notion that all those who did not follow their religion should be killed. Hence once again the wars which you speak of where it was said, "They were evil they should be killed." God himself does not wish us to kill.

My point still stands... I didn't say anything about perfect knowledge. I didn't say anything about rationalizing the non action of an imaginary entity.

I said that the views of against atheism by religion are more conducive of a group striving to gain and maintain power over others than they are rational explanation of an all powerful but neglectant god.

The mythos of christianity is no better and no worse than any other mythos created by man. Impossible to disprove because of it's obscurity. Impossible to prove for lack of evidence.


Funny how theists always say "that group doesn't follow my religion." when points are made against religion. They pick and choose what they want to believe as if it proves the existance of their god or gods.

 

[janice]

What's the ACLU?

:2razz: